IDE channels malfunctioning? at DVinfo.net

Alex Taylor · May 2nd, 2003, 10:32 PM

This isn't directly related to editing, but there are a lot of technically-inclined people here so I thought I'd post it.

I got my new computer today, finally. I got it used from a web client of mine. When Purolator dropped it off though, the box was pretty beat up. When I took it out the only thing that looked damage was the front of the case which had broken off, and the CDRW drive had fallen off its rails. I fixed it up and put some duct tape on the front and it worked fine

But now, there's something screwed with the IDE channels. I have 4 devices hooked up: a CDRW, a DVD-ROM, and 2 40gig hard drives. When I start up the computer, sometimes it will only recognize the CDRW. I restart it and it might recognize the first hard drive with the OS on it, or sometimes it will partially recognize that hard drive but refuse to boot from it. It barely ever recognizes the other hard drive and the DVD-ROM drive. What the hell's going on?

Here's the configuration:

Primary Master: Phillips CDRW (this came with the computer)
Primary Slave: Samsung DVD-ROM drive
Secondary Master: IBM Deskstar 40gig (this came with the computer)
Secondary Slave: my Maxtor 40gig

I've filed a damage report with Purolator/USPS and emailed the guy about it. It's got insurance on it as well.

Thanks for any help!

Alex Knappenberger · May 2nd, 2003, 10:49 PM

Give me some more information, what motherboard is it?

I've seen this many times before, a lot of time it is simply because of the IDE cables themselfs, being cheap or whatever. I actually bought some rounded IDE cables at a computer show a while ago, and my harddrive didn't like it, and my computer never recognized it with them cables, so I put my old ones back on....thats probably not the case here though.

You have the jumpers set right, the cables are on tight, and everything is on the right channels right?

My uncle is particularly awesome at this kind of stuff, I myself can't give much helpful info over the phone or internet, I have to be there with the stuff in front of me, and then I can usually fix it in a snap. :D

Alex Taylor · May 2nd, 2003, 10:59 PM

Thanks :)

I know what you mean about having to be there, people barely ever learn from me because I usually do it for them!

Do you have a list of jumper settings handy? Isn't there one mode that automatically detecs its position?

Anyway, here's some more information:

Motherboard: Epox EP-8KTA3
Processor: AMD Athlon @ 1.00 GHz
RAM: 1.5GB
OS: WinXP Pro

Alex Knappenberger · May 2nd, 2003, 11:04 PM

Quite a very similar system to mine -- except I have a cheap motherboard and not nearly as much ram. :D

Yeah the "cable select" jumper sometimes does the job, but I only use it as a last resort...

Jumper settings vary on different hard drives/cdroms.

The jumpers are located on the back where you plug the IDE cable in.

Look for a diagram, basically you want your main HDD to be the Primary Master, and then your 2nd HDD to tbe the Primary Slave, and then your main CD drive to be the Secondary Master, and your 2nd CD drive to be the Secondary Slave...

If you have 2 masters or some crap like that, the computer will be confused and go like "wtf?!?".

Alex Taylor · May 2nd, 2003, 11:16 PM

Alright, I'll try that. I was going to try putting the hard drives on different IDE channels since it's better for editing, but the cables weren't long enough.

Alex Knappenberger · May 2nd, 2003, 11:30 PM

What do you mean?

You want to have both hard drives on the same Channel, the ATA100 (possibly 133, or in a bad case, 66), one. There is a Channel for the Harddrives and the CD-roms on motherboards, does it make a differnece, you ask? Big time...

Don Donatello · May 3rd, 2003, 01:02 AM

shouldn't the boot drive be on the primary channel ??

you need to get into SET UP ( during boot you hit ?? depends on manufacturer - some it's delete others F? , some tell you during boot sequence ) .. once inside go to the IDE channel and see what the boot sequence is .. most are primary 1st then 2ndary - you can change the order

now if it took a hard fall maybe a jumper on one of the devices is loose ? ide cable not snug ?

