addressing amd athlon users... at DVinfo.net

Adi Head · April 4th, 2003, 05:31 AM

seems i can save money if i buy an amd athlon based pc for editing rather than an intel based one, as originally planned. could use that left over cash for more storage space.

can anyone familiar with amd processors comment on their experience.

i'm planning to run either xpress dv 3.5 or vegas 4. i know avid doesn't support systems using amd processors, but apparently there are many who run their xpress dv on amd machines with no problems.

i have posted a similar message on the avid forum, but would like to hear from you guys as well.

thanks.

Christopher Go · April 4th, 2003, 06:00 AM

Hey Adi, I've built and used both Intel and AMD machines for a variety of purposes. One difference was the heat that the AMD machines put out which meant you'd have to have better cooling whether in the heatsink, fan, or both. This can mean some noise. However, this has changed with the higher clocked Pentium IVs so this should no longer be an issue.

In regards to compatability I have had no problems with my dual AMD machine running Avid Xpress DV 3.5. Might want to follow the specs from turnkey dealers who also build AMD machines. The processor isn't as important for compatability as the chipset of the motherboard you are using. For example, I'm sure you've heard that VIA based chipsets have given some people problems but then again lots of people run VIA based motherboards based on discussions in the Avid forums.

In summary, go for AMD if you think it can save you some cash. Otherwise it shouldn't matter so long as the remainder of your hardware is in spec with the NLE you're using.

K. Forman · April 4th, 2003, 07:15 AM

AMDs do put out more heat, but you do not need a high dollar fan. AMDs stock fan cools better than most aftermarkets will, and without the extra noise. I found this out too late, and ended up with a Thermal Take that sounds like a jet turbine. Next time :)

As far as AMD goes, I'll never use anything else. This is the 4th machine that has had AMD in it, and I'm still using 2 of the other 3 to this day. The 1st machine died of old age, and I gave away the still working cpu :) I have only had one problem with AMDs, and they took care of me.

After almost a year, the cpu started going. I knew this, because it would only boot if severely underclocked. The people I bought it from, said to be happy with an 1150. I called AMD (Several different people, but I found the one I needed to talk to), and he sent me a new cpu. No problems. It works great. Everyone has chips go bad from time to time, but not everyone will stand up and do right.

Richard Alvarez · April 4th, 2003, 07:37 AM

Ari,
I've been following your posts as you build your machine for a while now. Let me assure you that AMDs work just fine with Avid. My turnkey system, (built by DVLine) has dual AMD's and runs like a clock.

A lot of people are confused by the statement "AVID doesn't support such and such" or "Not AVID certified." Here's the drill. In the PC world there are practically an infinite number of hardware configurations possible. AVID does not "Certify" every possible configuration. It certifies a good number of probably the most common configurations at a given moment in software development. These are then listed as "Certified". IF you build a "non certified" system... they are not going to give you technical support running down a system they have not already certified... hence the "Not supported" system.

(I don't know that other NLE manufactures bother to test and "certify" systems at all... it's a bit of a marketing risk)

The AVID forum is a great place to ask for help with system configurations. New boards, chips, and cards come on the market every week, and someone eventually tries them out. They will likely let you know via the forum what the issues are.

If you are really hesitant about building your own system, and feel you need "support" in case something goes wrong... I strongly suggest you do as I did and buy from a reputable turnkey vendor. I know you are in Israel and shipping would be astronomical... but that's a trade-off only you can decide. Peace of mind vs saving money.

Good luck

Bill

Adi Head · April 4th, 2003, 04:28 PM

thanks for the replies. you're right bill, i am being a little too hesitant about making my decision. you might be right about just getting a turnkey system. there are venders over here which i can by them from, it's just that it seems as though the more i research (it took some time to even decide i want a pc rather than a mac) - the more decisions i have to make.

on top of it, i don't know much about computers, so i'm also sort of learning as i go about choosing what to buy.

in the end i'll probably decide the way i usually decide such things - toss a coin.

thanks again.
adi.

Andrew Petrie · April 6th, 2003, 08:28 AM

I've been using AMD processors now for years. Never had an issue. Don't concern yourself about megahertz either. AMD's core being able to process information at lower clock speeds and still maintain the performance of a higher clocked Intel is a testament to AMD's engineers.

