pc for nle

Garret Ambrosio · April 24th, 2003, 08:21 PM

Alex, there are a few OS changes that will optimize your system for Video Processing and that's what I'm referring to. You would also focus differently on the video card selection, etc if you want "optimal" video processing. I mean, you may want to skip the ATI Radeon 9800, for a Matrox Parphelia (3 monitors, sweet) or maybe the All-in-wonder 9800. So it is a different approach from gaming or word processing. There are many options available when you build a box and your intentions of use, would help you make many of the decisions you make when spec-ing out the components. Like RAID would be overkill for most gaming, unless you are really looking to get that extra 2000 or more in 3DMark03, but is ideal for the videographer. 7200 RPM or faster drives are useless really to a Word Processor, Excel type person, but is also a great deal to the video system.

As you may know the most expensive componenets don't always mean the best for you. I also forgot to mention that a good Video System may wan tto include a $10,000 Genlock card, which is totally useless for anyone but the hardcore video editor.

And lastly...you slapping a $30 OHCI card on your box, makes your system a Dell j/k :D a system in 20? How do you that when XP takes up atleast 20 minutes to install and configure from a scratch hard drive, partioning, etc.? Not mention the defrags and the software settings and burnins?
That's that including briding the switches, thermal paste and that darn oversized heat sink install? (I swear it feels like I'm going to split the mobo in half each time I install one of those). I think it takes 20 minutes to use those darn 6 disk boot for XP to install. Are you exaggerating, just a little? :P

Garret Ambrosio · April 24th, 2003, 08:39 PM

Are you using XP Pro, Corporate? Or the regular "activate" version. I've had the hardest time trying to create a bootable XP Pro Corp. I had bootsrap loaded and some of the othe rfiles bu the darn thing just would not work. I'll try Nero one of these days to see if it wizard me into a bootable disk. My "cool" system has 4 IDE HDD's 1 SCSI (Swap, porn, etc. :p) Sony DRU500a, Liteon 52X, Enermax 480, AMD XP2400 OC to 2700(2.16) 1024 GB RAM 400 DDR (samsung) Asus A7N8X+ Deluxe, with the "alienware"-like case, along with Neon and stuff took me 1.5 hours from build out to defrag of OS drive. Mostly took time updating XP and getting new drivers. I use a Dewalt 9V on low torque and low speed to do the screws...

Alex Knappenberger · April 24th, 2003, 08:48 PM

Rob Wilson - Here it is. I added it up, just to see, and it came in well under the Gateway price. Better stuff too, if you ask me. I went overboard on some items too, like the nice Enermax powersupply. No OS is listed here, since Newegg doesn't have it, so add like $100 for that...

I wish I could afford this. :D

ANTEC Performance PLUSVIEW Model PLUSVIEW1000AMG- with Side Window Snap-On Fan Clips Retail ***No Power Supply*** - $75

2 WESTERN DIGITAL 200GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD2000JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY - $418

Logitech Cordless Navigator Duo (Keyboard & Mouse) - RETAIL - $65

2 SimpleTech (Simple Technologies) 512MB DDR PC2700 Major Brand Chip - OEM - $116

ENCORE ENF656-ESW-NDPR/ ENF656-PCIE-NDPR 56K V.92 INTERNAL PCI FAX / MODEM/ (NetoDragon) - RETAIL - $8

2 AOC 18" LM800 LCD Monitor Retail - $898

ABIT BH7,Intel 845PE chipset support P4 Socket 478,SATA,4phase PWM,USB 2.0 ATX motherboard Retail - $92

Gigafast 10/100 PCI LAN Adapter, Model# EE100-AXP -RETAIL - $6

ENERMAX EG465P-VE(FM). 431W Power supply for AMD K7 & Pentium4 - $82

Intel Pentium 4 / 3.06GHz 512k 478 Pin Processor HT Technology 533 MHz FSB Retail ETA 4/20/03 - $391

Microsoft Office XP Small Business DSP with Service Pack 2 - OEM - $186

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 (Firewire) - RETAIL - $112

Creative Labs Inspire 5.1 5200 - RETAIL - $73

ATI OEM SAPPHIRE RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB DVI/TV 8X AGP - $425

Subtotal » $2,947.00
Shipping and Handling Charge » $48.00
Grand Total » $ 2,995.00

:D Hopefully I didn't miss something. I'd take that system and save myself over $1000, anyday, plus i'd have the satisfaction of building it myself, and knowing the hardware inside is better then what gateway puts in their systems.

