Tips on getting good slowmotion, at DVinfo.net

Andreas Fernbrant · November 11th, 2002, 03:21 AM

I need tips on doing a smooth slowmotion. Often It's not that good?
What are the limitations? How much has to be done on the camera?

Edit: I use DV 500, Sony DV Camera and Premiere 6.

I've never figured that part out fully. Thanks in advance!

/Andreas

Rob Lohman · November 11th, 2002, 04:56 AM

Well, I've done some slow motion tests (not very much or lengthy)
and it might be wise to use a faster shutter speed to get some
more clarity.

Anyone else has some more ideas?

Andreas Fernbrant · November 11th, 2002, 06:12 AM

Do you have them online so I can see your results and what settings you used?

Are there any semi proffesional cameras out there that can capture
more then 25, (29) frames per second?

Rob Lohman · November 11th, 2002, 10:22 AM

I don't have anything to show you since I just tested and tried
a bit. Never did keep the results. Sorry.

James Emory · November 11th, 2002, 08:14 PM

Howdy. Unforturnately there are several different ways to achieve smooth slow motion playback which means more trial and error. One that is described above is a good start, increasing shutter speed. This is called overcranking the camera in the film industry. If you have ever heard an Arri 435 screaming it's because its burning some major footage every second. When this film is played back at sound speed, it appears in slow motion. As far as your application, I typically choose a clip speed of 65%-75%, mostly 75% and then I apply the flicker remove feature. This removes some of the strobing that may occur. Other than that I think your going to have to spend some more money to achieve that super duper smooth, clear slow motion. Maybe the faster frame rate in conjunction with what I suggested would smooth it out even more.

Tylar Mccoy · November 12th, 2002, 03:09 AM

Im intrested in doing this too. I want to film my dog shaking off water and slow it down. But keep it really smooth. So you can clearly see all the water droplets and everything.

James Emory · November 12th, 2002, 03:27 AM

If you want to do that, I would definitely use the higher shutter speed to capture the droplets.

Andreas Fernbrant · November 12th, 2002, 03:39 AM

Well, my own thoughts may help too.

I never do slowmotion under 50% and I always turn on "flicker removal" When doing this it helps alot but it still gets blurry and you can see it
doubleing the frames (kind of jerky) It might help if you can use frame mode (I really don't know) But I have not tried the shutter speed thingy yet, It's the only thin I have not tried yet. It's not that I have bad slowmotion but I figure it could be better. I mean if you watch eurosport and it's live they still have awsome slowmotion on the replays (compared to me)

I'm going to try some shutter settings and see what works best.

Thanks all for great responses!

Julian Luttrell · November 12th, 2002, 04:44 AM

James,

overcranking and faster shutter speeds are different things.

You can adjust shutter speed on a DV camera - making it faster will result in less motion blur in each frame, at the expense of requiring you to open the iris to get the same exposure. But you cannot change the number of frames per second recorded (overcranking) - DV by definition is 25fps (PAL)/29.97 fps (NTSC).

When you slow down this DV footage you have to somehow interpolate new frames between the existing ones, and there are many different ways of doing this using NLE, or plugins, or hardware. Typically though, you get what you pay for here - smooth slow motion requires expensive software/hardware.

The only sort of cameras that will give you that crisp smooth slowmo are either film (overcranked) or horrendously expensive Thomson/Sony cinematography/HD jobs:) If you are using DV then you just won't get that Hollywood smoothness and crispness - sorry:)

Regards,

Julian

Bill Ravens · November 12th, 2002, 08:04 AM

here's a suggestion that's fairly easy to follow: Vegas Video 3 has a slow motion feature that allows selection of "resampling". This feature interpolates intermediate frames to make the frame rate consistent with the native frame rate of the entire clip. A great feature...and it really smooths out those jerky slomo's.

William Brunk · November 12th, 2002, 11:40 AM

I too am on a quest for better slo-mo. I use Virtualdub filters and an avs script to double the number of unique frames you can work with. Info for this process is at www.100fps.com.

Dylan Couper · November 12th, 2002, 03:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : here's a suggestion that's fairly easy to follow: Vegas Video 3 has a slow motion feature that allows selection of "resampling". This feature interpolates intermediate frames to make the frame rate consistent with the native frame rate of the entire clip. A great feature...and it really smooths out those jerky slomo's. -->>>

Hey Bill
Can you give us VV users a quick walk through on how to do that?
I've been just dragging a velocity enveloppe over it and grumbling quietly to myself about choppyness. :) BTW, I'm trying to get about 30% speed.

Bill Ravens · November 12th, 2002, 04:00 PM

EZ...

If you right click on the video track you want to resample...select "properties" in the window that opens. Once in the "properties" window, the default tab should be "Video Event". From this window, select the radio button..."RESAMPLE". Also, if you have noticed any flickering in highly detailed frames...like a shimmering...you can select the radio button "reduce interlace flicker" to do just that. It works great.

Good luck.

Dylan Couper · November 13th, 2002, 01:32 AM

Bill,
You Da Man!

James Emory · November 13th, 2002, 07:32 PM

Julian. Howdy. If you go back and read my post, you will see that I said "This is called overcranking the camera in the FILM industry." NOT video. I was just using a comparison of how slow motion is achieved.

