Premiere pro CS3 vs CS5 is it worth the trouble?

Tim Kolb · October 13th, 2010, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay West

...and also (like Tim) I happily use a Matrox Mini for an external display . I have found CS5 much preferable to CS3.
.

Actually, I use AJA products myself.

Over the last three Adobe releases, my personal experience with helping people unravel Adobe PPro/Production Premium problems seems to have been Matrox-related vs. any other 3rd party I/O solution in an overwhelming majority of instances, so no, I am not using a Matrox mini.

Now...maybe that's because the issues are because the workflow isn't documented as well as it could be...maybe it's because there happens to be some unknown software conflict with some other popular piece of production software...or with a hardware component...obviously many users are using Matrox products without issue, so I have trouble believing that the product is somehow fundamentally flawed, but in the majority of these circumstances, bypassing or sometimes uninstalling the Matrox product made the whole system suddenly snap out of its funk.

Anyway...the short story is that uninstalling the Matrox mini and seeing if the PPro crash problems persist would be my first step in tracking what the problem is for a system like Ron's...until he starts to troubleshoot the system and actually narrows down where the crashing problem is...the system will continue to perform as it has.

Jay West · October 13th, 2010, 12:17 PM

Sorry, Tim, I though you were using the Mini. The AJA products are a step up.

Agreed on the problem solving.

I just suggested a some preliminary steps for trying to isolate the problem. Before going to the hassle of pulling the hardware, I would only suggest some other steps.

1. Ron should be sure that he has the latest Matrox Utils installed. In the US, I think that would be ver. 3.0.1. The 2.x versions were problematic for some PPro CS5 users.

2. Try non-Matrox-presets for sequences, particularly when using AVCHD. If instability goes away, then try uninstalling the Matrox software and hardware. If the instability problem persists, then it is something in PPro not the mini. If the problem goes away then, it was the Mini.

3. If the problem goes away after unistalling the Mini software and hardware, it could be: (a) he had a defective unit; (b) there is something incompatible in his system with the Mini or (c) he might have run into one of the peculiarities of the Mini which is that Matrox tells you to uninstall the Mini software before installing new versions of Premiere and then reinstall it afterwards. It is possible that Ron has upgraded to PPro CS 5.2 and the Mini software takes that as a new program.

4. If Ron wants to try a different NLE, I'd suggest a trial version of Edius. If he has stability problems with Edius, then he's got a computer hardware issue.

Interesting as this is, I'm afraid we're getting a bit off the OP's topic, which is whether there would be any benefit to him trying to run Win7 and CS5 on his 4 year old Dell.

Tim Kolb · October 13th, 2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay West

Interesting as this is, I'm afraid we're getting a bit off the OP's topic, which is whether there would be any benefit to him trying to run Win7 and CS5 on his 4 year old Dell.

I have to agree on that..

Dale Anthony Smith · November 1st, 2010, 05:25 AM

Hi... I'm having the same dilemma... I have a nice twin processor 3.2ghz xeon 2Tb raid5 edit system running XP pro anc CS5.

I just pre ordered the new Panasonic AF100, so I'm thinking I might need to run CS5 to edit AVC natively.
The plan at this point is to cannibalize the raid from the CS3 system and place it either in the new 64bit box or externally... I plan to keep the old CS3 machine running through the transition... but I was thinking of keeping it around as a backup.

The question is about a "safety backup" in case the 64bit machine dies with an impending deadline, can I use CS3 to complete the project if I have saved the project and project files on an outboard drive as a safety...
Can CS5 save as to an earlier version as a safety? (like Microsoft Word for example)

Brad Parlor at Tapeworks Texas is recommending an HP workstation that they would optimize and set up with CS5 and all the necessary drivers etc... for a "turn key" edit system. BTW, they recommend the Matrox Mini as a breakout box and for monitoring...

What to y'all think?

Thanks in advance

Dale

Jay West · November 1st, 2010, 01:18 PM

While CS4/CS5 can open CS3 projects, I don't believe that CS3 can open CS4/CS5 projects, particularly when they include native AVHCD files.