Opps, I forgot the CD drives, oh well, you get the idea. :D

Scott Osborne · April 24th, 2003, 09:08 PM

You guys really shouldnt scimp on quality RAM like that. Saving a few bucks isnt really worth the headache and downtime caused by cheap unreliable RAM.....Dont get me wrong I am not saying that all RAM that isnt expensive is crap..But there is something to be said for high quality RAM such as Corsair or Kingston. I myself only use Corsair and I have never had a bad stick. Is it worth the extra money?? To me it is I have had serveral "Economy" Sticks go bad on me.

Also Try using some faster PC3200 stuff Video editing is one of those tasks that uses the speed of your bus to its fullest. Using PC2700 Ram just creates another bottleneck. In fact you may want to try one of the new Intel 875 "Canterwood" motherboards as there Dual Channel DDR RAM subsystem is much faster than a single channel DDR motherboard such as the 845PE.

If your not tech saavy and your going to be using this PC to make money with your probably buying something pre-configured. You will avoid a lot of headaches as you will find Video hardware and software is probably the most picky and selective stuff you can put on a box. For example It took me about 3 different CPU and Motherboard configs before I found a system that is solid and reliable with a Matrox RT2500. Building a video rig is a little bit more complex than building a gaming rig.

If you do chose to build your own research everything that you buy. Read the forums talk to other owners find all of the quirks. Read and read until you know everything about the components before you buy. try some site like www.tomshardware.com or www.anandtech.com theres a wealth of info on these sites and there forums are chocked full of people who can help you.

Good Luck and Happy Rig Building

Stephen Sobel · April 25th, 2003, 04:26 PM

Ok, this has been very helpful. I've gotten some good comments about building your own versus buying an already built pc. There have been some helpful comments about Dell and Alienware.

I noticed no one has commented about Velocity Micro. Has anyone out there heard any comments or feedback about them?

Scott Osborne · April 25th, 2003, 05:56 PM

The Intel 845PE Supports a 133Mhz FSB Quad pumped to 533Mhz.

That second coment is just a out and out lie. Toms has made some comments that are great about the Opteron just the otherday.

The Intel architecture is the way to go when it comes to video editing as many apps are optimized for SSE or SSE2 instruction sets.

If you are getting a Matrox RTX.100 I strongly suggest staying away from AMD as the Via and the Nvidia chipsets have some limiting factors when it comes to how the Southbridge negates control to the PCI bus. Dont belive me? check out the Matrox User forums

Stephen Sobel · April 25th, 2003, 07:20 PM

Can we get back to my original point of this thread? On the part of my question not yet addressed, does anyone have experience with Velocity Micro?

Garret Ambrosio · April 25th, 2003, 07:27 PM

Guys his price on the RAM is not really cheap. I bought two 512MB 400DDR Samsung chip sticks for $80 a pop. Ah...this is Intel stuff...I haven't touched Intel since the PIII 1.13 GHZ...But this system is using DDR no that RDRAM crap, right?

Scott Osborne · April 25th, 2003, 09:41 PM

I am not saying the prices are cheap...I just saying that he is suggesting a no name brand which myself and many others think is a bad idea for such a mission critical task.

RDRAM with the Intel 850 was the flagship just a couple of weeks ago. If you look at places like gateway thats what they sell. RDRAM is good for video editing and other power hungry apps. However its price compared to peformance is where RDRAm fails.

As for Velocity Mirco I have never heard anyone mention them...Maybe you should try to search this forum or try the forums at www.digitalvideoediting.com www.anandtech.com forums might have some info about them as well

Happy Hunting

Mark Richman · April 25th, 2003, 09:56 PM

I use only firewire for my capturing. is there some good reasons to buy a capture card if I am shooting in DV?

Heres the system I slapped together:
2.4 amd
asus nforce2 mboard
1 gig corsair memory
80 gig OS harddrive
80 gig data drive
240 gig raid 0 capture drives
sony dvd burner
antec 380 power supply
matrox dual display card
twin 19" crt's
Windows XP Pro
Vegas 4

Do I need a capture card? Would it help me?

Thanks
Mark

Garret Ambrosio · April 26th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Only if your CPU sucks! Well half right, the capture card can give you real time features, it can help assure smooth playback if your CPU is under a great load or slow as heck. Basically the chip on the capture card will assume some of the CPU's rendering, video duties. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm looking to pickup a MPEG-2 card and see if my DVD renders would be quicker.

