Data

Paul R Johnson · June 16th, 2020, 01:22 AM

I think I'm fairly computer literate, but I have hit a block. My new video studio is 1 mile from here, where my audio studio is. I moved video editing in with audio here about 6 months ago as I was doing lots of integrated projects and two rooms was becoming a pain. I still intend editing in the audio studio BUT - the new premises means some will have to be done there.

My problem is access to data. I 'think' I need network storage. I'm using drop box at the moment and it's cumbersome and iCloud is the same. I cannot stream audio or video to or from them properly, as they're not designed for that.

Q1. If I buy a NAS drive and put it in the remote studio, can I edit directly from it, then save in the normal way. Go home and load up the NAS drive premiere project and continue editing? Some people seem to use them in this way from what I read - for audio and video, while others edit locally, then dump the files, and leave the, to upload.

Q2. If they CAN be used like this, which one is best? I do not need huge amounts of storage, as I tend to store old or archived stuff on external drives and store them. So I guess a couple of Tb of usable storage is enough.

ALL the info is confusing. The YouTube videos even more so on this one.

My aim would be to be able to just work quickly on the same software in both locations without having to download entire folders. Just load a project, edit on it (or use Cubase) then save it, and tomorrow open it up in the other location and just work straight away.

Both premises have speeds of just over 70/20 if it's critical.

So are NAS drives what I need, and which one? They seem to start at around 400-500 for a Raid 1 4Tb (which gives me 2Tb to use?)

They have loads of features and software, but not sure I need this, or do I?

No 4K, just 1080 in the main for video, and usually a max of 20 tracks of audio would be typical?

Andrew Smith · June 16th, 2020, 06:58 PM

There's no easy solution for this one at the cheap end of it all.

One possibility is to have two NAS drives where the slave unit constantly updates with any file changes on the master unit via a live update over the internet. But it's only one way and the bandwidth required for your video assets will likely eat through the data allowance for both your internet connections.

In all likelihood you could work instead from some sort of portable storage unit and take it home and back as needed, but risky as far as backups go. Lose the drive and you lose everything.

What might be worth looking at is a "KVM extender". A KVM in the old days was a clunky mechanical switch where you could set it to which of multiple computers you wished to control whilst only using the one mouse, keyboard and monitor. Geeky tech types loved them for the magnificent saving of desk space.

You can now get the same thing but working over an network/internet connection instead of a few metres of cables. I'm not sure that this is the exact product that will work for you, but Matrox have some that are specifically designed for video professionals and probably targeting larger studios, such as the Matrox Extio 3 Series.

Matrox have even extended the concept further such that outside broadcasts simply become an extension of the video cameras (on site) from where the master control / studio remains (at a TV station) with a data link carrying the genlocked content from all cameras. That is, you no longer need an OB van on site to produce the final signal that goes to air - just a bunch of cameras, audio gear, an internet connection and their little box of magic. (I wouldn't want shares in traditional OB van manufacturing right now as these are now conceivably obsolete.)

I'm not entirely sure which product will be best for you, but by sheer coincidence an email landed in my inbox this morning stating "Are you ready to take control of your workspace? Join Matrox's business development manager, Caroline Injoyan, to learn how Matrox Extio 3 IP KVM extenders enable remote workflows in broadcast and post-production environments. We will discuss what key elements to consider when selecting an IP KVM extender and the essential security features required for KVM installations." You can register for their webinar here.

Andrew

Paul R Johnson · June 17th, 2020, 12:37 AM

Looks like I've misunderstood what they can do, so the reality is simply to set up syncing with local files in each location, rather just one, centralised. I can live with this, but the hype and the usual unintelligible YouTube videos that suggest this is how it works.

Andrew Smith · June 17th, 2020, 04:06 AM

I have no idea if it can be configured to work both ways, but this futzing about is no guarantee of success.

Now that I think of it, why not try good old fashioned Windows Remote Desktop between the two computers? You could save yourself a motza if you forgo the snazzy frame sync and are willing to tolerate editing with a lower screen resolution than what you would have in the studio. I think you still get audio.
Might as well give it a shot and see if it is good enough.

Remote Access products such as Team Viewer have also come a long way too with improvements in technology and also internet bandwidth. I usually think of it as only something to reach for when troubleshooting another computer for a friend.

Give it a go and see if it works for you. I'm keen to hear your results (and kicking myself I didn't think of it earlier).

