FCP 3/4 vs. VV 4 at DVinfo.net

Skye Giebink · February 19th, 2003, 07:06 PM

I'm currently running FCP 3 on a Quicksilver G4 867 MHz. My question is: Has anyone used both Vegas Video and Final Cut Pro? What are the pros/cons of each? Do you expect FCP 4 will be as good/better as VV 4? Also, for VV is an Alienware Area-51m the best laptop choice? It'd be nice to replace my desktop with a laptop and I'm thinking that that's the best PC laptop, but I'm open to opinions.

Thanks in advance!

Chris Hurd · February 19th, 2003, 09:16 PM

Skye, I love your tag line.

To me the biggest difference is that FCP is a timeline editor with a more traditional interface. VV is more of a layers-based compositor. Almost reminds me of After Effects. It's still an NLE, but works with layers of elements. FCP has multiple tracks of course, but not quite like layers. It's different. Perhaps someone else can expand further.

Don Donatello · February 19th, 2003, 10:19 PM

seeing that you have FCP ... and Vegas is windows ...

what are you needs/wants for a NLE ?

most persons that i know running Vegas on laptops are using sonys ...

i do not use FCP ... but from reading the VS. each can do things the other can't .... so again it comes down to how want to use it.

what i like about Vegas ... RT out for video over 1394 to NTSC monitor ( sound plays back on computer) this is a MUST for color correction .IMO you cannot color correct on computer monitor ... RT fx over 1394 ..
RT waveform/vectorscope ... and MOSTLY is that i can continue to edit/adjust fx/add fx while it previews ...

note that FCP /avid can't come anywhere near Vegas audio capability ( vegas started as audio program)

NOTE: that Vegas is CPU driven .. if you don't have the speed you will not get 30fps RT when you add fx's ... you might only get 26fps ? depends on speed and how many FX's you added ... no fx's no problem getting 29.97 previews ...

FCP does have hardware support available for HD /SDTV ..EDL support for film and video ... it does have the low res capture ( which would works very good for laptop) ... it does nesting for layers/compositing .... many vendors are supporting FCP and many plug in's work with FCP

they are about equal in color correction tools ...

Vegas 4 does support scripting ( .NET)

FCP is accepted in hollywood as a NLE and making inroads ...

Skye Giebink · February 19th, 2003, 10:39 PM

Thanks, guys!

Chris:
Hearing that Vegas Video is not-so-timeline-friendly(?) is a turnoff. I LIVE in the timeline. It's where I make all of my edits and trims and such. I just drag the clip to the timeline straight from the bin and go on from there.

Don:
Yes, I have many great programs for the Mac. (i.e. FCP, DVD SP, PS 7, etc.) I've only owned two computers, a G3 and my current G4. I do use and have had plenty of use on PCs at school and elsewhere. I like the feel of Macs and its interface (OS X) better than what I've used, but I've never really used Windows XP.
I'm basically just (for future purchasing) comparing PCs and Macs. I like the fact that basically everything is made for PCs and everyone has one and they play games, all software, all peripherals, etc. I was curious about VV4+DVD because of it's low price (especially because I'm in high school-academic pricing). I also like PCs because of their speed and selection.

Basically, I'm just preparing myself for when I need to buy a different computer: checking out the competition. P.S. How stable are PCs for video editing?

Thanks again for the replies!

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Do you perchance (Don) know what Sony models are best for video editing and what your models your friends(?) are using?

Don Donatello · February 19th, 2003, 11:10 PM

actually Vegas is very time line friendly .. i do 90% of editing in TL
other 10 % use the trimmer ... also you can have many instances of Vegas open at same time .. so i copy/paste from one Vegas window TL to another vegas window TL ... though after 2 1/2 years using Vegas i'm just starting to use the trimmer within past 3 months.

but getting back to FCP ... as of now FCP has much more support for it today and looking ahead .. apple keeps adding to it and the price remains 995 ..

who knows you might be able to use BOTH as Vegas can handle QT clips mixed with avi clips in same TL ...

the sony models vary ( depending on when they bought them ) .. they are NOT the light weight thin sonys .. these are the 7-9 lbs models ... friend just bought the sony with a PIV 2.4 and 16" LCD screen , 512 ram ( $1699) ... they also use the pyro ads 1394 card and NOT the 1394 built into the sony ?? got me why ? ... i know that douglas spotted eagle uses a echo mona sound card with his sony ... i also use the mona with my laptop -older sony PII 366 which doesn't meet Vegas specs but it does run it ... i don't capture with it .. i do use it over my network with my other computers

i have win 98 ( forget it NOT STABLE) , win2K very stable , and a XP excellent stable ... VEGAS is very stable on win2K and and maybe i've had 3 crashes with it on XP ( but i was a beta tester for V4 ) .. i like XP and recommend it ...

now i just got combustion and it does crash XP and win2K BUT i see many are having same crashes on all OS ( even mac'ers) .
so IMO it's combustion ...

other PC editing programs ?? i don't know .... i do hear/see many complaints about premiere crashing but then i don't know if it's really premiere or the capture card being used ?

i use acid . sound forge , Vegas all stable .. will be getting the new DVD + V4 ...

www.videoguys.com has some good test/reviews of PC cards/NLE

Skye Giebink · February 19th, 2003, 11:35 PM

Thanks for the quick response! I meant PC NLE in general. How stable are they compared to NLE on Macs? I checked the Sony Vaio site and I see a 2.4 GHz P4 but it has a 15" screen. There are 16" screens but slower processors. Well, it's good to know that I'd be able to edit in the timeline if I used Vegas Video. If I got a new Vaio, would I need to do anything to it like different FireWire card and so-on? Thanks again.