I hope to see the new AMD Hammer out this year, 64bit NLE power should be sweet :D

Adi Head · April 7th, 2003, 05:14 PM

are there suggested motherboards that work better with amd processors?

K. Forman · April 7th, 2003, 06:27 PM

I have tha Abit KG7 Raid. It's a good board, but you will have to bust your hump to get it stable. Expect frequent lockups until you get the right balance of drivers, bios, and change the slew rates and other soft menu settings. None of which are mentioned on Abit's site. I had to go to www.sudhaim.com , Paul's unofficial Abit site to find this.

Christopher Go · April 8th, 2003, 02:53 AM

Right now I believe the fastest AMD motherboards are based on NVIDIA's nForce2 chipset. Go with a motherboard vendor that you feel is reputable (for stability many like Asus for example) and with features that you want (on-board audio, etc and later Serial ATA support).

K. Forman · April 8th, 2003, 05:46 AM

Be careful of Asus, bad history of non support with them. They are fine as long as the stuff works, but if there is a problem, you're out of luck. Been waiting 3 years to hear back about my P5a mb.

Garret Ambrosio · April 8th, 2003, 09:17 PM

Wow keith sorry to here that, but in support to what you have said, the ASUS boards that do work when they work like a champ and keeps working. I still have a T2P4 which is the original Pentium board based on the Intel 430HX chipset. Thsi sucker is still running and running like a champ, albiet I won't do any NLE stuff on it because of clock speeds. :) I used to be an avid Intel fan, until the Athlons came out. Even after they first ones blew the PIII 1.0gHz out of the water I stuck with praising Intel. But after learning about what the PIV I had to try the Athlon. My Throughbred A and Palomino Core CPU's are running great even at OC speeds. My new Throughbred B core CPU is running OC with no problems, I believe that with the exception of Intel's hyperthreading technology no new technology has been created for the PIV since the PIII. It is essentially the same CPU with a larger die so that it will dissapate heat much better thus giving you the clockspeeds Intel has achieved. It is all marketing, Intel having lost the 1GHz barrier to AMD needed to come up with a way to win. Intel knowing most people buy MHz instead of real world performance decided to clock 'em up. AMD's CPU do not dissapate heat as well as the Pentium's because of the limitations of it's design. AMD knew they can not reach the high 2GHz with the technology that were currently available to them. They instead tried to level the palying field by using the plus factor. That's the 2X00+ rating you see with their new XP CPU's. AMD claims to be on par with a Pentium at certain clockspeeds. This is not exactly true. GHz is GHz and sometimes this is wha tis needed to get the job done quickly. But then again the performance differences can be miniscule but blown up by many reviews to indicate a difference. Surely no one will notice the difference between 120 fps in Quake Arena vs 160 fps. But it sounds good and makes egos large. For our purposes the clockspeeds do make a difference, but nothing to really write home about. I rendered an hour and a half worth of video with my AMD 2700+(2.16GHz) in Vegas to MPEG-2 DVD Compliant and it took 5 hours. The top of the line Intel, 3.06 would roughly take the same amount of time give or take 10 minutes. For 3X the cost. If you want to kill some real time, I would suggest looking into a AMD MP processor and use dual or quad processing to assist you. The MP do not clock as high but will give you the ability to use two in tandem. I think you will definitely see a difference using these. Since you will have to buy two CPU's in order to see a difference I definitely will steer you away from the Intel offerings since you will pay a whole lot more and get roughly the same performance, Save your money and buy a crapload of RAM and or a nice shotgun mic or whatever else.

K. Forman · April 9th, 2003, 05:06 AM

Garret- my point is, a Company is only as good as it's support. If the support isn't there, how much money is wasted trying to fix the problem? A new mobo is about $100 and up. You waste 3 or 4 weeks emailing these guys, meanwhile, you still can't work. Then you try calling them. Still no results. Then, you just go out and buy a new board.
It doesn't matter how good 99 out of 100 products work. The important thing is how well they take care of the one that doesn't. You know... the one that you bought?

Adi Head · April 9th, 2003, 06:17 AM

what is XP and MP in athlon processors? what are the differences?

K. Forman · April 9th, 2003, 06:37 AM

XP is for single processor boards, MP is for multiple processor boards. You can't use two XPs, you would need to use the MP chips. The difference? Don't know for sure... not that big a geek :)

Adi Head · April 9th, 2003, 08:24 AM

so if i plan on having only one processor, is an XP what i need? or does a single MP processor have advantages over a single XP?

thanks.