Andrew

Paul R Johnson · June 17th, 2020, 12:26 PM

Never thought of actually using remote screen control, but maybe that might work. I'll give it a go as soon as the broadband is connected next week.

Seems sensible for my audio and video computers and my MacBook in my old working from home way of doing things - having instant access to everything would be useful there, but I guess access to this network drive from the new place might be OK for word processing, image editing and perhaps a bit of audio, but HD, let alone 4K down the line could be tricky, but I guess I need to try.

Jim Michael · June 17th, 2020, 02:49 PM

I think one reason this becomes confusing is that there many routes to a solution. The variables are variable, so to speak. Low tech would be to carry an external drive with sufficient throughput to be practical for your needs, so that might entail a couple TB SSDs in a housing with either USB 3 or TB. That's cheap and decent performance.

A high tech option is a microwave link between your two sites, which is actually affordable these days.(e.g. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801) if you have a clear shot and the dish aesthetics can be managed. We once needed to bring up large bandwidth connectivity between two data centers in a hurry and a microwave link saved the day.

If your internet u/d bandwidth is sufficient for your needs another option is a VPN into your office, which would allow you to be on your network from any location. That's as fast as your internet bandwidth allows.

A small NAS with 3 or 4 SSDs would be reasonably portable. Then you would have gigabit ethernet from the NAS to your system provided everything else is that fast.

As for syncing things up, that should be scriptable if you have a consistent storage management protocol and workflow. If you don't code find someone who can set something up for you. It could be complex (two sites kept in sync) or simple as in moving changes from a portable drive.

I've seen an example of trying to use those remote control system access applications (e.g. GoToMyPC) as a proxy for VPN and see how slow and limiting it can be, so would not recommend that.

Paul R Johnson · June 18th, 2020, 12:50 AM

Cheers Jim,
I think I'm over thinking this. I think having one for central storage cabled will help me here, and I'll have to live with a local copy the other end if it cannot be done live via the net. I will just have to wait and see.

I've ordered an 8Tb NAS so will use it in Raid 1 mode at home, whatever as it will make a lot of sense, then experiment with remote working as things arrive.
Thanks all.

June 16th, 2020, 01:22 AM	#1
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Data - and NAS drives I think I'm fairly computer literate, but I have hit a block. My new video studio is 1 mile from here, where my audio studio is. I moved video editing in with audio here about 6 months ago as I was doing lots of integrated projects and two rooms was becoming a pain. I still intend editing in the audio studio BUT - the new premises means some will have to be done there. My problem is access to data. I 'think' I need network storage. I'm using drop box at the moment and it's cumbersome and iCloud is the same. I cannot stream audio or video to or from them properly, as they're not designed for that. Q1. If I buy a NAS drive and put it in the remote studio, can I edit directly from it, then save in the normal way. Go home and load up the NAS drive premiere project and continue editing? Some people seem to use them in this way from what I read - for audio and video, while others edit locally, then dump the files, and leave the, to upload. Q2. If they CAN be used like this, which one is best? I do not need huge amounts of storage, as I tend to store old or archived stuff on external drives and store them. So I guess a couple of Tb of usable storage is enough. ALL the info is confusing. The YouTube videos even more so on this one. My aim would be to be able to just work quickly on the same software in both locations without having to download entire folders. Just load a project, edit on it (or use Cubase) then save it, and tomorrow open it up in the other location and just work straight away. Both premises have speeds of just over 70/20 if it's critical. So are NAS drives what I need, and which one? They seem to start at around 400-500 for a Raid 1 4Tb (which gives me 2Tb to use?) They have loads of features and software, but not sure I need this, or do I? No 4K, just 1080 in the main for video, and usually a max of 20 tracks of audio would be typical?