Jeff Donald · February 19th, 2003, 11:35 PM

This thread became a VV vs. FCP vs. Avid debate. Several of my comments are meant for a person just like yourself. Someone just starting out looking for a career as an editor would do well to learn either Avid or FCP. They are the industry standard for editing. I'm not saying the VV doesn't do professional work, or that professionals don't use VV, or that VV doesn't contain professional features. What I'm saying is, professional editing jobs are available for people with either the Avid or FCP skill set. If you look at any professional bulletin board that has jobs posted, I doubt you'll find any postings for VV editors.

Don Donatello · February 20th, 2003, 12:38 PM

i can 2nd Jeffs point ...
when i'm in LA , SF , Portland, Seattle and i visit post production /edit houses i see ADVID s..room after room of AVIDS .... within past year a some FCP rooms ..

Edward Troxel · February 20th, 2003, 01:06 PM

"Hearing that Vegas Video is not-so-timeline-friendly(?) is a turnoff."

Vegas is VERY timeline friendly. In fact, it's so friendly that you can do EVERYTHING on ANY track in the timeline. It's different from FCP in that it doesn't use (or need) the A/B view - although you CAN turn on a A/B view if that makes you more comfortable. You are not limited to the A/B tracks for certain operations so, it is MORE friendly that FCP or Premiere.

"How stable are they compared to NLE on Macs?"

All I can say is that I have Vegas open 24/7 for WEEKS at a time with no reboots and no problems. Is that stable enough?

Rick Spilman · February 20th, 2003, 04:41 PM

Comparing FCP and VV is comparing Apples and oranges, or at least Apples and PCs. Kinda hard to really compare one to the other without dealing with platform issues.

VV is extremely stable, easy to use & powerful. The only thing that I don't like about it is its dumb name.

Skye Giebink · February 20th, 2003, 10:10 PM

Thanks again everyone! Jeff, you bring up a good point, I never even thought of that. I just wish I could edit in the timeline in Avid XPressDV just as easily as in FCP. Maybe I'm just missing something, but every time I try, I always have to do numerous steps to accomplish simple trims and moves in the timeline... Does anyone else feel this way?

February 19th, 2003, 07:06 PM	#1
Skye Giebink Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South Dakota Posts: 54	FCP 3/4 vs. VV 4 I'm currently running FCP 3 on a Quicksilver G4 867 MHz. My question is: Has anyone used both Vegas Video and Final Cut Pro? What are the pros/cons of each? Do you expect FCP 4 will be as good/better as VV 4? Also, for VV is an Alienware Area-51m the best laptop choice? It'd be nice to replace my desktop with a laptop and I'm thinking that that's the best PC laptop, but I'm open to opinions. Thanks in advance!

February 19th, 2003, 09:16 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Skye, I love your tag line. To me the biggest difference is that FCP is a timeline editor with a more traditional interface. VV is more of a layers-based compositor. Almost reminds me of After Effects. It's still an NLE, but works with layers of elements. FCP has multiple tracks of course, but not quite like layers. It's different. Perhaps someone else can expand further. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 19th, 2003, 11:35 PM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	This thread became a VV vs. FCP vs. Avid debate. Several of my comments are meant for a person just like yourself. Someone just starting out looking for a career as an editor would do well to learn either Avid or FCP. They are the industry standard for editing. I'm not saying the VV doesn't do professional work, or that professionals don't use VV, or that VV doesn't contain professional features. What I'm saying is, professional editing jobs are available for people with either the Avid or FCP skill set. If you look at any professional bulletin board that has jobs posted, I doubt you'll find any postings for VV editors. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 19th, 2003, 10:19 PM	#3
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	seeing that you have FCP ... and Vegas is windows ... what are you needs/wants for a NLE ? most persons that i know running Vegas on laptops are using sonys ... i do not use FCP ... but from reading the VS. each can do things the other can't .... so again it comes down to how want to use it. what i like about Vegas ... RT out for video over 1394 to NTSC monitor ( sound plays back on computer) this is a MUST for color correction .IMO you cannot color correct on computer monitor ... RT fx over 1394 .. RT waveform/vectorscope ... and MOSTLY is that i can continue to edit/adjust fx/add fx while it previews ... note that FCP /avid can't come anywhere near Vegas audio capability ( vegas started as audio program) NOTE: that Vegas is CPU driven .. if you don't have the speed you will not get 30fps RT when you add fx's ... you might only get 26fps ? depends on speed and how many FX's you added ... no fx's no problem getting 29.97 previews ... FCP does have hardware support available for HD /SDTV ..EDL support for film and video ... it does have the low res capture ( which would works very good for laptop) ... it does nesting for layers/compositing .... many vendors are supporting FCP and many plug in's work with FCP they are about equal in color correction tools ... Vegas 4 does support scripting ( .NET) FCP is accepted in hollywood as a NLE and making inroads ...

