Windows Vista – Not yet

Gary Bettan · February 5th, 2007, 10:50 AM

Over here at Videoguys.com getting lots of calls & emails about Vista and NLE. We're taking the following position for now which we've posted on our systems recommendtations page http://www.videoguys.com/system.htm :

Windows Vista – Not yet – wait for 64 bit drivers.

Microsoft has finally shipped their much awaited and hyped next OS – Vista. For Digital Videographers we have one piece of advice: Do Not Upgrade (Yet)

Here are our top reasons why we feel you MUST WAIT before upgrading or migrating to Vista

1. Wait for certified Vista 64 bit drivers for your software and hardware. We see no reason or advantage at all for upgrading to the 32 bit version of Vista. It eats up resources and at best you will get the same performance you already have under WinXP. Once we have 64bit software and drivers to offer you, we will begin recommending Vista
2. Vista has too many flavors, and we have no idea which one will offer the best value and performance for video editing. You don’t want to have to upgrade to a more expensive version in a few months, and you don’t want to overpay for the more expensive flavors if you don’t need it.
3. Vista, video cards and graphics drivers. One of the coolest new features about Vista is the Aero display technology that allow you to see and work with multiple windows in 3D space. Very cool! But what will that do for video editing? I’m concerned it will steal resources and slow us down. We recommend waiting until we can recommend the right optimized graphics drivers and settings for you.

There is no doubt that some time this year, probably early summer after the first Service Packs have been released we will change our tune. At first we’ll tell you to proceed with caution, but give it a try – especially once we get Vista certified version of our software. But I don’t think you’ll see us giving it our top recommendation until it can deliver on the full promise of 64 bit computing. Then there will be no turning back.

Down the road Vista will allow us to take full advantage of multiple CPU cores, utilization of 4,6,8 or more GBs of RAM and even multiple graphic cards running multiple HD displays. Eventually we’ll see new NLE software GUIs and interfaces that tap into the Aero technology to make editing even easier and more productive. We’re just not there yet. Give it time. By this time next year I think we’ll have it all – and more!!

Gary

Dan Keaton · February 5th, 2007, 07:21 PM

Nice advice.

Robert M Wright · February 14th, 2007, 10:52 AM

I usually wait at least a year before installing any new Microsoft product.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · February 14th, 2007, 11:32 AM

Is it possible to use the Aero technology without using the ugly Aero theme? Whenever I get my hands on a Windows machine I always switch the display settings back to the "Classic" theme.

On top of the above, I find translucent windows to be a pointless gimmick, one that I imagine needlessly eats computing power.

Meryem Ersoz · February 14th, 2007, 12:11 PM

wow, gary, thanks for the advice. i was just about to ask this very question...the screwy five-edition release of vista has me completely confused as to which version to purchase, now that our computers are switched to intel-based macs...

but if i had an immediate need, let's just say, which one *would* i be best served by purchasing? i have a pending project which, if the contract gets signed may require an .avi output, and i was thinking about buying vista and a cheapie PC-based NLE, for the purposes of cross-platform compatibility. i don't think it will need 64-bit processing.

Rob Lohman · February 15th, 2007, 05:35 AM

Robert: yes you can disable it, but I think it's the first 'new' Windows GUI that actually looks nice (I'm running XP in the classic look as well). It doesn't really eat resources since all the work for it is being done on your graphics card which would otherwise not be doing much else. It might draw a bit more power due to this (but tests so far were not able to really confirm this), but you should not experience any slow downs or more resource use due to this.

Also keep in mind that Vista caches and pre-allocates a lot more than previous Windows versions. So it appears to use a lot more memory when in reality it will give portions of it up when you start using programs that require more memory.

Meryem: see http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...ns/choose.mspx to help you decide. I would ignore Home Basic. So that leaves you with Home Premium, Business or Ultimate (in order of price). I think Home Premium has what most people need. Business might be nice for that full system backup feature, but I haven't checked that out myself. Ultimate is probably overkill for most (unless you want that backup feature but also want Media Center for example).

Meryem Ersoz · February 15th, 2007, 08:44 AM

thanks for your help, rob. that's exactly the info i needed. home premium oughta work. i can see the efficiencies of 2-tiered price structuring, but 5 is just odd.