Rob Wilson · May 9th, 2003, 09:02 AM

Well, did it! Ordered all the parts and slapped them together. Took about an hour and a half to assemble and start loading. Minor timing problem with the RAM slowed me down for a day while I researched with the motherboard and RAM manufactures knowledge bases.
Now it's loaded up and running. Sooo, did I save any money? Total cost was about $4300 including all shipping. What this doesn't include is the approximately 8 hrs I spent selecting the components. The Gateway system that it was modeled after runs $4500 but includes some software (that I didn't need). This system has several upgrades from the Gateway including, better quaily monitors, faster RAM, much more flexible motherboard (if I want to overclock), third hard drive for system files, custom keyboard (premiere keys) custom mouse (built in jog/shuttle control) and improved cooling (mulitple fans with speed control). Initial impression editing: WOW, this thing screams. Only benchmark test I've done is the PassMark at 370.
So the bottom line is I'm gald I took the plunge, but of course I've just started using the system and the whole lack of "tech support" issue could come back to bite me. I've got a system that is working great and I'll be comfortable upgrading it when the time comes because I know the machine.

Guess Alex is right, not a huge savings but a system that is right for me.

Completed system specs:

ABIT IC7G Motherboard
Intel 3.0 w 800 Mhz FSB
1 Gig (2 512 sticks) of Kingston HyperX 3200 Ram
40 Gig Western Digital Caviar system drive
2 200 Gig Western Digital Caviar Video Drives
Soundblaster Audiology Sound Card
Matrox Parhiellia 128 Video Card
2 Viewsonic 19” Flat Panels
Matrox RTX100
Windows XP Pro OS
Adobe Premiere 6.5

Mark Richman · May 9th, 2003, 02:49 PM

Anyone use these cards to capture with?

How did it do?

Do you recommend Matrox instead?

Just curious,

Mark

April 24th, 2003, 08:21 PM	#16
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Alex, there are a few OS changes that will optimize your system for Video Processing and that's what I'm referring to. You would also focus differently on the video card selection, etc if you want "optimal" video processing. I mean, you may want to skip the ATI Radeon 9800, for a Matrox Parphelia (3 monitors, sweet) or maybe the All-in-wonder 9800. So it is a different approach from gaming or word processing. There are many options available when you build a box and your intentions of use, would help you make many of the decisions you make when spec-ing out the components. Like RAID would be overkill for most gaming, unless you are really looking to get that extra 2000 or more in 3DMark03, but is ideal for the videographer. 7200 RPM or faster drives are useless really to a Word Processor, Excel type person, but is also a great deal to the video system. As you may know the most expensive componenets don't always mean the best for you. I also forgot to mention that a good Video System may wan tto include a $10,000 Genlock card, which is totally useless for anyone but the hardcore video editor. And lastly...you slapping a $30 OHCI card on your box, makes your system a Dell j/k :D a system in 20? How do you that when XP takes up atleast 20 minutes to install and configure from a scratch hard drive, partioning, etc.? Not mention the defrags and the software settings and burnins? That's that including briding the switches, thermal paste and that darn oversized heat sink install? (I swear it feels like I'm going to split the mobo in half each time I install one of those). I think it takes 20 minutes to use those darn 6 disk boot for XP to install. Are you exaggerating, just a little? :P __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 24th, 2003, 08:39 PM	#17
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Are you using XP Pro, Corporate? Or the regular "activate" version. I've had the hardest time trying to create a bootable XP Pro Corp. I had bootsrap loaded and some of the othe rfiles bu the darn thing just would not work. I'll try Nero one of these days to see if it wizard me into a bootable disk. My "cool" system has 4 IDE HDD's 1 SCSI (Swap, porn, etc. :p) Sony DRU500a, Liteon 52X, Enermax 480, AMD XP2400 OC to 2700(2.16) 1024 GB RAM 400 DDR (samsung) Asus A7N8X+ Deluxe, with the "alienware"-like case, along with Neon and stuff took me 1.5 hours from build out to defrag of OS drive. Mostly took time updating XP and getting new drivers. I use a Dewalt 9V on low torque and low speed to do the screws... __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 24th, 2003, 09:08 PM	#19
Scott Osborne Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 116	You guys really shouldnt scimp on quality RAM like that. Saving a few bucks isnt really worth the headache and downtime caused by cheap unreliable RAM.....Dont get me wrong I am not saying that all RAM that isnt expensive is crap..But there is something to be said for high quality RAM such as Corsair or Kingston. I myself only use Corsair and I have never had a bad stick. Is it worth the extra money?? To me it is I have had serveral "Economy" Sticks go bad on me. Also Try using some faster PC3200 stuff Video editing is one of those tasks that uses the speed of your bus to its fullest. Using PC2700 Ram just creates another bottleneck. In fact you may want to try one of the new Intel 875 "Canterwood" motherboards as there Dual Channel DDR RAM subsystem is much faster than a single channel DDR motherboard such as the 845PE. If your not tech saavy and your going to be using this PC to make money with your probably buying something pre-configured. You will avoid a lot of headaches as you will find Video hardware and software is probably the most picky and selective stuff you can put on a box. For example It took me about 3 different CPU and Motherboard configs before I found a system that is solid and reliable with a Matrox RT2500. Building a video rig is a little bit more complex than building a gaming rig. If you do chose to build your own research everything that you buy. Read the forums talk to other owners find all of the quirks. Read and read until you know everything about the components before you buy. try some site like www.tomshardware.com or www.anandtech.com theres a wealth of info on these sites and there forums are chocked full of people who can help you. Good Luck and Happy Rig Building __________________ Scott Osborne Infinite Video Productions

