Monitor / TV editing

Hilary Cam · January 7th, 2003, 10:43 PM

Hi,

Im looking into setting up my comp (winXP pro, 512ddr, GF3, 130gb etc) to run dv editing with:

- either premiere 6.5 or Avid Xpress

- using both my 17" monitor for editing (timeline, render effects etc) and a 66cm widescreen TV for viewing the actual video footage window in more-or-less real-time.

I have a TV-out on my GeForce 3 vid card, but i can only use EITHER the TV or monitor at any given time.

I dont yet have a Canon XM2 (gl2 in us), but I was wondering if i is possible to use the GL2/XM2 as some sort of connection to get this set up.

I've heard of whats called 'legacy monitor mode' in Avid which has an option to 'send video to dv device (client monitor enable)'.
Does this mean that you can edit on your monitor as usuall and it sends the footage as u edit it through the firewire to the Canon XM2/GL2 and from there out through a S-video cable to the TV.

Can someone clarify this for me.

If this is not possable, I was wondering whether there is another way, such as using the TV-out on my Gf3 just for the widescreen TV, and installing a second PCI video card for my monitor. Idealy I do NOT want two clone/identical screens, i want one for normal editing, and the other JUST for monitoring edited footage as I edit.

I'm a little in over my head I guess, but any help/suggestions would be great.

Thanks,
Hilary

Robert Knecht Schmidt · January 7th, 2003, 10:52 PM

You current video card will probably not be capable of sending video output over both the VGA port and the S-Video port at the same time. The dual video card setup will probably not work because video overlay tends to only work on the dominant video card.

What you really want is a DV out device. You will be able to run your video signal out through FireWire into your video camera, and then use the composite or S-Video output on your video camera to send the signal to your TV monitor.

I recommend either the RaptorRT or the DVStorm product from Canopus. These products will give you real time output through the firewire port. The DVStorm also has real time analog outputs that you will be able to plug your TV monitor into directly, freeing up your video camera. A cheaper OHCI firewire port (which may be built into your computer system depending on how new it is) may suffice, depending on what kind of work you want to do.

Good luck, Hilary, and let us know how it turns out.

Adrian Douglas · January 7th, 2003, 11:00 PM

Hilary,

Look into the Canopus ADVC100. It's and analouge to digital (and visa versa) converter that allows you to run a TV off your firewire output. It will also allow you to capture from older analogue cameras like Hi8.

One drawback however is just what Robert has mentioned, neither Premiere or Avid offer RT playback over firewire and ultimately your TV monitor. To get RT playback on your monitor you'll have to go for a capture card like the CanopusRt/Storm, Pinnacle DV500 plus /Pinnacle Pro One. This then opens up questions of compatibility with other hardware in your computer.

A further option, but one I'm not 100% sure of, is the new Matrox Parhelia. This card offers support for 3 monitors, or as you want 2 monitors and a TV. It might be worth looking into.

http://www.matrox.com/mga/archive_story/oct2002/video_workstation.cfm

Hilary Cam · January 8th, 2003, 12:48 AM

Thanks both for your help.

I'm sorry, I never meant I wanted real-time-editing, I know you have to allow for rendering time for opperations in both these programs, and I am fine with that.

What I simply mean't was that the 'monitor window' either in avid or premiere could be viewed full size through the TV. So when i carry out a transition/cut and it has rendered it can instantly/directly be viewable on the widescreen TV.

So I guess...

"What you really want is a DV out device. You will be able to run your video signal out through FireWire into your video camera, and then use the composite or S-Video output on your video camera to send the signal to your TV monitor."
-- Robert Knecht Schmidt

... kind of answers my question. Do you mean by this that, while i edit around with footage on the computer i can see the results (of transitions, cuts, renders) 'instantly' after the render process on the TV through the camera (ie editing prog-->firewire-->GL2-->TV).

Would any generic firewire card allow for this (in/OUT transfer)?

Is this a correct, clear solution?

PS

The Canopus ADVC100 card does look like an ideal solution, albiet more expensive then the above generic firewire via camera idea.

Thanks.

Adrian Douglas · January 8th, 2003, 01:56 AM

Any Firewire card will do that for you. It just means you have to go through the motions of hooking everything up when you want to edit. But no matter which way you go there are always trade offs.

Hilary Cam · January 8th, 2003, 02:27 AM

Great, Ill try that out when i can.

One last thing. Will this way still work even if what im editing is on the hard drive rather then from the tape?

Thanks again for your help.

David Hurdon · January 8th, 2003, 06:35 AM

Yes, Hilary, the "through the camera" method will monitor hard drive content as you work with it. In fact, on my P4-1.8GHZ system scrubbing is rendered better on the TV than in Premiere's windows.

Rob Lohman · January 8th, 2003, 04:46 PM

Just for safety reasons do the RaptorRT and DVStorm things work
with Avid? I thought they only worked (in having an advantage)
under Premiere? That might be a trivial thing to know in these
cases.