Alex Knappenberger · May 3rd, 2003, 01:11 AM

Nah, the boot sequence doesn't have anything to do with it not posting (detecting) the harddrives/cdrom drives. :D

Rob Lohman · May 3rd, 2003, 04:12 AM

If this is a new computer and it was delivered to you in that
condition I would not have accepted it. If it is that beaten up
how do you know your harddisk is in good condition? I mean
you are talking about a drive that fell off its railings and you]
have to use duct tape! I'm not surprised you are having troubles
with your system.....

Alex Taylor · May 3rd, 2003, 09:53 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : If this is a new computer and it was delivered to you in that
condition I would not have accepted it. If it is that beaten up
how do you know your harddisk is in good condition? I mean
you are talking about a drive that fell off its railings and you]
have to use duct tape! I'm not surprised you are having troubles
with your system..... -->>>

Rob,
The hard drive was fine, it was the CDRW that fell of its rails. And I used duct tape for the plastic front :P

I'm going to get in touch with him today, I think the insurance should hopefully cover some of this.

Ryan Beatson · May 4th, 2003, 06:18 AM

Hi all,

I am currently having problems with the IDE chains in my comp. Currently I have a 60 Gb HD running Windows XP Home as the Primary Master and a CD-ROM as the Primary Slave, I also have a 80 Gb Hd running as the Secondary Master and CD Burner as the Secondary Slave. My problem is that I can only run 3 of these at any one time, and I can run the 3 in different combinations on the IDE chains.

Can anyone help me out??

When I get this problem sorted then I will be editing on Premiere 6.0, but until then, there isn't much that I can do.

Cheers
Ryan Beatson

Alex Knappenberger · May 4th, 2003, 08:55 AM

Argh. You want both hard drives on the same channel.

You main hard drive is supposed to be Primary Master, and then the 2nd one is supposed to be Primary slave.

The secondary channel is for CD Drives -- ONLY. It doesn't run the ATA speed (either 66,100,133, deping on your motherboard) that your hard drives do, so it won't be nearly as fast.

Rob Lohman · May 4th, 2003, 03:38 PM

Alex,

Why do you think that the second channel cannot run devices
at their full speed? I know you have been assembling PC's etc.
for a while, so have I and I have never had this problem. What
does NOT work is mixing speeds. The IDE controller will take the
lowest speed and every device on that channel will operate
at that speed.

Anyway, I added a Promise ATA133 controller so that I have
2 more IDE channels. One of the advantages of the Promise
controller is that you CAN mix different devices and different
speeds without it effecting performance.

I do agree with you that you want your two harddisks on one
channel and the CD drive on the other. Personally I'd get a
Promise controller and put each device on its own channel to
be safe....

Alex Taylor · May 4th, 2003, 06:05 PM

Lots of good information in this post!

It turns out the IDE controller is the problem. It looks like I"ll be able to get the full claim for the computer, so I'm going to build myself another computer with the money. How much is this Promise controller?

Christopher Go · May 4th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Glad you got it sorted out, hope everything turns out even better with the new computer.

There are a variety of add on ATA controllers sporting ATA133 with or without RAID features. They average around $70 to $100 and include manufacturers like Adaptec, Highpoint Technology, and Promise, along with some others. But I would choose from those 3. Some are even cheaper. They allow you to throw in more devices but if you purchase a new motherboard you might very well have one with 4 IDE connectors (for support of up to 8 devices) and possibly even Serial ATA for when Serial ATA hard drives become available.

Although the boot sequence itself may not have been the problem, Don was right about checking the BIOS. Your devices should be listed there and if not then you already know you have a hardware based problem (if they are listed and the devices are fine, then I'd check for Windows problems and so on, in a process of elimination). The F2 or Delete key should get you in depending on the BIOS manufacturer of your motherboard. And the hard drive does not necessarily have to be the first, Windows is clever enough to search for the boot partition which may be on a SCSI controller for example with a CD burner and DVD-ROM on the Primary channels.