April 25th, 2003, 05:56 PM	#21
Scott Osborne Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 116	The Intel 845PE Supports a 133Mhz FSB Quad pumped to 533Mhz. That second coment is just a out and out lie. Toms has made some comments that are great about the Opteron just the otherday. The Intel architecture is the way to go when it comes to video editing as many apps are optimized for SSE or SSE2 instruction sets. If you are getting a Matrox RTX.100 I strongly suggest staying away from AMD as the Via and the Nvidia chipsets have some limiting factors when it comes to how the Southbridge negates control to the PCI bus. Dont belive me? check out the Matrox User forums __________________ Scott Osborne Infinite Video Productions

April 25th, 2003, 07:27 PM	#23
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Guys his price on the RAM is not really cheap. I bought two 512MB 400DDR Samsung chip sticks for $80 a pop. Ah...this is Intel stuff...I haven't touched Intel since the PIII 1.13 GHZ...But this system is using DDR no that RDRAM crap, right? __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 24th, 2003, 08:48 PM	#18
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Rob Wilson - Here it is. I added it up, just to see, and it came in well under the Gateway price. Better stuff too, if you ask me. I went overboard on some items too, like the nice Enermax powersupply. No OS is listed here, since Newegg doesn't have it, so add like $100 for that... I wish I could afford this. :D ANTEC Performance PLUSVIEW Model PLUSVIEW1000AMG- with Side Window Snap-On Fan Clips Retail *No Power Supply* - $75 2 WESTERN DIGITAL 200GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD2000JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY - $418 Logitech Cordless Navigator Duo (Keyboard & Mouse) - RETAIL - $65 2 SimpleTech (Simple Technologies) 512MB DDR PC2700 Major Brand Chip - OEM - $116 ENCORE ENF656-ESW-NDPR/ ENF656-PCIE-NDPR 56K V.92 INTERNAL PCI FAX / MODEM/ (NetoDragon) - RETAIL - $8 2 AOC 18" LM800 LCD Monitor Retail - $898 ABIT BH7,Intel 845PE chipset support P4 Socket 478,SATA,4phase PWM,USB 2.0 ATX motherboard Retail - $92 Gigafast 10/100 PCI LAN Adapter, Model# EE100-AXP -RETAIL - $6 ENERMAX EG465P-VE(FM). 431W Power supply for AMD K7 & Pentium4 - $82 Intel Pentium 4 / 3.06GHz 512k 478 Pin Processor HT Technology 533 MHz FSB Retail ETA 4/20/03 - $391 Microsoft Office XP Small Business DSP with Service Pack 2 - OEM - $186 Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 (Firewire) - RETAIL - $112 Creative Labs Inspire 5.1 5200 - RETAIL - $73 ATI OEM SAPPHIRE RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB DVI/TV 8X AGP - $425 Subtotal » $2,947.00 Shipping and Handling Charge » $48.00 Grand Total » $ 2,995.00 :D Hopefully I didn't miss something. I'd take that system and save myself over $1000, anyday, plus i'd have the satisfaction of building it myself, and knowing the hardware inside is better then what gateway puts in their systems. Opps, I forgot the CD drives, oh well, you get the idea. :D

April 25th, 2003, 04:26 PM	#20
Stephen Sobel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 408	Ok, this has been very helpful. I've gotten some good comments about building your own versus buying an already built pc. There have been some helpful comments about Dell and Alienware. I noticed no one has commented about Velocity Micro. Has anyone out there heard any comments or feedback about them?