However, the CS5 package also includes a version of PPro CS4. This was done to allow users to upgrade from CS3 on 32 bit systems such as your old XP box. The Adobe license lets you load programs on two computers as long as you don't use the software simultaneously. I know that CS4 will open CS5 projects since I have done that. When you get your new system, I'd suggest that you install the CS4 on you old XP system. You don't have to uninstall CS3 and can still run it if you want to even after you've installed CS4.

You asked for comments on having Tapeworks configure an HP system for you. This is probably the wrong thread in which to ask for useful feedback. You would be better served by starting a new thread, either here or maybe in the "Non-Linear Editing on the PC" forum. Include the proposed system specs and details about your editing plans and ask for feedback. I have the impression that there are a number of knowledgeable DVinfo members who use HP workstations and could better answer any questions you might have.

As far as the Matrox Mini, you know (from above) that I am mostly satisfied with mine. Having Tapeworks configure it for you with CS5 on a new system will be expensive but doubtless avoids the possibility of the kinds of problems that some have encountered and discussed above. I believe I have read several postings from folks who use a Mini with HPZ800 twin-quadcore workstations.

John Gerard · November 3rd, 2010, 12:17 PM

Hi,
IMHO using CS3 I used to have crashing all the time. Now only some times. In my experience I would go back and make sure the drivers especially graphics driver is indeed PPro CS5 certified. This may not be the latest version of the driver. Check Adobe's site if you have not done so already. Also, on the discussion I started here once I broke up my project into smaller parts things just worked better. That is my thinking on going to 64bit. For awhile I was getting read/write errors on my RAID 0 2 drive project disk. I found out after many months of work on this issue that the drives have to not only be the same size but have to be identical in every other specification. So if I use a WD Carver black drive I have to use the exact same drive as the second drive.
I hope some of this help.

John Gerard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Little

I am glad you guys are having a good experience with CS5. I am just saying that has not been my experience. I spent a considerable amount of money on a new system built to run CS5 and have just not been that thrilled with it. It crashes daily. I will just have to live with it until I get the bugs worked out or something better comes along. I hear Vegas is a good program.
I get what you are saying about I/O gear. It would have been a nice touch if they would have made it work with windows media player.

John Gerard · November 3rd, 2010, 12:43 PM

Hi again,

This is a good discussion and good comments. I am still going to use CS3 for a little while until I get some current projects finished. I just think a 64bit program will run all around a little more efficient and maybe a little bit faster than the 32bit version. If I upgrade to 64bit I will be upgrading to CS5 that is a given. And upgrading RAM. RAM is pretty cheep. My system can handle 32GB. Has anyone run CS5 on Windows XP 64bit. If it work good then I will go that way. I tried upgrading my Sony notebook single P4 2.8Ghz CPU and 1GB RAM. It worked ok but slow at any graphics intensive type tasks.

John Gerard

John Gerard · November 3rd, 2010, 02:59 PM

Hi yet again,
For those of you that are using CS5 what if any features were added to speed up editing. Mainly for routine tasks. Being able to cut down significantly or eliminate routine tasks like adding transitions and some other tasks that I can't think of right now would really save me 2-5 hours of editing. These are tasks that the computer could do quite well and is timeconsuming and boring taking me off the creating process. Plus getting my projects done quicker. Right now in my project I want to create an intro. that uses very short clips for high energy. I would like to be able to do something like select in and out points then hit copy between in/out point, then past to the beginning of the time line. Right now I have to cut the clip then copy, then past. I don't want to have to cut the main clip in the time line to do this. I know that I can do it another way by cutting the clip/ section out of the source monitor but this is not the most efficient way to go about it.

John Gerard

Dale Anthony Smith · November 3rd, 2010, 11:04 PM

To John and Jay,
Just wanted to thank you for the replies. I am looking forward to CS5, but am dreading the transition process. One thing that is going to be nice is the rendering in the background as opposed to having to stop everything and wait on it.