April 4th, 2003, 05:31 AM	#1
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	addressing amd athlon users... seems i can save money if i buy an amd athlon based pc for editing rather than an intel based one, as originally planned. could use that left over cash for more storage space. can anyone familiar with amd processors comment on their experience. i'm planning to run either xpress dv 3.5 or vegas 4. i know avid doesn't support systems using amd processors, but apparently there are many who run their xpress dv on amd machines with no problems. i have posted a similar message on the avid forum, but would like to hear from you guys as well. thanks.

April 6th, 2003, 08:28 AM	#6
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	I've been using AMD processors now for years. Never had an issue. Don't concern yourself about megahertz either. AMD's core being able to process information at lower clock speeds and still maintain the performance of a higher clocked Intel is a testament to AMD's engineers. I hope to see the new AMD Hammer out this year, 64bit NLE power should be sweet :D __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

April 8th, 2003, 09:17 PM	#11
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Wow keith sorry to here that, but in support to what you have said, the ASUS boards that do work when they work like a champ and keeps working. I still have a T2P4 which is the original Pentium board based on the Intel 430HX chipset. Thsi sucker is still running and running like a champ, albiet I won't do any NLE stuff on it because of clock speeds. :) I used to be an avid Intel fan, until the Athlons came out. Even after they first ones blew the PIII 1.0gHz out of the water I stuck with praising Intel. But after learning about what the PIV I had to try the Athlon. My Throughbred A and Palomino Core CPU's are running great even at OC speeds. My new Throughbred B core CPU is running OC with no problems, I believe that with the exception of Intel's hyperthreading technology no new technology has been created for the PIV since the PIII. It is essentially the same CPU with a larger die so that it will dissapate heat much better thus giving you the clockspeeds Intel has achieved. It is all marketing, Intel having lost the 1GHz barrier to AMD needed to come up with a way to win. Intel knowing most people buy MHz instead of real world performance decided to clock 'em up. AMD's CPU do not dissapate heat as well as the Pentium's because of the limitations of it's design. AMD knew they can not reach the high 2GHz with the technology that were currently available to them. They instead tried to level the palying field by using the plus factor. That's the 2X00+ rating you see with their new XP CPU's. AMD claims to be on par with a Pentium at certain clockspeeds. This is not exactly true. GHz is GHz and sometimes this is wha tis needed to get the job done quickly. But then again the performance differences can be miniscule but blown up by many reviews to indicate a difference. Surely no one will notice the difference between 120 fps in Quake Arena vs 160 fps. But it sounds good and makes egos large. For our purposes the clockspeeds do make a difference, but nothing to really write home about. I rendered an hour and a half worth of video with my AMD 2700+(2.16GHz) in Vegas to MPEG-2 DVD Compliant and it took 5 hours. The top of the line Intel, 3.06 would roughly take the same amount of time give or take 10 minutes. For 3X the cost. If you want to kill some real time, I would suggest looking into a AMD MP processor and use dual or quad processing to assist you. The MP do not clock as high but will give you the ability to use two in tandem. I think you will definitely see a difference using these. Since you will have to buy two CPU's in order to see a difference I definitely will steer you away from the Intel offerings since you will pay a whole lot more and get roughly the same performance, Save your money and buy a crapload of RAM and or a nice shotgun mic or whatever else. __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 4th, 2003, 06:00 AM	#2
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	Hey Adi, I've built and used both Intel and AMD machines for a variety of purposes. One difference was the heat that the AMD machines put out which meant you'd have to have better cooling whether in the heatsink, fan, or both. This can mean some noise. However, this has changed with the higher clocked Pentium IVs so this should no longer be an issue. In regards to compatability I have had no problems with my dual AMD machine running Avid Xpress DV 3.5. Might want to follow the specs from turnkey dealers who also build AMD machines. The processor isn't as important for compatability as the chipset of the motherboard you are using. For example, I'm sure you've heard that VIA based chipsets have given some people problems but then again lots of people run VIA based motherboards based on discussions in the Avid forums. In summary, go for AMD if you think it can save you some cash. Otherwise it shouldn't matter so long as the remainder of your hardware is in spec with the NLE you're using.

