Advice needed on a RAM upgrade

Mike McCarthy · November 17th, 2009, 03:29 PM

I have avoided messing with page file settings to much since you can screw things up more than I want to by experimenting, but what about having no page file? With 8GB Ram following the 1.5 rule you should have a 12GB pagefile. If you upgrade to 20GB, setting you pagefile to zero will give you the same amount of available "memory" to windows as you had before, but it will all be high speed. Is there any disadvantage to turning off the page file (besides limiting the "memory" available to your OS) related to stability, compatability, etc? It seems like that would be the ideal way to operate, especially if you are getting up there with 24 or 32GB of RAM. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Harm Millaard · November 17th, 2009, 04:36 PM

Mike,

While theoretically correct, there is one problem: Windows insists on having a pagefile and if one can not be found, it will automatically create a Windows managed one on your C drive.

In previous versions, Windows was not clever enough to use the pagefile only when running out of faster memory, but with the amount of installed memory now growing rapidly, one would hope that the intelligence of when and how to use the pagefile would also increase. I admit this is only hope, not substantiated fact.

John Hewat · November 17th, 2009, 05:32 PM

So the best bet might be a small (4GB? or even 2GB?) page file?

Steve Kalle · November 17th, 2009, 06:40 PM

From my experience with Page file, its better to have more than less. If it all is used, the system will come to a screeching halt. I used Kaspersky anti-virus and its 2008 version had bad memory leaking problems where all 12GB of my ram and all 12GB of P F would fill up and I would have to do a hard restart. You most likely won't encounter the Kaspersky problem, but using a small P F could still cause this problem. I say try different sizes while using AE, PPro and Photoshop to really fill up the ram and run some typical tasks.

With 20GB of ram, Dynamic Link will eat that up very quickly. Digitalcontentproducer.com tested PPro CS4 on Vista x64 and found that a R3D 4k clip being encoded (via Adobe Media Encoder) used up to 60GB, which includes 16GB ram and 44GB of page file.

I should also add that if Microsoft can't fine tune 7 x64 to use ram better, forcing it to use less P F won't do anything but cause problems. FYI, 7 x64 is supposed to be better at ram management than Vista.

John Hewat · November 17th, 2009, 08:10 PM

Quick question regarding page files...

As it is, my PC has the system drive connected through a Vantec Ez-Swap so that I can run multiple systems off of the one machine. I do this so that I have a functioning editing machine on one system, another drive to test new software and plug-ins and stuff, and another drive for Internet, media streaming and even flight simulator.

If I have a page file on D: configured through the editing system, will that page file be there for all other systems as well? Or, do I need to tell them to have one there too? But if I do that, won't I end up with three separate page files? I don't really know how it works?

Am I safer to just have the other systems use page files on the C drive?

Steve Kalle · November 17th, 2009, 10:59 PM

Yes, leave the other two systems' page file on their C drive. I only say this due to my experience when I reinstall the OS. I also use a separate drive for the page file and after reinstalling the OS, I change the page file to the D drive and Vista/7 see the old page file and asks if I want to overwrite it.

Hope this helps.

John Hewat · April 19th, 2013, 04:30 AM

I can't believe it's been almost three years since I last asked a question about RAM!

I'm still using this same machine and am considering filling the four remaining slots with the memory

here to go with my four sticks of KVR667D2D4F5/4G.

But I'm worried about purchasing a brand-less product. Is it a fairly safe thing to purchase from eBay or would I be smarter to spend more (more than double the price!) to get the same four sticks of KVR667D2D4F5/4G again.

Trevor Dennis · April 25th, 2013, 04:55 PM

I'd be inclined to go ask on the Adobe Premiere Pro Hardware forum. ISTR several threads talking about problems with some RAM.

Kevin Duffey · April 30th, 2013, 04:00 PM

John,

I am not entirely sure of your system.. custom built? I am also not sure if Xeon cpus require very specific memory or your m/b does. I've built 40+ computers the past 15+ years and have almost always used memory that is on sale, with the exception of a couple builds where I used super cheap China memory. Thus far, I've never had one stick of memory go bad on me. I would say, given how cheap memory is today, if your board can handle 4GB and 8GB sticks, maybe even look at grabbing 2 8GB matched sticks, see if those work, if so grab 2 more. You can never have too much memory!

I am still trying to figure out however if my 32GB system, with AE/PPro only showing 3GB max per core (I have AMD 8-core) and using only 4 cores, if I will make any use of 32GB. I just ordered another 16GB yesterday myself to give me 32GB total. I know the OS can use it, just not sure if PPro and AE use 20+ GB or not when the prefs indicates it gives a max of 3GB per core.

