Which should I get? at DVinfo.net

Ed Roo · October 28th, 2010, 10:02 AM

I am a Mac user who has a Windows XP box. I have the old version of Windows Movie Maker. When I connect the HV20 via firewire/1394, the computer recognizes the camera but Movie Maker does not. I did a search of the archives and found a thread that said Windows Movie Maker does not do HDV. If I purchase one of the software applications below, will they enable me to download HDV content from my HV20?
Which is the better of the two software applications?
I need to be able to download the content in a native format Windows will easily recognize to share with a friend who runs Windows.

Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite $89.99

or

Adobe Premiere Elements 9 (Win/Mac) $89.79

Jay West · October 28th, 2010, 11:00 AM

I'm not sure I understand your issue.

Is the problem that your Mac capture application will only let you capture from the HV20 by converting to a format (say, Quicktime "mov") that the other guy's computer can't read?

If all you want is to capture to the HDV as m2t, you should download HDVSplit. It is a free capture utility whose only function is to capture HDV to disk. (Do a search to find it.) It runs under XP. I used it for several years to capture from my HV20 (and other cams).

If the problem is that your collaborator can only work with "avi" files, try Cineform's NeoScene. There's a trial version on the CIneform web site. (I think the trial period is 15 days.) It runs under XP and can do capture and/or file conversion. If it works, you can buy it for $99.

Or, is the idea that you two want to use matching Windows-based NLEs? Both the Adobe and Sony apps will capture HDV from an HV20. Check the websites to be sure your computers meet the minimum specs for things like having enough RAM and suitably updated WinXP. I'm not familiar with either app but suspect they each require XP SP3 to run under XP.

As to which would be "better" for you, that's such a subjective judgment I don't think there's any way to really give you a meaningful answer. Better you should download the free trial versions and see which you like (or don't like) working with. Be aware that the Adobe trial version probably has the HDV/AVCHD features disabled. (That is what Adobe does with the CS5 trial version.)

Adam Gold · October 28th, 2010, 11:14 AM

I think the Mac reference is a red herring that sent us down the wrong path. Ed, you're not using the Mac at all in this process, right? Just the XP box? You normally use a Mac but also have a separate XP box, not a Mac configured to run XP as well?

If that's the case, then yes, the old WMM does not do HDV, but both of the other apps you mentioned do, and do a good job of it. Either would be fine, but they have different workflows and interfaces, so you should try them both out to see which you like better.

Ed Roo · October 28th, 2010, 12:08 PM

What I need to do is download the tapes into a format that can be read by Windows video NLEs. The Quicktime files generated on my Mac's are incompatible with the Windows NLEs my friends use.

I have unable to figure out how to make HDVSplit work. I did download it and start to run it, but it complained that I needed additional software to run. I downloaded that file, also, but I don't know how to combine the contents of the two extracted applications.
Do they all go into a single folder in the Programs folder?
I couldn't find any instructions on how to use these programs together.

Adam Gold · October 28th, 2010, 12:16 PM

It still isn't clear what you mean. Yes, we get you need your files in a PC format, but it still isn't clear whether you are using a dual-OS Mac with Win on it, or a separate PC.

Again, either of the NLEs you mentioned in your first post will work on a PC, and I would assume on a dual OS Mac as well, but then I know nothing about Macs.

Ed Roo · October 28th, 2010, 12:40 PM

It is a circa 2002 Sony Viao Windows XP tower. 3GHz Intel single core processor, 2.5GB RAM.

Jay West · October 28th, 2010, 03:07 PM

Ed:

I might be able to help better if you could give us the exact error message and the exact name of the additional "software" you downloaded? I've never run into this with HDVSplit, and it has been a while since I've used XP, but my suspicion would be that the error message was something about either lacking a "dll" file or needing an updated driver of some kind.

Also, another thought occurred to me ask about the programs your friends are using for their NLEs. Will their NLEs accept HDV? You've probably verified this but it does not hurt to ask.

Jay West · October 28th, 2010, 03:14 PM

Also, a couple of other thoughts.

How long has it been since you ran Windows Update on that Sony Vaio?

What version of HDV Split did you download? Was it 0.77?

Jay West · October 28th, 2010, 03:33 PM

And, speaking of the obvious, how have you been trying to pass the Quicktime files from your Mac to your friends' PCs? My recollection is that each QT video clips on Apple machines used to have a seprate video and data file while the PC version combined both into a single file. If you copied just the video file to a disk or flash drive, or exported it straight from I-movie to disk, the PCs might not have been able to read the resulting files.