May 2nd, 2003, 10:32 PM	#1
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	IDE channels malfunctioning? This isn't directly related to editing, but there are a lot of technically-inclined people here so I thought I'd post it. I got my new computer today, finally. I got it used from a web client of mine. When Purolator dropped it off though, the box was pretty beat up. When I took it out the only thing that looked damage was the front of the case which had broken off, and the CDRW drive had fallen off its rails. I fixed it up and put some duct tape on the front and it worked fine But now, there's something screwed with the IDE channels. I have 4 devices hooked up: a CDRW, a DVD-ROM, and 2 40gig hard drives. When I start up the computer, sometimes it will only recognize the CDRW. I restart it and it might recognize the first hard drive with the OS on it, or sometimes it will partially recognize that hard drive but refuse to boot from it. It barely ever recognizes the other hard drive and the DVD-ROM drive. What the hell's going on? Here's the configuration: Primary Master: Phillips CDRW (this came with the computer) Primary Slave: Samsung DVD-ROM drive Secondary Master: IBM Deskstar 40gig (this came with the computer) Secondary Slave: my Maxtor 40gig I've filed a damage report with Purolator/USPS and emailed the guy about it. It's got insurance on it as well. Thanks for any help! __________________ alextaylor.org

May 2nd, 2003, 10:59 PM	#3
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	Thanks :) I know what you mean about having to be there, people barely ever learn from me because I usually do it for them! Do you have a list of jumper settings handy? Isn't there one mode that automatically detecs its position? Anyway, here's some more information: Motherboard: Epox EP-8KTA3 Processor: AMD Athlon @ 1.00 GHz RAM: 1.5GB OS: WinXP Pro __________________ alextaylor.org

May 2nd, 2003, 11:16 PM	#5
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	Alright, I'll try that. I was going to try putting the hard drives on different IDE channels since it's better for editing, but the cables weren't long enough. __________________ alextaylor.org

May 3rd, 2003, 04:12 AM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	If this is a new computer and it was delivered to you in that condition I would not have accepted it. If it is that beaten up how do you know your harddisk is in good condition? I mean you are talking about a drive that fell off its railings and you] have to use duct tape! I'm not surprised you are having troubles with your system..... __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 3rd, 2003, 09:53 AM	#10
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : If this is a new computer and it was delivered to you in that condition I would not have accepted it. If it is that beaten up how do you know your harddisk is in good condition? I mean you are talking about a drive that fell off its railings and you] have to use duct tape! I'm not surprised you are having troubles with your system..... -->>> Rob, The hard drive was fine, it was the CDRW that fell of its rails. And I used duct tape for the plastic front :P I'm going to get in touch with him today, I think the insurance should hopefully cover some of this. __________________ alextaylor.org

May 2nd, 2003, 10:49 PM	#2
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Give me some more information, what motherboard is it? I've seen this many times before, a lot of time it is simply because of the IDE cables themselfs, being cheap or whatever. I actually bought some rounded IDE cables at a computer show a while ago, and my harddrive didn't like it, and my computer never recognized it with them cables, so I put my old ones back on....thats probably not the case here though. You have the jumpers set right, the cables are on tight, and everything is on the right channels right? My uncle is particularly awesome at this kind of stuff, I myself can't give much helpful info over the phone or internet, I have to be there with the stuff in front of me, and then I can usually fix it in a snap. :D

May 2nd, 2003, 11:04 PM	#4
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Quite a very similar system to mine -- except I have a cheap motherboard and not nearly as much ram. :D Yeah the "cable select" jumper sometimes does the job, but I only use it as a last resort... Jumper settings vary on different hard drives/cdroms. The jumpers are located on the back where you plug the IDE cable in. Look for a diagram, basically you want your main HDD to be the Primary Master, and then your 2nd HDD to tbe the Primary Slave, and then your main CD drive to be the Secondary Master, and your 2nd CD drive to be the Secondary Slave... If you have 2 masters or some crap like that, the computer will be confused and go like "wtf?!?".