November 11th, 2002, 03:21 AM	#1
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Tips on getting good slowmotion, I need tips on doing a smooth slowmotion. Often It's not that good? What are the limitations? How much has to be done on the camera? Edit: I use DV 500, Sony DV Camera and Premiere 6. I've never figured that part out fully. Thanks in advance! /Andreas

November 11th, 2002, 04:56 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Well, I've done some slow motion tests (not very much or lengthy) and it might be wise to use a faster shutter speed to get some more clarity. Anyone else has some more ideas? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 11th, 2002, 10:22 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I don't have anything to show you since I just tested and tried a bit. Never did keep the results. Sorry. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 11th, 2002, 08:14 PM	#5
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Slow Motion Howdy. Unforturnately there are several different ways to achieve smooth slow motion playback which means more trial and error. One that is described above is a good start, increasing shutter speed. This is called overcranking the camera in the film industry. If you have ever heard an Arri 435 screaming it's because its burning some major footage every second. When this film is played back at sound speed, it appears in slow motion. As far as your application, I typically choose a clip speed of 65%-75%, mostly 75% and then I apply the flicker remove feature. This removes some of the strobing that may occur. Other than that I think your going to have to spend some more money to achieve that super duper smooth, clear slow motion. Maybe the faster frame rate in conjunction with what I suggested would smooth it out even more.

November 12th, 2002, 03:27 AM	#7
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Water Droplets If you want to do that, I would definitely use the higher shutter speed to capture the droplets.

November 11th, 2002, 06:12 AM	#3
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Do you have them online so I can see your results and what settings you used? Are there any semi proffesional cameras out there that can capture more then 25, (29) frames per second?

November 12th, 2002, 03:09 AM	#6
Tylar Mccoy New Boot Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 18	Im intrested in doing this too. I want to film my dog shaking off water and slow it down. But keep it really smooth. So you can clearly see all the water droplets and everything.

November 12th, 2002, 03:39 AM	#8
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Well, my own thoughts may help too. I never do slowmotion under 50% and I always turn on "flicker removal" When doing this it helps alot but it still gets blurry and you can see it doubleing the frames (kind of jerky) It might help if you can use frame mode (I really don't know) But I have not tried the shutter speed thingy yet, It's the only thin I have not tried yet. It's not that I have bad slowmotion but I figure it could be better. I mean if you watch eurosport and it's live they still have awsome slowmotion on the replays (compared to me) I'm going to try some shutter settings and see what works best. Thanks all for great responses!

November 12th, 2002, 04:44 AM	#9
Julian Luttrell Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 164	Overcranking James, overcranking and faster shutter speeds are different things. You can adjust shutter speed on a DV camera - making it faster will result in less motion blur in each frame, at the expense of requiring you to open the iris to get the same exposure. But you cannot change the number of frames per second recorded (overcranking) - DV by definition is 25fps (PAL)/29.97 fps (NTSC). When you slow down this DV footage you have to somehow interpolate new frames between the existing ones, and there are many different ways of doing this using NLE, or plugins, or hardware. Typically though, you get what you pay for here - smooth slow motion requires expensive software/hardware. The only sort of cameras that will give you that crisp smooth slowmo are either film (overcranked) or horrendously expensive Thomson/Sony cinematography/HD jobs:) If you are using DV then you just won't get that Hollywood smoothness and crispness - sorry:) Regards, Julian

November 12th, 2002, 08:04 AM	#10
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	here's a suggestion that's fairly easy to follow: Vegas Video 3 has a slow motion feature that allows selection of "resampling". This feature interpolates intermediate frames to make the frame rate consistent with the native frame rate of the entire clip. A great feature...and it really smooths out those jerky slomo's.

November 12th, 2002, 11:40 AM	#11
William Brunk New Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 6	I too am on a quest for better slo-mo. I use Virtualdub filters and an avs script to double the number of unique frames you can work with. Info for this process is at www.100fps.com.

November 12th, 2002, 03:51 PM	#12
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : here's a suggestion that's fairly easy to follow: Vegas Video 3 has a slow motion feature that allows selection of "resampling". This feature interpolates intermediate frames to make the frame rate consistent with the native frame rate of the entire clip. A great feature...and it really smooths out those jerky slomo's. -->>> Hey Bill Can you give us VV users a quick walk through on how to do that? I've been just dragging a velocity enveloppe over it and grumbling quietly to myself about choppyness. :) BTW, I'm trying to get about 30% speed.

November 12th, 2002, 04:00 PM	#13
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	EZ... If you right click on the video track you want to resample...select "properties" in the window that opens. Once in the "properties" window, the default tab should be "Video Event". From this window, select the radio button..."RESAMPLE". Also, if you have noticed any flickering in highly detailed frames...like a shimmering...you can select the radio button "reduce interlace flicker" to do just that. It works great. Good luck.

November 13th, 2002, 01:32 AM	#14
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Bill, You Da Man!

November 13th, 2002, 07:32 PM	#15
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Overcranking Julian. Howdy. If you go back and read my post, you will see that I said "This is called overcranking the camera in the FILM industry." NOT video. I was just using a comparison of how slow motion is achieved.