April 25th, 2003, 07:20 PM	#22
Stephen Sobel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 408	Can we get back to my original point of this thread? On the part of my question not yet addressed, does anyone have experience with Velocity Micro?

April 25th, 2003, 09:41 PM	#24
Scott Osborne Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 116	I am not saying the prices are cheap...I just saying that he is suggesting a no name brand which myself and many others think is a bad idea for such a mission critical task. RDRAM with the Intel 850 was the flagship just a couple of weeks ago. If you look at places like gateway thats what they sell. RDRAM is good for video editing and other power hungry apps. However its price compared to peformance is where RDRAm fails. As for Velocity Mirco I have never heard anyone mention them...Maybe you should try to search this forum or try the forums at www.digitalvideoediting.com www.anandtech.com forums might have some info about them as well Happy Hunting __________________ Scott Osborne Infinite Video Productions

April 25th, 2003, 09:56 PM	#25
Mark Richman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sarasota Posts: 79	Computer question I use only firewire for my capturing. is there some good reasons to buy a capture card if I am shooting in DV? Heres the system I slapped together: 2.4 amd asus nforce2 mboard 1 gig corsair memory 80 gig OS harddrive 80 gig data drive 240 gig raid 0 capture drives sony dvd burner antec 380 power supply matrox dual display card twin 19" crt's Windows XP Pro Vegas 4 Do I need a capture card? Would it help me? Thanks Mark __________________ Green Novice turning Yellow Pro Soon to be Ripe - So stand back!

April 26th, 2003, 10:10 AM	#26
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Only if your CPU sucks! Well half right, the capture card can give you real time features, it can help assure smooth playback if your CPU is under a great load or slow as heck. Basically the chip on the capture card will assume some of the CPU's rendering, video duties. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm looking to pickup a MPEG-2 card and see if my DVD renders would be quicker. __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

May 9th, 2003, 09:02 AM	#27
Rob Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 473	Follow-up Well, did it! Ordered all the parts and slapped them together. Took about an hour and a half to assemble and start loading. Minor timing problem with the RAM slowed me down for a day while I researched with the motherboard and RAM manufactures knowledge bases. Now it's loaded up and running. Sooo, did I save any money? Total cost was about $4300 including all shipping. What this doesn't include is the approximately 8 hrs I spent selecting the components. The Gateway system that it was modeled after runs $4500 but includes some software (that I didn't need). This system has several upgrades from the Gateway including, better quaily monitors, faster RAM, much more flexible motherboard (if I want to overclock), third hard drive for system files, custom keyboard (premiere keys) custom mouse (built in jog/shuttle control) and improved cooling (mulitple fans with speed control). Initial impression editing: WOW, this thing screams. Only benchmark test I've done is the PassMark at 370. So the bottom line is I'm gald I took the plunge, but of course I've just started using the system and the whole lack of "tech support" issue could come back to bite me. I've got a system that is working great and I'll be comfortable upgrading it when the time comes because I know the machine. Guess Alex is right, not a huge savings but a system that is right for me. Completed system specs: ABIT IC7G Motherboard Intel 3.0 w 800 Mhz FSB 1 Gig (2 512 sticks) of Kingston HyperX 3200 Ram 40 Gig Western Digital Caviar system drive 2 200 Gig Western Digital Caviar Video Drives Soundblaster Audiology Sound Card Matrox Parhiellia 128 Video Card 2 Viewsonic 19” Flat Panels Matrox RTX100 Windows XP Pro OS Adobe Premiere 6.5

May 9th, 2003, 02:49 PM	#28
Mark Richman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sarasota Posts: 79	ATI All In Wonder Card Anyone use these cards to capture with? How did it do? Do you recommend Matrox instead? Just curious, Mark __________________ Green Novice turning Yellow Pro Soon to be Ripe - So stand back!