May 2nd, 2003, 11:30 PM	#6
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	What do you mean? You want to have both hard drives on the same Channel, the ATA100 (possibly 133, or in a bad case, 66), one. There is a Channel for the Harddrives and the CD-roms on motherboards, does it make a differnece, you ask? Big time...

May 3rd, 2003, 01:02 AM	#7
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	shouldn't the boot drive be on the primary channel ?? you need to get into SET UP ( during boot you hit ?? depends on manufacturer - some it's delete others F? , some tell you during boot sequence ) .. once inside go to the IDE channel and see what the boot sequence is .. most are primary 1st then 2ndary - you can change the order now if it took a hard fall maybe a jumper on one of the devices is loose ? ide cable not snug ?

May 3rd, 2003, 01:11 AM	#8
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Nah, the boot sequence doesn't have anything to do with it not posting (detecting) the harddrives/cdrom drives. :D

May 4th, 2003, 06:18 AM	#11
Ryan Beatson Tourist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bunbury, Western Australia, Australia Posts: 1	Hi all, I am currently having problems with the IDE chains in my comp. Currently I have a 60 Gb HD running Windows XP Home as the Primary Master and a CD-ROM as the Primary Slave, I also have a 80 Gb Hd running as the Secondary Master and CD Burner as the Secondary Slave. My problem is that I can only run 3 of these at any one time, and I can run the 3 in different combinations on the IDE chains. Can anyone help me out?? When I get this problem sorted then I will be editing on Premiere 6.0, but until then, there isn't much that I can do. Cheers Ryan Beatson

May 4th, 2003, 08:55 AM	#12
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Argh. You want both hard drives on the same channel. You main hard drive is supposed to be Primary Master, and then the 2nd one is supposed to be Primary slave. The secondary channel is for CD Drives -- ONLY. It doesn't run the ATA speed (either 66,100,133, deping on your motherboard) that your hard drives do, so it won't be nearly as fast.

May 4th, 2003, 03:38 PM	#13
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Alex, Why do you think that the second channel cannot run devices at their full speed? I know you have been assembling PC's etc. for a while, so have I and I have never had this problem. What does NOT work is mixing speeds. The IDE controller will take the lowest speed and every device on that channel will operate at that speed. Anyway, I added a Promise ATA133 controller so that I have 2 more IDE channels. One of the advantages of the Promise controller is that you CAN mix different devices and different speeds without it effecting performance. I do agree with you that you want your two harddisks on one channel and the CD drive on the other. Personally I'd get a Promise controller and put each device on its own channel to be safe.... __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 4th, 2003, 06:05 PM	#14
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	Lots of good information in this post! It turns out the IDE controller is the problem. It looks like I"ll be able to get the full claim for the computer, so I'm going to build myself another computer with the money. How much is this Promise controller? __________________ alextaylor.org

May 4th, 2003, 08:16 PM	#15
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	Glad you got it sorted out, hope everything turns out even better with the new computer. There are a variety of add on ATA controllers sporting ATA133 with or without RAID features. They average around $70 to $100 and include manufacturers like Adaptec, Highpoint Technology, and Promise, along with some others. But I would choose from those 3. Some are even cheaper. They allow you to throw in more devices but if you purchase a new motherboard you might very well have one with 4 IDE connectors (for support of up to 8 devices) and possibly even Serial ATA for when Serial ATA hard drives become available. Although the boot sequence itself may not have been the problem, Don was right about checking the BIOS. Your devices should be listed there and if not then you already know you have a hardware based problem (if they are listed and the devices are fine, then I'd check for Windows problems and so on, in a process of elimination). The F2 or Delete key should get you in depending on the BIOS manufacturer of your motherboard. And the hard drive does not necessarily have to be the first, Windows is clever enough to search for the boot partition which may be on a SCSI controller for example with a CD burner and DVD-ROM on the Primary channels.