February 19th, 2003, 10:39 PM	#4
Skye Giebink Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South Dakota Posts: 54	Thanks, guys! Chris: Hearing that Vegas Video is not-so-timeline-friendly(?) is a turnoff. I LIVE in the timeline. It's where I make all of my edits and trims and such. I just drag the clip to the timeline straight from the bin and go on from there. Don: Yes, I have many great programs for the Mac. (i.e. FCP, DVD SP, PS 7, etc.) I've only owned two computers, a G3 and my current G4. I do use and have had plenty of use on PCs at school and elsewhere. I like the feel of Macs and its interface (OS X) better than what I've used, but I've never really used Windows XP. I'm basically just (for future purchasing) comparing PCs and Macs. I like the fact that basically everything is made for PCs and everyone has one and they play games, all software, all peripherals, etc. I was curious about VV4+DVD because of it's low price (especially because I'm in high school-academic pricing). I also like PCs because of their speed and selection. Basically, I'm just preparing myself for when I need to buy a different computer: checking out the competition. P.S. How stable are PCs for video editing? Thanks again for the replies! Oh yeah, almost forgot. Do you perchance (Don) know what Sony models are best for video editing and what your models your friends(?) are using?

February 19th, 2003, 11:10 PM	#5
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	actually Vegas is very time line friendly .. i do 90% of editing in TL other 10 % use the trimmer ... also you can have many instances of Vegas open at same time .. so i copy/paste from one Vegas window TL to another vegas window TL ... though after 2 1/2 years using Vegas i'm just starting to use the trimmer within past 3 months. but getting back to FCP ... as of now FCP has much more support for it today and looking ahead .. apple keeps adding to it and the price remains 995 .. who knows you might be able to use BOTH as Vegas can handle QT clips mixed with avi clips in same TL ... the sony models vary ( depending on when they bought them ) .. they are NOT the light weight thin sonys .. these are the 7-9 lbs models ... friend just bought the sony with a PIV 2.4 and 16" LCD screen , 512 ram ( $1699) ... they also use the pyro ads 1394 card and NOT the 1394 built into the sony ?? got me why ? ... i know that douglas spotted eagle uses a echo mona sound card with his sony ... i also use the mona with my laptop -older sony PII 366 which doesn't meet Vegas specs but it does run it ... i don't capture with it .. i do use it over my network with my other computers i have win 98 ( forget it NOT STABLE) , win2K very stable , and a XP excellent stable ... VEGAS is very stable on win2K and and maybe i've had 3 crashes with it on XP ( but i was a beta tester for V4 ) .. i like XP and recommend it ... now i just got combustion and it does crash XP and win2K BUT i see many are having same crashes on all OS ( even mac'ers) . so IMO it's combustion ... other PC editing programs ?? i don't know .... i do hear/see many complaints about premiere crashing but then i don't know if it's really premiere or the capture card being used ? i use acid . sound forge , Vegas all stable .. will be getting the new DVD + V4 ... www.videoguys.com has some good test/reviews of PC cards/NLE

February 20th, 2003, 12:38 PM	#8
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	i can 2nd Jeffs point ... when i'm in LA , SF , Portland, Seattle and i visit post production /edit houses i see ADVID s..room after room of AVIDS .... within past year a some FCP rooms ..

February 20th, 2003, 01:06 PM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	"Hearing that Vegas Video is not-so-timeline-friendly(?) is a turnoff." Vegas is VERY timeline friendly. In fact, it's so friendly that you can do EVERYTHING on ANY track in the timeline. It's different from FCP in that it doesn't use (or need) the A/B view - although you CAN turn on a A/B view if that makes you more comfortable. You are not limited to the A/B tracks for certain operations so, it is MORE friendly that FCP or Premiere. "How stable are they compared to NLE on Macs?" All I can say is that I have Vegas open 24/7 for WEEKS at a time with no reboots and no problems. Is that stable enough?

February 20th, 2003, 04:41 PM	#10
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	Comparing FCP and VV is comparing Apples and oranges, or at least Apples and PCs. Kinda hard to really compare one to the other without dealing with platform issues. VV is extremely stable, easy to use & powerful. The only thing that I don't like about it is its dumb name.

February 20th, 2003, 10:10 PM	#11
Skye Giebink Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South Dakota Posts: 54	Thanks again everyone! Jeff, you bring up a good point, I never even thought of that. I just wish I could edit in the timeline in Avid XPressDV just as easily as in FCP. Maybe I'm just missing something, but every time I try, I always have to do numerous steps to accomplish simple trims and moves in the timeline... Does anyone else feel this way?