I edit on a laptop with built-in firewire. If I let my XL1s on the
firewire bus whilst editing the editing screen will be outputted
in REALTIME by premiere to the camera (which I can hook up
to a monitor/TV). HOWEVER, the window in premiere is NOT
realtime anymore then! But this should not matter anymore since
you've got a big TV hooked up. Perhaps you can disable premiere's
preview window altogether then. I have no idea if or how this
works with Avid.

Richard Alvarez · January 8th, 2003, 04:55 PM

You can use two monitors and NTSC with AvidXpressDV, by using "the McFly" method, OR the Parahelia card. The Monitor out is RT, but single field.

If you have a cnaopus ADVC100 connected to your firewire, then you see what you are working on through your NTSC monitor. SO as you scrub, fast forward, etc. it shows up on the NTSC in full res. But the effects need to be rendered to show up on the NTSC full field.

Drop by the avid forum, and search for the posts on The McFly method for instructions on setting up a Matrox 550 and extra card for three monitors.

Steve Leone · January 8th, 2003, 04:58 PM

Canopus Makes a ADVC1394..
this is a PCI card.
it combines analog in and out with firewire ports....it has no real-time functionality, but you can use it to monitor your analog video via the analog outs. You can also input analog video; it has a Canopus DV chip that converts the analog to DV, or you can capture DV via the firewire ports. Then you can try to set up your display adapter to give to dual VGA diplay if possible, and use a 3rd NTSC monitor for your video output fed by the canopus card.
I use a G450 dual head display adapter for my VGA out and a DV device for my analog video out.

Richard Alvarez · January 8th, 2003, 05:03 PM

Sorry, I used the expression NTSC for the TV monitor, in Australia, that would be PAL no? Either way, AVID supports it.

Steve Leone · January 8th, 2003, 05:11 PM

LOL...damn....forgot about that...not sure WHAT they use down there....but to me NTSC is synonomous with "analog" in this case. BTW, Jaton makes a G-force 3 MX440 twin head card for about $80.....US Funds of course...however, I dont think that AVID supports that display card , or ANY G-force card, for DV xpress....LOL....doesnt that just figure?? I believe they are supporting G450/G550 and Parhelion cards for multi display for version 3.5

Hilary Cam · January 9th, 2003, 12:28 AM

Thanks everyone, sounds like the firewire via camera process might be just what I want.

This forum is a real gem for anyone starting out in digi vid.

Yes its PAL-B down here. Though most newer TVs support both PAL and NTSC input.

Hilary

January 7th, 2003, 10:43 PM	#1
Hilary Cam Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42	Monitor / TV editing - Hypotheticals Hi, Im looking into setting up my comp (winXP pro, 512ddr, GF3, 130gb etc) to run dv editing with: - either premiere 6.5 or Avid Xpress - using both my 17" monitor for editing (timeline, render effects etc) and a 66cm widescreen TV for viewing the actual video footage window in more-or-less real-time. I have a TV-out on my GeForce 3 vid card, but i can only use EITHER the TV or monitor at any given time. I dont yet have a Canon XM2 (gl2 in us), but I was wondering if i is possible to use the GL2/XM2 as some sort of connection to get this set up. I've heard of whats called 'legacy monitor mode' in Avid which has an option to 'send video to dv device (client monitor enable)'. Does this mean that you can edit on your monitor as usuall and it sends the footage as u edit it through the firewire to the Canon XM2/GL2 and from there out through a S-video cable to the TV. Can someone clarify this for me. If this is not possable, I was wondering whether there is another way, such as using the TV-out on my Gf3 just for the widescreen TV, and installing a second PCI video card for my monitor. Idealy I do NOT want two clone/identical screens, i want one for normal editing, and the other JUST for monitoring edited footage as I edit. I'm a little in over my head I guess, but any help/suggestions would be great. Thanks, Hilary

January 7th, 2003, 10:52 PM	#2
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	You current video card will probably not be capable of sending video output over both the VGA port and the S-Video port at the same time. The dual video card setup will probably not work because video overlay tends to only work on the dominant video card. What you really want is a DV out device. You will be able to run your video signal out through FireWire into your video camera, and then use the composite or S-Video output on your video camera to send the signal to your TV monitor. I recommend either the RaptorRT or the DVStorm product from Canopus. These products will give you real time output through the firewire port. The DVStorm also has real time analog outputs that you will be able to plug your TV monitor into directly, freeing up your video camera. A cheaper OHCI firewire port (which may be built into your computer system depending on how new it is) may suffice, depending on what kind of work you want to do. Good luck, Hilary, and let us know how it turns out. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 7th, 2003, 11:00 PM	#3
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Hilary, Look into the Canopus ADVC100. It's and analouge to digital (and visa versa) converter that allows you to run a TV off your firewire output. It will also allow you to capture from older analogue cameras like Hi8. One drawback however is just what Robert has mentioned, neither Premiere or Avid offer RT playback over firewire and ultimately your TV monitor. To get RT playback on your monitor you'll have to go for a capture card like the CanopusRt/Storm, Pinnacle DV500 plus /Pinnacle Pro One. This then opens up questions of compatibility with other hardware in your computer. A further option, but one I'm not 100% sure of, is the new Matrox Parhelia. This card offers support for 3 monitors, or as you want 2 monitors and a TV. It might be worth looking into. http://www.matrox.com/mga/archive_story/oct2002/video_workstation.cfm __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