I have pretty much decided on having my new box built locally by the guy who built my current one. If it breaks, I can drive it over and have him look at it. In addiiton, he is going to make my present system a dual boot. One with 64bit while keeping the CS3 32bit drive still working.

Your suggestion about installing CS4 is much appreciated, I will be doing that on both my current workstation as well as my "big" laptop (Dell M2010) which is a great machine for client on-tite demos and tweaks in their office.

I will be combing the archives here to glean valuable nuggets of wisdom to help in the build..... "search".....
Best Regards
Dale

Jay West · November 3rd, 2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Gerard

Hi yet again,
For those of you that are using CS5 what if any features were added to speed up editing. Mainly for routine tasks. Being able to cut down significantly or eliminate routine tasks like adding transitions and some other tasks that I can't think of right now would really save me 2-5 hours of editing. These are tasks that the computer could do quite well and is timeconsuming and boring taking me off the creating process. Plus getting my projects done quicker. Right now in my project I want to create an intro. that uses very short clips for high energy. I would like to be able to do something like select in and out points then hit copy between in/out point, then past to the beginning of the time line. Right now I have to cut the clip then copy, then past. I don't want to have to cut the main clip in the time line to do this. I know that I can do it another way by cutting the clip/ section out of the source monitor but this is not the most efficient way to go about it.

John Gerard

I'd suggest you post your question in the Adobe Froum where you will be more likely to get help from people who do the kinds of things you do. I mostly do mult-cam editing, and am not sure that what I do would be relevant to the kind of editing you are doing.

Mike McCarthy · November 8th, 2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Gerard

Has anyone run CS5 on Windows XP 64bit. If it work good then I will go that way.
John Gerard

Unfortunately Adobe deliberately disabled installation on XP64, which is still my favorite OS. Supposedly much of the new 64bit code was specifically written to run on Vista and Win7 (Using those shared libraries and DLLs and such) I definitely tried to make XP64 work with CS5, but eventually upgraded our entire facility to Win7-64 instead. We have been quite happy with the final result.

John Gerard · November 10th, 2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay West

I'd suggest you post your question in the Adobe Froum where you will be more likely to get help from people who do the kinds of things you do. I mostly do mult-cam editing, and am not sure that what I do would be relevant to the kind of editing you are doing.

Thanks, I am curious about the above. Is CS5 still limited to 4 different multi-cam views? I am thinking of doing a project that will include 6 different views.

John Gerard

John Gerard · November 10th, 2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike McCarthy

Unfortunately Adobe deliberately disabled installation on XP64, which is still my favorite OS. Supposedly much of the new 64bit code was specifically written to run on Vista and Win7 (Using those shared libraries and DLLs and such) I definitely tried to make XP64 work with CS5, but eventually upgraded our entire facility to Win7-64 instead. We have been quite happy with the final result.

Thanks, for adding that information. I would not have thought of that issue. I already have Windows 7. I got the 3 license family pack that included both the 32bit and 64bit versions. But I will have to spend some time checking my system for needed drivers, etc. I think I will probably need a new Graphics card at least.

John Gerard

Adam Gold · November 10th, 2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Gerard

Is CS5 still limited to 4 different multi-cam views? I am thinking of doing a project that will include 6 different views.

Yes. If you want to do more than 4 you need to do it in two passes with two different nested sequences.

Jay West · November 10th, 2010, 03:55 PM

Following up on what Adam said, I use that method when I am working with dance and stage performances where I need to mix perfromances from two different times.

Where I have shot one event with more than 4 cameras, I often have at least two tracks for cut-aways that I do not need to see all the time. (For example, in a shooting weddings in large venues, I may have one camera stashed in the back or a different room to catch folks as they are waiting to enter the processional and, later, to catch them right after the recessional. Likewise, when musicians are placed away from the main action in a place where it is hard for me to record them or the audio with the main camera, I may stash a camera close to them). For those kinds of cut-aways, I often have the multi-cam sequence on track 1 and the other one or two above it on tracks 2 and 3. I can refer to them when my main cams do not have a shot.