George Ellis · February 15th, 2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Lohman

Meryem: see http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...ns/choose.mspx to help you decide. I would ignore Home Basic. So that leaves you with Home Premium, Business or Ultimate (in order of price). I think Home Premium has what most people need. Business might be nice for that full system backup feature, but I haven't checked that out myself. Ultimate is probably overkill for most (unless you want that backup feature but also want Media Center for example).

With Ultimate, you get a free Texas Hold'em Poker Game ;) That should be reason enough, right?

The ultimate decider is, "do you use that system to make money?" If so, don't convert until your money-making software says they support Vista. If you have free time to experiment, feel free.

I have Vista booting on my Render drive so I can test. Just not ready to switch my main OS yet. Not everything has been tested.

Jay Fisk · March 12th, 2007, 12:00 AM

Ever wondered how MIG, HDCP, EVR, PVP and AACS were inter-related?

http://badvista.fsf.org/blog/images/Slide15.jpg

Yeah.... it's for real.

George Ellis · March 12th, 2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Fisk

Ever wondered how MIG, HDCP, EVR, PVP and AACS were inter-related?

http://badvista.fsf.org/blog/images/Slide15.jpg

Yeah.... it's for real.

This is a slide that shows how to run through the layers of an OS. Parts of it are missing, in the wrong place, and mislabeled. It is also not a Microsoft slide. Here is how MS would label it http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms797619.aspx

Not sure what the point is. If it is about a conspiracy, this is not the slide that shows one. This maze was not created by Microsoft. The studios created this mess. And the site linked hates Vista. Like they care as their real motto is ABM - Anything But Microsoft.

Jay Fisk · March 12th, 2007, 06:50 AM

It's 100% authentic, direct from Microsoft - Here's the whole briefing:

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...6_WinHEC05.ppt

You're correct though, it's jam-packed with errors and omissions - mostly intentional considering the subject matter. Ingenious disinformation ya?

But definately suitable for framing - plotting to Iris now.

George Ellis · March 12th, 2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Fisk

It's 100% authentic, direct from Microsoft - Here's the whole briefing:

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...6_WinHEC05.ppt

You're correct though, it's jam-packed with errors and omissions - mostly intentional considering the subject matter. Ingenious disinformation ya?

But definately suitable for framing - plotting to Iris now.

Hmmm... Last time I saw Dave Marsh present the Longhorn WDDM was in 2004. That is his slide then. Then it did not include all the rest of it. That kernel stub was supposed to move to the user mode. Geez. HDMI was not part of the spec then either. It WAS so much simplier before all this required content protection garbage had to be put in.

Oh, and you can believe what you want, but this is compliance with Hollywood. Apple has to do the same thing in their next OS.

Marco Wagner · March 12th, 2007, 04:35 PM

Currently running 64bit XP Pro (based off of Server 2003 code) - With ALL 64bit drivers and a nice set of 64bit software now. Premiere (32bit) runs just as fast, Windows x64 runs faster than 32bit XP or Vista. Why wait for more hardware power and eye candy drivers, go XP 64bit...

Cary Lee · March 23rd, 2007, 12:45 AM

I agree..I just go rid of my 32bit xp and switched to 64bit...haven't really played with it yet...but so far...seems a lot more stable than the 32bit and starts up the computer faster than before.

Greg Harris · March 27th, 2007, 01:04 PM

When's this coming out?

February 5th, 2007, 10:50 AM	#1
Gary Bettan Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glen Cove, NY Posts: 758	Windows Vista – Not yet – wait for 64 bit drivers. Over here at Videoguys.com getting lots of calls & emails about Vista and NLE. We're taking the following position for now which we've posted on our systems recommendtations page http://www.videoguys.com/system.htm : Windows Vista – Not yet – wait for 64 bit drivers. Microsoft has finally shipped their much awaited and hyped next OS – Vista. For Digital Videographers we have one piece of advice: Do Not Upgrade (Yet) Here are our top reasons why we feel you MUST WAIT before upgrading or migrating to Vista 1. Wait for certified Vista 64 bit drivers for your software and hardware. We see no reason or advantage at all for upgrading to the 32 bit version of Vista. It eats up resources and at best you will get the same performance you already have under WinXP. Once we have 64bit software and drivers to offer you, we will begin recommending Vista 2. Vista has too many flavors, and we have no idea which one will offer the best value and performance for video editing. You don’t want to have to upgrade to a more expensive version in a few months, and you don’t want to overpay for the more expensive flavors if you don’t need it. 3. Vista, video cards and graphics drivers. One of the coolest new features about Vista is the Aero display technology that allow you to see and work with multiple windows in 3D space. Very cool! But what will that do for video editing? I’m concerned it will steal resources and slow us down. We recommend waiting until we can recommend the right optimized graphics drivers and settings for you. There is no doubt that some time this year, probably early summer after the first Service Packs have been released we will change our tune. At first we’ll tell you to proceed with caution, but give it a try – especially once we get Vista certified version of our software. But I don’t think you’ll see us giving it our top recommendation until it can deliver on the full promise of 64 bit computing. Then there will be no turning back. Down the road Vista will allow us to take full advantage of multiple CPU cores, utilization of 4,6,8 or more GBs of RAM and even multiple graphic cards running multiple HD displays. Eventually we’ll see new NLE software GUIs and interfaces that tap into the Aero technology to make editing even easier and more productive. We’re just not there yet. Give it time. By this time next year I think we’ll have it all – and more!! Gary __________________ Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF

February 5th, 2007, 07:21 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Nice advice. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

February 14th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#4
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Is it possible to use the Aero technology without using the ugly Aero theme? Whenever I get my hands on a Windows machine I always switch the display settings back to the "Classic" theme. On top of the above, I find translucent windows to be a pointless gimmick, one that I imagine needlessly eats computing power. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 15th, 2007, 05:35 AM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Robert: yes you can disable it, but I think it's the first 'new' Windows GUI that actually looks nice (I'm running XP in the classic look as well). It doesn't really eat resources since all the work for it is being done on your graphics card which would otherwise not be doing much else. It might draw a bit more power due to this (but tests so far were not able to really confirm this), but you should not experience any slow downs or more resource use due to this. Also keep in mind that Vista caches and pre-allocates a lot more than previous Windows versions. So it appears to use a lot more memory when in reality it will give portions of it up when you start using programs that require more memory. Meryem: see http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...ns/choose.mspx to help you decide. I would ignore Home Basic. So that leaves you with Home Premium, Business or Ultimate (in order of price). I think Home Premium has what most people need. Business might be nice for that full system backup feature, but I haven't checked that out myself. Ultimate is probably overkill for most (unless you want that backup feature but also want Media Center for example). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 12th, 2007, 12:00 AM	#9
Jay Fisk Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: CSL BCS MX Posts: 67	Vista DRM Flowchart.... Ever wondered how MIG, HDCP, EVR, PVP and AACS were inter-related? http://badvista.fsf.org/blog/images/Slide15.jpg Yeah.... it's for real.

February 14th, 2007, 10:52 AM	#3
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	I usually wait at least a year before installing any new Microsoft product.

February 14th, 2007, 12:11 PM	#5
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	wow, gary, thanks for the advice. i was just about to ask this very question...the screwy five-edition release of vista has me completely confused as to which version to purchase, now that our computers are switched to intel-based macs... but if i had an immediate need, let's just say, which one would i be best served by purchasing? i have a pending project which, if the contract gets signed may require an .avi output, and i was thinking about buying vista and a cheapie PC-based NLE, for the purposes of cross-platform compatibility. i don't think it will need 64-bit processing.

February 15th, 2007, 08:44 AM	#7
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	thanks for your help, rob. that's exactly the info i needed. home premium oughta work. i can see the efficiencies of 2-tiered price structuring, but 5 is just odd.

March 12th, 2007, 06:50 AM	#11
Jay Fisk Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: CSL BCS MX Posts: 67	It's 100% authentic, direct from Microsoft - Here's the whole briefing: http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...6_WinHEC05.ppt You're correct though, it's jam-packed with errors and omissions - mostly intentional considering the subject matter. Ingenious disinformation ya? But definately suitable for framing - plotting to Iris now.

March 12th, 2007, 04:35 PM	#13
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	64bit XP Murders Vista Currently running 64bit XP Pro (based off of Server 2003 code) - With ALL 64bit drivers and a nice set of 64bit software now. Premiere (32bit) runs just as fast, Windows x64 runs faster than 32bit XP or Vista. Why wait for more hardware power and eye candy drivers, go XP 64bit... __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

March 23rd, 2007, 12:45 AM	#14
Cary Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood USA Posts: 128	I agree..I just go rid of my 32bit xp and switched to 64bit...haven't really played with it yet...but so far...seems a lot more stable than the 32bit and starts up the computer faster than before.

March 27th, 2007, 01:04 PM	#15
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	When's this coming out?