June 16th, 2020, 06:58 PM	#2
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,065	Re: Data - and NAS drives There's no easy solution for this one at the cheap end of it all. One possibility is to have two NAS drives where the slave unit constantly updates with any file changes on the master unit via a live update over the internet. But it's only one way and the bandwidth required for your video assets will likely eat through the data allowance for both your internet connections. In all likelihood you could work instead from some sort of portable storage unit and take it home and back as needed, but risky as far as backups go. Lose the drive and you lose everything. What might be worth looking at is a "KVM extender". A KVM in the old days was a clunky mechanical switch where you could set it to which of multiple computers you wished to control whilst only using the one mouse, keyboard and monitor. Geeky tech types loved them for the magnificent saving of desk space. You can now get the same thing but working over an network/internet connection instead of a few metres of cables. I'm not sure that this is the exact product that will work for you, but Matrox have some that are specifically designed for video professionals and probably targeting larger studios, such as the Matrox Extio 3 Series. Matrox have even extended the concept further such that outside broadcasts simply become an extension of the video cameras (on site) from where the master control / studio remains (at a TV station) with a data link carrying the genlocked content from all cameras. That is, you no longer need an OB van on site to produce the final signal that goes to air - just a bunch of cameras, audio gear, an internet connection and their little box of magic. (I wouldn't want shares in traditional OB van manufacturing right now as these are now conceivably obsolete.) I'm not entirely sure which product will be best for you, but by sheer coincidence an email landed in my inbox this morning stating "Are you ready to take control of your workspace? Join Matrox's business development manager, Caroline Injoyan, to learn how Matrox Extio 3 IP KVM extenders enable remote workflows in broadcast and post-production environments. We will discuss what key elements to consider when selecting an IP KVM extender and the essential security features required for KVM installations." You can register for their webinar here. Andrew

June 17th, 2020, 12:37 AM	#3
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Data - and NAS drives Looks like I've misunderstood what they can do, so the reality is simply to set up syncing with local files in each location, rather just one, centralised. I can live with this, but the hype and the usual unintelligible YouTube videos that suggest this is how it works.

June 17th, 2020, 04:06 AM	#4
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,065	Re: Data - and NAS drives I have no idea if it can be configured to work both ways, but this futzing about is no guarantee of success. Now that I think of it, why not try good old fashioned Windows Remote Desktop between the two computers? You could save yourself a motza if you forgo the snazzy frame sync and are willing to tolerate editing with a lower screen resolution than what you would have in the studio. I think you still get audio. Might as well give it a shot and see if it is good enough. Remote Access products such as Team Viewer have also come a long way too with improvements in technology and also internet bandwidth. I usually think of it as only something to reach for when troubleshooting another computer for a friend. Give it a go and see if it works for you. I'm keen to hear your results (and kicking myself I didn't think of it earlier). Andrew

June 17th, 2020, 12:26 PM	#5
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Data - and NAS drives Never thought of actually using remote screen control, but maybe that might work. I'll give it a go as soon as the broadband is connected next week. Seems sensible for my audio and video computers and my MacBook in my old working from home way of doing things - having instant access to everything would be useful there, but I guess access to this network drive from the new place might be OK for word processing, image editing and perhaps a bit of audio, but HD, let alone 4K down the line could be tricky, but I guess I need to try.

June 17th, 2020, 02:49 PM	#6
Jim Michael Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 895	Re: Data - and NAS drives I think one reason this becomes confusing is that there many routes to a solution. The variables are variable, so to speak. Low tech would be to carry an external drive with sufficient throughput to be practical for your needs, so that might entail a couple TB SSDs in a housing with either USB 3 or TB. That's cheap and decent performance. A high tech option is a microwave link between your two sites, which is actually affordable these days.(e.g. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801) if you have a clear shot and the dish aesthetics can be managed. We once needed to bring up large bandwidth connectivity between two data centers in a hurry and a microwave link saved the day. If your internet u/d bandwidth is sufficient for your needs another option is a VPN into your office, which would allow you to be on your network from any location. That's as fast as your internet bandwidth allows. A small NAS with 3 or 4 SSDs would be reasonably portable. Then you would have gigabit ethernet from the NAS to your system provided everything else is that fast. As for syncing things up, that should be scriptable if you have a consistent storage management protocol and workflow. If you don't code find someone who can set something up for you. It could be complex (two sites kept in sync) or simple as in moving changes from a portable drive. I've seen an example of trying to use those remote control system access applications (e.g. GoToMyPC) as a proxy for VPN and see how slow and limiting it can be, so would not recommend that.

June 18th, 2020, 12:50 AM	#7
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Data - and NAS drives Cheers Jim, I think I'm over thinking this. I think having one for central storage cabled will help me here, and I'll have to live with a local copy the other end if it cannot be done live via the net. I will just have to wait and see. I've ordered an 8Tb NAS so will use it in Raid 1 mode at home, whatever as it will make a lot of sense, then experiment with remote working as things arrive. Thanks all.