If that was the issue, you (or your friends) might want to look at getting Quicktime Pro, which is only about $30.00. There may have been plug-ins for saving the files as mpeg-2 streams which many Windows-based NLEs can read.

Michael Wisniewski · October 28th, 2010, 06:20 PM

Ed,

Yes, Vegas Movie Studio and Premiere Elements will capture HDV into a file format that can be read by Windows PCs. Check the technical specs of the software to make sure it will run properly on your Windows computer.

Ed Roo · October 28th, 2010, 07:19 PM

I prefaced with "I am a Mac guy" because I don't know how to install the various components of Windows files manually.
I do not know what NLEs my friends have and use (recently learned one uses Pinnacle), only that they are basic Windows applications.
I have Quicktime Pro on my Macs, including the mpeg2 capability, but not on my XP box.

I downloaded the following:
HDVSplit.0.77StaticBeta
and
ffdshow-2002617-src

I have XP SP3; updates are performed the usual 2nd Tuesday and when special updates are released.
I am using an external USB hard drive to transfer files. This poses a problem with the 5GB file size limitation of FAT32.
I copyied the downloaded *.mov files from my Mac to the USB drive and sent them. He could hear the audio portion but could not display the video portion of the files.
I thought about purchasing Quicktime Pro for the XP box. $29 for QTP + $29 for the mpeg2 app.
For now, if I can get HDVSplit working, that would be the least expensive option.

If you can advise me how to install it that would be great.
When I double click on the compressed files, they open in a Stuffit Extractor window. What to I do with them?

Jay West · October 29th, 2010, 01:27 AM

Okay, I think I understand what the problems are.

For now, let's skip trying to do additional capture on the PC and go back to your Mac and QT Pro. Open one of the captured files with QT Pro and do a "save as" to the USB drive. This time, make sure you check the box/line for "self-contained movie." That should be what you need for a Quicktime file to play on a PC. If your friend is using "Pinnacle" --- which I'm guessing is Pinnacle Studio versions 10 or later --- he should already have Quicktime in his system.

Since you mentioned that your QT Pro has have mpeg2 capability, I suggest you also try a "Save-as" to an MPEG 2 file.

If either of the above works, you don't need to mess with the Vaio.

If you do need to mess with the Vaio, my first thought is the ffdshow file is supposed to be self-extracting, so it may already have installed when you double-clicked on it. Try running HDVSplit again and see if it works now.

If not, there are a lot of things I could try stepping you through but it is late, it has been a while since I've used XP (so I can't pull screen shots for you), and I have no way of knowing how you've set-up your computer (which means explanations of possibilities would be verbose, kind of like trying to write down the directions for how to make a left turn.) Rather than go through that exercise, how about this as a temporary work-around: can you just play back your video to a tape in your HV20 and give the duplicate tape to the guy with the Pinnacle NLE?

Ed Roo · October 29th, 2010, 06:56 AM

"Rather than go through that exercise, how about this as a temporary work-around: can you just play back your video to a tape in your HV20 and give the duplicate tape to the guy with the Pinnacle NLE? "

LOL! Now you are making too much sense!
I will give the QTPro a try. That seems to be the path of least resistance.
Does it matter what codec the original file is saved as?

Jay West · October 29th, 2010, 02:28 PM

As long as your Mac will let you print (or "export" or "play") HDV to tape codecs won't make any perceptible difference to any other basic NLE. Your are recording HDV not Quicktime to the tape just as you did when you shot the tape. Just be sure you are getting HDV out and not just DV.

How did the QT Pro test go?

Another suggestion if you really want to try the Vaio again: try downloading a trial of Cineform NeoScene and using the HDLink application to try to capture m2t (or avi if you prefer) and dumping that to disk.

Ed Roo · October 30th, 2010, 07:02 AM

The Mac successfully converted the files to Mpeg2 format.
So I will send it off and see if my friend's Pinnacle software will successfully allow it to be edited.

Another related question, if I may?
One of the files is 5.28 Gb. How do I split that file for conversion?
Do I use Final Cut Pro and find an edit point approximately mid-way through, creating two clips, and saving each clip, then converting them?
Or is there a simpler way?

Thanks for all the help, I greatly appreciate it.