April 4th, 2003, 07:15 AM	#3
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	AMDs do put out more heat, but you do not need a high dollar fan. AMDs stock fan cools better than most aftermarkets will, and without the extra noise. I found this out too late, and ended up with a Thermal Take that sounds like a jet turbine. Next time :) As far as AMD goes, I'll never use anything else. This is the 4th machine that has had AMD in it, and I'm still using 2 of the other 3 to this day. The 1st machine died of old age, and I gave away the still working cpu :) I have only had one problem with AMDs, and they took care of me. After almost a year, the cpu started going. I knew this, because it would only boot if severely underclocked. The people I bought it from, said to be happy with an 1150. I called AMD (Several different people, but I found the one I needed to talk to), and he sent me a new cpu. No problems. It works great. Everyone has chips go bad from time to time, but not everyone will stand up and do right.

April 4th, 2003, 07:37 AM	#4
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Ari, I've been following your posts as you build your machine for a while now. Let me assure you that AMDs work just fine with Avid. My turnkey system, (built by DVLine) has dual AMD's and runs like a clock. A lot of people are confused by the statement "AVID doesn't support such and such" or "Not AVID certified." Here's the drill. In the PC world there are practically an infinite number of hardware configurations possible. AVID does not "Certify" every possible configuration. It certifies a good number of probably the most common configurations at a given moment in software development. These are then listed as "Certified". IF you build a "non certified" system... they are not going to give you technical support running down a system they have not already certified... hence the "Not supported" system. (I don't know that other NLE manufactures bother to test and "certify" systems at all... it's a bit of a marketing risk) The AVID forum is a great place to ask for help with system configurations. New boards, chips, and cards come on the market every week, and someone eventually tries them out. They will likely let you know via the forum what the issues are. If you are really hesitant about building your own system, and feel you need "support" in case something goes wrong... I strongly suggest you do as I did and buy from a reputable turnkey vendor. I know you are in Israel and shipping would be astronomical... but that's a trade-off only you can decide. Peace of mind vs saving money. Good luck Bill

April 4th, 2003, 04:28 PM	#5
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	thanks for the replies. you're right bill, i am being a little too hesitant about making my decision. you might be right about just getting a turnkey system. there are venders over here which i can by them from, it's just that it seems as though the more i research (it took some time to even decide i want a pc rather than a mac) - the more decisions i have to make. on top of it, i don't know much about computers, so i'm also sort of learning as i go about choosing what to buy. in the end i'll probably decide the way i usually decide such things - toss a coin. thanks again. adi.

April 7th, 2003, 05:14 PM	#7
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	are there suggested motherboards that work better with amd processors?

April 7th, 2003, 06:27 PM	#8
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I have tha Abit KG7 Raid. It's a good board, but you will have to bust your hump to get it stable. Expect frequent lockups until you get the right balance of drivers, bios, and change the slew rates and other soft menu settings. None of which are mentioned on Abit's site. I had to go to www.sudhaim.com , Paul's unofficial Abit site to find this.

April 8th, 2003, 02:53 AM	#9
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	Right now I believe the fastest AMD motherboards are based on NVIDIA's nForce2 chipset. Go with a motherboard vendor that you feel is reputable (for stability many like Asus for example) and with features that you want (on-board audio, etc and later Serial ATA support).

April 8th, 2003, 05:46 AM	#10
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Be careful of Asus, bad history of non support with them. They are fine as long as the stuff works, but if there is a problem, you're out of luck. Been waiting 3 years to hear back about my P5a mb.

April 9th, 2003, 05:06 AM	#12
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Garret- my point is, a Company is only as good as it's support. If the support isn't there, how much money is wasted trying to fix the problem? A new mobo is about $100 and up. You waste 3 or 4 weeks emailing these guys, meanwhile, you still can't work. Then you try calling them. Still no results. Then, you just go out and buy a new board. It doesn't matter how good 99 out of 100 products work. The important thing is how well they take care of the one that doesn't. You know... the one that you bought?

April 9th, 2003, 06:17 AM	#13
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	what is XP and MP in athlon processors? what are the differences?

April 9th, 2003, 06:37 AM	#14
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	XP is for single processor boards, MP is for multiple processor boards. You can't use two XPs, you would need to use the MP chips. The difference? Don't know for sure... not that big a geek :)

April 9th, 2003, 08:24 AM	#15
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	so if i plan on having only one processor, is an XP what i need? or does a single MP processor have advantages over a single XP? thanks.