Otherwise, if you want to do the equivalent of live mix with more than four multi-cam panels, you need to look elsewhere than CS5. I suggest Edius 6 or Vegas 10 as alternatives. I think Vegas will do up to 12 tracks and Edius will do 8 or 9. Avid MC5 will do up to nine tracks, but: (a) it is a lot more expensive --- although it was was available at an 80% discount to upgrade Avid Liquid which was EOL, I do not know if that deal is still available; (b) the hardware requirements are pretty steep; and (c) it will have a pretty steep learning curve.

November 1st, 2010, 05:25 AM	#19
Dale Anthony Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New Orleans Posts: 44	Premiere pro CS3 vs CS5 is it worth the trouble? Hi... I'm having the same dilemma... I have a nice twin processor 3.2ghz xeon 2Tb raid5 edit system running XP pro anc CS5. I just pre ordered the new Panasonic AF100, so I'm thinking I might need to run CS5 to edit AVC natively. The plan at this point is to cannibalize the raid from the CS3 system and place it either in the new 64bit box or externally... I plan to keep the old CS3 machine running through the transition... but I was thinking of keeping it around as a backup. The question is about a "safety backup" in case the 64bit machine dies with an impending deadline, can I use CS3 to complete the project if I have saved the project and project files on an outboard drive as a safety... Can CS5 save as to an earlier version as a safety? (like Microsoft Word for example) Brad Parlor at Tapeworks Texas is recommending an HP workstation that they would optimize and set up with CS5 and all the necessary drivers etc... for a "turn key" edit system. BTW, they recommend the Matrox Mini as a breakout box and for monitoring... What to y'all think? Thanks in advance Dale __________________ Multi-Media

November 3rd, 2010, 12:43 PM	#22
John Gerard Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 227	CS3 Vs CS5 Hi again, This is a good discussion and good comments. I am still going to use CS3 for a little while until I get some current projects finished. I just think a 64bit program will run all around a little more efficient and maybe a little bit faster than the 32bit version. If I upgrade to 64bit I will be upgrading to CS5 that is a given. And upgrading RAM. RAM is pretty cheep. My system can handle 32GB. Has anyone run CS5 on Windows XP 64bit. If it work good then I will go that way. I tried upgrading my Sony notebook single P4 2.8Ghz CPU and 1GB RAM. It worked ok but slow at any graphics intensive type tasks. John Gerard

November 3rd, 2010, 02:59 PM	#23
John Gerard Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 227	CS3 Vs CS5 Hi yet again, For those of you that are using CS5 what if any features were added to speed up editing. Mainly for routine tasks. Being able to cut down significantly or eliminate routine tasks like adding transitions and some other tasks that I can't think of right now would really save me 2-5 hours of editing. These are tasks that the computer could do quite well and is timeconsuming and boring taking me off the creating process. Plus getting my projects done quicker. Right now in my project I want to create an intro. that uses very short clips for high energy. I would like to be able to do something like select in and out points then hit copy between in/out point, then past to the beginning of the time line. Right now I have to cut the clip then copy, then past. I don't want to have to cut the main clip in the time line to do this. I know that I can do it another way by cutting the clip/ section out of the source monitor but this is not the most efficient way to go about it. John Gerard

November 3rd, 2010, 11:04 PM	#24
Dale Anthony Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New Orleans Posts: 44	To John and Jay, Just wanted to thank you for the replies. I am looking forward to CS5, but am dreading the transition process. One thing that is going to be nice is the rendering in the background as opposed to having to stop everything and wait on it. I have pretty much decided on having my new box built locally by the guy who built my current one. If it breaks, I can drive it over and have him look at it. In addiiton, he is going to make my present system a dual boot. One with 64bit while keeping the CS3 32bit drive still working. Your suggestion about installing CS4 is much appreciated, I will be doing that on both my current workstation as well as my "big" laptop (Dell M2010) which is a great machine for client on-tite demos and tweaks in their office. I will be combing the archives here to glean valuable nuggets of wisdom to help in the build..... "search"..... Best Regards Dale __________________ Multi-Media