October 28th, 2010, 10:02 AM	#1
Ed Roo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Columbus USA Posts: 312	Which should I get? I am a Mac user who has a Windows XP box. I have the old version of Windows Movie Maker. When I connect the HV20 via firewire/1394, the computer recognizes the camera but Movie Maker does not. I did a search of the archives and found a thread that said Windows Movie Maker does not do HDV. If I purchase one of the software applications below, will they enable me to download HDV content from my HV20? Which is the better of the two software applications? I need to be able to download the content in a native format Windows will easily recognize to share with a friend who runs Windows. Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite $89.99 or Adobe Premiere Elements 9 (Win/Mac) $89.79

October 28th, 2010, 11:14 AM	#3
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I think the Mac reference is a red herring that sent us down the wrong path. Ed, you're not using the Mac at all in this process, right? Just the XP box? You normally use a Mac but also have a separate XP box, not a Mac configured to run XP as well? If that's the case, then yes, the old WMM does not do HDV, but both of the other apps you mentioned do, and do a good job of it. Either would be fine, but they have different workflows and interfaces, so you should try them both out to see which you like better. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

October 28th, 2010, 12:16 PM	#5
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	It still isn't clear what you mean. Yes, we get you need your files in a PC format, but it still isn't clear whether you are using a dual-OS Mac with Win on it, or a separate PC. Again, either of the NLEs you mentioned in your first post will work on a PC, and I would assume on a dual OS Mac as well, but then I know nothing about Macs. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

October 28th, 2010, 07:19 PM	#11
Ed Roo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Columbus USA Posts: 312	I prefaced with "I am a Mac guy" because I don't know how to install the various components of Windows files manually. I do not know what NLEs my friends have and use (recently learned one uses Pinnacle), only that they are basic Windows applications. I have Quicktime Pro on my Macs, including the mpeg2 capability, but not on my XP box. I downloaded the following: HDVSplit.0.77StaticBeta and ffdshow-2002617-src I have XP SP3; updates are performed the usual 2nd Tuesday and when special updates are released. I am using an external USB hard drive to transfer files. This poses a problem with the 5GB file size limitation of FAT32. I copyied the downloaded .mov files from my Mac to the USB drive and sent them. He could hear the audio portion but could not display the video portion of the files. I thought about purchasing Quicktime Pro for the XP box. $29 for QTP + $29 for the mpeg2 app. For now, if I can get HDVSplit working, that would be the least expensive option. If you can advise me how to install it that would be great. When I double click on the compressed files, they open in a Stuffit Extractor window. What to I do with them? Last edited by Ed Roo; October 28th, 2010 at 08:37 PM. Reason: update*

October 28th, 2010, 11:00 AM	#2
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	I'm not sure I understand your issue. Is the problem that your Mac capture application will only let you capture from the HV20 by converting to a format (say, Quicktime "mov") that the other guy's computer can't read? If all you want is to capture to the HDV as m2t, you should download HDVSplit. It is a free capture utility whose only function is to capture HDV to disk. (Do a search to find it.) It runs under XP. I used it for several years to capture from my HV20 (and other cams). If the problem is that your collaborator can only work with "avi" files, try Cineform's NeoScene. There's a trial version on the CIneform web site. (I think the trial period is 15 days.) It runs under XP and can do capture and/or file conversion. If it works, you can buy it for $99. Or, is the idea that you two want to use matching Windows-based NLEs? Both the Adobe and Sony apps will capture HDV from an HV20. Check the websites to be sure your computers meet the minimum specs for things like having enough RAM and suitably updated WinXP. I'm not familiar with either app but suspect they each require XP SP3 to run under XP. As to which would be "better" for you, that's such a subjective judgment I don't think there's any way to really give you a meaningful answer. Better you should download the free trial versions and see which you like (or don't like) working with. Be aware that the Adobe trial version probably has the HDV/AVCHD features disabled. (That is what Adobe does with the CS5 trial version.)

October 28th, 2010, 12:08 PM	#4
Ed Roo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Columbus USA Posts: 312	What I need to do is download the tapes into a format that can be read by Windows video NLEs. The Quicktime files generated on my Mac's are incompatible with the Windows NLEs my friends use. I have unable to figure out how to make HDVSplit work. I did download it and start to run it, but it complained that I needed additional software to run. I downloaded that file, also, but I don't know how to combine the contents of the two extracted applications. Do they all go into a single folder in the Programs folder? I couldn't find any instructions on how to use these programs together.