November 17th, 2009, 03:29 PM	#16
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	I have avoided messing with page file settings to much since you can screw things up more than I want to by experimenting, but what about having no page file? With 8GB Ram following the 1.5 rule you should have a 12GB pagefile. If you upgrade to 20GB, setting you pagefile to zero will give you the same amount of available "memory" to windows as you had before, but it will all be high speed. Is there any disadvantage to turning off the page file (besides limiting the "memory" available to your OS) related to stability, compatability, etc? It seems like that would be the ideal way to operate, especially if you are getting up there with 24 or 32GB of RAM. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

November 17th, 2009, 05:32 PM	#18
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	So the best bet might be a small (4GB? or even 2GB?) page file? __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

November 17th, 2009, 08:10 PM	#20
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	Quick question regarding page files... As it is, my PC has the system drive connected through a Vantec Ez-Swap so that I can run multiple systems off of the one machine. I do this so that I have a functioning editing machine on one system, another drive to test new software and plug-ins and stuff, and another drive for Internet, media streaming and even flight simulator. If I have a page file on D: configured through the editing system, will that page file be there for all other systems as well? Or, do I need to tell them to have one there too? But if I do that, won't I end up with three separate page files? I don't really know how it works? Am I safer to just have the other systems use page files on the C drive? __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

April 19th, 2013, 04:30 AM	#22
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	Re: Advice needed on a RAM upgrade I can't believe it's been almost three years since I last asked a question about RAM! I'm still using this same machine and am considering filling the four remaining slots with the memory here to go with my four sticks of KVR667D2D4F5/4G. But I'm worried about purchasing a brand-less product. Is it a fairly safe thing to purchase from eBay or would I be smarter to spend more (more than double the price!) to get the same four sticks of KVR667D2D4F5/4G again. __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

April 25th, 2013, 04:55 PM	#23
Trevor Dennis Major Player Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Zealand, Rapaura (near Blenheim) Posts: 434	Re: Advice needed on a RAM upgrade I'd be inclined to go ask on the Adobe Premiere Pro Hardware forum. ISTR several threads talking about problems with some RAM. __________________ Stills at: www.flickr.com/photos/trevor-dennis/

November 17th, 2009, 04:36 PM	#17
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Mike, While theoretically correct, there is one problem: Windows insists on having a pagefile and if one can not be found, it will automatically create a Windows managed one on your C drive. In previous versions, Windows was not clever enough to use the pagefile only when running out of faster memory, but with the amount of installed memory now growing rapidly, one would hope that the intelligence of when and how to use the pagefile would also increase. I admit this is only hope, not substantiated fact.

November 17th, 2009, 06:40 PM	#19
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	From my experience with Page file, its better to have more than less. If it all is used, the system will come to a screeching halt. I used Kaspersky anti-virus and its 2008 version had bad memory leaking problems where all 12GB of my ram and all 12GB of P F would fill up and I would have to do a hard restart. You most likely won't encounter the Kaspersky problem, but using a small P F could still cause this problem. I say try different sizes while using AE, PPro and Photoshop to really fill up the ram and run some typical tasks. With 20GB of ram, Dynamic Link will eat that up very quickly. Digitalcontentproducer.com tested PPro CS4 on Vista x64 and found that a R3D 4k clip being encoded (via Adobe Media Encoder) used up to 60GB, which includes 16GB ram and 44GB of page file. I should also add that if Microsoft can't fine tune 7 x64 to use ram better, forcing it to use less P F won't do anything but cause problems. FYI, 7 x64 is supposed to be better at ram management than Vista.

November 17th, 2009, 10:59 PM	#21
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Yes, leave the other two systems' page file on their C drive. I only say this due to my experience when I reinstall the OS. I also use a separate drive for the page file and after reinstalling the OS, I change the page file to the D drive and Vista/7 see the old page file and asks if I want to overwrite it. Hope this helps.

April 30th, 2013, 04:00 PM	#24
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Re: Advice needed on a RAM upgrade John, I am not entirely sure of your system.. custom built? I am also not sure if Xeon cpus require very specific memory or your m/b does. I've built 40+ computers the past 15+ years and have almost always used memory that is on sale, with the exception of a couple builds where I used super cheap China memory. Thus far, I've never had one stick of memory go bad on me. I would say, given how cheap memory is today, if your board can handle 4GB and 8GB sticks, maybe even look at grabbing 2 8GB matched sticks, see if those work, if so grab 2 more. You can never have too much memory! I am still trying to figure out however if my 32GB system, with AE/PPro only showing 3GB max per core (I have AMD 8-core) and using only 4 cores, if I will make any use of 32GB. I just ordered another 16GB yesterday myself to give me 32GB total. I know the OS can use it, just not sure if PPro and AE use 20+ GB or not when the prefs indicates it gives a max of 3GB per core.