October 13th, 2010, 12:17 PM	#17
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Sorry, Tim, I though you were using the Mini. The AJA products are a step up. Agreed on the problem solving. I just suggested a some preliminary steps for trying to isolate the problem. Before going to the hassle of pulling the hardware, I would only suggest some other steps. 1. Ron should be sure that he has the latest Matrox Utils installed. In the US, I think that would be ver. 3.0.1. The 2.x versions were problematic for some PPro CS5 users. 2. Try non-Matrox-presets for sequences, particularly when using AVCHD. If instability goes away, then try uninstalling the Matrox software and hardware. If the instability problem persists, then it is something in PPro not the mini. If the problem goes away then, it was the Mini. 3. If the problem goes away after unistalling the Mini software and hardware, it could be: (a) he had a defective unit; (b) there is something incompatible in his system with the Mini or (c) he might have run into one of the peculiarities of the Mini which is that Matrox tells you to uninstall the Mini software before installing new versions of Premiere and then reinstall it afterwards. It is possible that Ron has upgraded to PPro CS 5.2 and the Mini software takes that as a new program. 4. If Ron wants to try a different NLE, I'd suggest a trial version of Edius. If he has stability problems with Edius, then he's got a computer hardware issue. Interesting as this is, I'm afraid we're getting a bit off the OP's topic, which is whether there would be any benefit to him trying to run Win7 and CS5 on his 4 year old Dell.

November 1st, 2010, 01:18 PM	#20
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	While CS4/CS5 can open CS3 projects, I don't believe that CS3 can open CS4/CS5 projects, particularly when they include native AVHCD files. However, the CS5 package also includes a version of PPro CS4. This was done to allow users to upgrade from CS3 on 32 bit systems such as your old XP box. The Adobe license lets you load programs on two computers as long as you don't use the software simultaneously. I know that CS4 will open CS5 projects since I have done that. When you get your new system, I'd suggest that you install the CS4 on you old XP system. You don't have to uninstall CS3 and can still run it if you want to even after you've installed CS4. You asked for comments on having Tapeworks configure an HP system for you. This is probably the wrong thread in which to ask for useful feedback. You would be better served by starting a new thread, either here or maybe in the "Non-Linear Editing on the PC" forum. Include the proposed system specs and details about your editing plans and ask for feedback. I have the impression that there are a number of knowledgeable DVinfo members who use HP workstations and could better answer any questions you might have. As far as the Matrox Mini, you know (from above) that I am mostly satisfied with mine. Having Tapeworks configure it for you with CS5 on a new system will be expensive but doubtless avoids the possibility of the kinds of problems that some have encountered and discussed above. I believe I have read several postings from folks who use a Mini with HPZ800 twin-quadcore workstations.

November 10th, 2010, 03:55 PM	#30
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Following up on what Adam said, I use that method when I am working with dance and stage performances where I need to mix perfromances from two different times. Where I have shot one event with more than 4 cameras, I often have at least two tracks for cut-aways that I do not need to see all the time. (For example, in a shooting weddings in large venues, I may have one camera stashed in the back or a different room to catch folks as they are waiting to enter the processional and, later, to catch them right after the recessional. Likewise, when musicians are placed away from the main action in a place where it is hard for me to record them or the audio with the main camera, I may stash a camera close to them). For those kinds of cut-aways, I often have the multi-cam sequence on track 1 and the other one or two above it on tracks 2 and 3. I can refer to them when my main cams do not have a shot. Otherwise, if you want to do the equivalent of live mix with more than four multi-cam panels, you need to look elsewhere than CS5. I suggest Edius 6 or Vegas 10 as alternatives. I think Vegas will do up to 12 tracks and Edius will do 8 or 9. Avid MC5 will do up to nine tracks, but: (a) it is a lot more expensive --- although it was was available at an 80% discount to upgrade Avid Liquid which was EOL, I do not know if that deal is still available; (b) the hardware requirements are pretty steep; and (c) it will have a pretty steep learning curve.