October 28th, 2010, 12:40 PM	#6
Ed Roo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Columbus USA Posts: 312	It is a circa 2002 Sony Viao Windows XP tower. 3GHz Intel single core processor, 2.5GB RAM.

October 28th, 2010, 03:07 PM	#7
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Ed: I might be able to help better if you could give us the exact error message and the exact name of the additional "software" you downloaded? I've never run into this with HDVSplit, and it has been a while since I've used XP, but my suspicion would be that the error message was something about either lacking a "dll" file or needing an updated driver of some kind. Also, another thought occurred to me ask about the programs your friends are using for their NLEs. Will their NLEs accept HDV? You've probably verified this but it does not hurt to ask.

October 28th, 2010, 03:14 PM	#8
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Also, a couple of other thoughts. How long has it been since you ran Windows Update on that Sony Vaio? What version of HDV Split did you download? Was it 0.77?

October 28th, 2010, 03:33 PM	#9
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	And, speaking of the obvious, how have you been trying to pass the Quicktime files from your Mac to your friends' PCs? My recollection is that each QT video clips on Apple machines used to have a seprate video and data file while the PC version combined both into a single file. If you copied just the video file to a disk or flash drive, or exported it straight from I-movie to disk, the PCs might not have been able to read the resulting files. If that was the issue, you (or your friends) might want to look at getting Quicktime Pro, which is only about $30.00. There may have been plug-ins for saving the files as mpeg-2 streams which many Windows-based NLEs can read.

October 28th, 2010, 06:20 PM	#10
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Ed, Yes, Vegas Movie Studio and Premiere Elements will capture HDV into a file format that can be read by Windows PCs. Check the technical specs of the software to make sure it will run properly on your Windows computer.

October 29th, 2010, 01:27 AM	#12
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Okay, I think I understand what the problems are. For now, let's skip trying to do additional capture on the PC and go back to your Mac and QT Pro. Open one of the captured files with QT Pro and do a "save as" to the USB drive. This time, make sure you check the box/line for "self-contained movie." That should be what you need for a Quicktime file to play on a PC. If your friend is using "Pinnacle" --- which I'm guessing is Pinnacle Studio versions 10 or later --- he should already have Quicktime in his system. Since you mentioned that your QT Pro has have mpeg2 capability, I suggest you also try a "Save-as" to an MPEG 2 file. If either of the above works, you don't need to mess with the Vaio. If you do need to mess with the Vaio, my first thought is the ffdshow file is supposed to be self-extracting, so it may already have installed when you double-clicked on it. Try running HDVSplit again and see if it works now. If not, there are a lot of things I could try stepping you through but it is late, it has been a while since I've used XP (so I can't pull screen shots for you), and I have no way of knowing how you've set-up your computer (which means explanations of possibilities would be verbose, kind of like trying to write down the directions for how to make a left turn.) Rather than go through that exercise, how about this as a temporary work-around: can you just play back your video to a tape in your HV20 and give the duplicate tape to the guy with the Pinnacle NLE?

October 29th, 2010, 06:56 AM	#13
Ed Roo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Columbus USA Posts: 312	"Rather than go through that exercise, how about this as a temporary work-around: can you just play back your video to a tape in your HV20 and give the duplicate tape to the guy with the Pinnacle NLE? " LOL! Now you are making too much sense! I will give the QTPro a try. That seems to be the path of least resistance. Does it matter what codec the original file is saved as?

October 29th, 2010, 02:28 PM	#14
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	As long as your Mac will let you print (or "export" or "play") HDV to tape codecs won't make any perceptible difference to any other basic NLE. Your are recording HDV not Quicktime to the tape just as you did when you shot the tape. Just be sure you are getting HDV out and not just DV. How did the QT Pro test go? Another suggestion if you really want to try the Vaio again: try downloading a trial of Cineform NeoScene and using the HDLink application to try to capture m2t (or avi if you prefer) and dumping that to disk.

October 30th, 2010, 07:02 AM	#15
Ed Roo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Columbus USA Posts: 312	The Mac successfully converted the files to Mpeg2 format. So I will send it off and see if my friend's Pinnacle software will successfully allow it to be edited. Another related question, if I may? One of the files is 5.28 Gb. How do I split that file for conversion? Do I use Final Cut Pro and find an edit point approximately mid-way through, creating two clips, and saving each clip, then converting them? Or is there a simpler way? Thanks for all the help, I greatly appreciate it.