January 8th, 2003, 01:56 AM	#5
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Any Firewire card will do that for you. It just means you have to go through the motions of hooking everything up when you want to edit. But no matter which way you go there are always trade offs. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

January 8th, 2003, 06:35 AM	#7
David Hurdon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 484	Monitor/TV editing Yes, Hilary, the "through the camera" method will monitor hard drive content as you work with it. In fact, on my P4-1.8GHZ system scrubbing is rendered better on the TV than in Premiere's windows. __________________ Site:http://www.faceliftmarketing.ca Blog:http://www.websitevideo.blogspot.com

January 8th, 2003, 12:48 AM	#4
Hilary Cam Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42	Thanks both for your help. I'm sorry, I never meant I wanted real-time-editing, I know you have to allow for rendering time for opperations in both these programs, and I am fine with that. What I simply mean't was that the 'monitor window' either in avid or premiere could be viewed full size through the TV. So when i carry out a transition/cut and it has rendered it can instantly/directly be viewable on the widescreen TV. So I guess... "What you really want is a DV out device. You will be able to run your video signal out through FireWire into your video camera, and then use the composite or S-Video output on your video camera to send the signal to your TV monitor." -- Robert Knecht Schmidt ... kind of answers my question. Do you mean by this that, while i edit around with footage on the computer i can see the results (of transitions, cuts, renders) 'instantly' after the render process on the TV through the camera (ie editing prog-->firewire-->GL2-->TV). Would any generic firewire card allow for this (in/OUT transfer)? Is this a correct, clear solution? PS The Canopus ADVC100 card does look like an ideal solution, albiet more expensive then the above generic firewire via camera idea. Thanks.

January 8th, 2003, 02:27 AM	#6
Hilary Cam Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42	Great, Ill try that out when i can. One last thing. Will this way still work even if what im editing is on the hard drive rather then from the tape? Thanks again for your help.

January 8th, 2003, 04:46 PM	#8
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Just for safety reasons do the RaptorRT and DVStorm things work with Avid? I thought they only worked (in having an advantage) under Premiere? That might be a trivial thing to know in these cases. I edit on a laptop with built-in firewire. If I let my XL1s on the firewire bus whilst editing the editing screen will be outputted in REALTIME by premiere to the camera (which I can hook up to a monitor/TV). HOWEVER, the window in premiere is NOT realtime anymore then! But this should not matter anymore since you've got a big TV hooked up. Perhaps you can disable premiere's preview window altogether then. I have no idea if or how this works with Avid. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 8th, 2003, 04:55 PM	#9
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	You can use two monitors and NTSC with AvidXpressDV, by using "the McFly" method, OR the Parahelia card. The Monitor out is RT, but single field. If you have a cnaopus ADVC100 connected to your firewire, then you see what you are working on through your NTSC monitor. SO as you scrub, fast forward, etc. it shows up on the NTSC in full res. But the effects need to be rendered to show up on the NTSC full field. Drop by the avid forum, and search for the posts on The McFly method for instructions on setting up a Matrox 550 and extra card for three monitors.

January 8th, 2003, 04:58 PM	#10
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	Monitor Solution Canopus Makes a ADVC1394.. this is a PCI card. it combines analog in and out with firewire ports....it has no real-time functionality, but you can use it to monitor your analog video via the analog outs. You can also input analog video; it has a Canopus DV chip that converts the analog to DV, or you can capture DV via the firewire ports. Then you can try to set up your display adapter to give to dual VGA diplay if possible, and use a 3rd NTSC monitor for your video output fed by the canopus card. I use a G450 dual head display adapter for my VGA out and a DV device for my analog video out. __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

January 8th, 2003, 05:03 PM	#11
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Sorry, I used the expression NTSC for the TV monitor, in Australia, that would be PAL no? Either way, AVID supports it.

January 8th, 2003, 05:11 PM	#12
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	Monitor Solution LOL...damn....forgot about that...not sure WHAT they use down there....but to me NTSC is synonomous with "analog" in this case. BTW, Jaton makes a G-force 3 MX440 twin head card for about $80.....US Funds of course...however, I dont think that AVID supports that display card , or ANY G-force card, for DV xpress....LOL....doesnt that just figure?? I believe they are supporting G450/G550 and Parhelion cards for multi display for version 3.5 __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

January 9th, 2003, 12:28 AM	#13
Hilary Cam Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 42	Thanks everyone, sounds like the firewire via camera process might be just what I want. This forum is a real gem for anyone starting out in digi vid. Yes its PAL-B down here. Though most newer TVs support both PAL and NTSC input. Hilary