Software for quick scene splitting of vollleyball games at DVinfo.net

Dave Taylor · September 30th, 2009, 12:13 PM

I tape my daughter's volleyball games. I usually just let the tape run unattended from the corner of the court only to pause it during timeouts. When I download it to the computer, it's just one large and long AVI file.

Now I'm trying to cut that AVI file down by dividing the scenes up into each rally between the whistles. In other words, I'd like to cut out all the waiting time in between the end of one rally and the beginning of another. That way I could review the video of the game a LOT faster and just get the plays.

I was hoping that either Adobe Premier or Pinnacle Studio would allow me to do this quickly and painlessly. Haven't found a way to do that yet.

I'd like to just watch the game one time through, hitting a key on the keyboard for the start of a scene and another for the end of the scene while the video continues. The software would continue to compile a large group of mini-clips would I could merge together later for a faster movie. I'd even be fine with using my mouse to click on a "begin" and "end" button. I just don't want to start the movie, pause, hit begin, pause, hit end, pause, save the clip, start the movie again, hit begin, pause, hit...etc.

Any thoughts of how to make it quicker?

What would be ABSOLUTELY fantastic would be if there was software that did automatic scene detection based on the referee's whistle (or any other sound for that matter!). Does it exist?

Harm Millaard · September 30th, 2009, 12:23 PM

Yes and no. You say AVI, that implies SD, but you also say download like over the internet.

For SD DV AVI that you capture, both PR and Scenalyzer can do scene detection, but not if you let the camera run all the time, because you only have one scene.

If you transfer files and not capture them, then no, it is not possible to further break them up automatically.

Dave Taylor · September 30th, 2009, 12:28 PM

ok, I'll be more specific. I have a Canon GL-2 camera. I tape the entire game to DV tape. Once I get home, I hook it up to the computer and download it as one big AVI file.

I've looked into Scenalyzer, but it would appear that I need to have my laptop hooked up to the camcorder while capturing the game live, correct? Too much gear for me to bring around unfortunately. :(

Just looking for a quick and easy way to edit/slice/cut my AVI file

Harm Millaard · September 30th, 2009, 01:46 PM

Simply put, if you press the start button on the camera that is the start of a scene. If the camera continues rolling to the end of the tape, you only have one scene. Only when you press the start and stop repeatedly will you create different date/timestamps that are necessary for scene detection to work.

Peter Moretti · October 1st, 2009, 06:49 AM

Right, most NLE's have a feature called DV Scene Detection, which will automatically create subclips during capture based upon breaks in timecode. So you capture the entire tape and the NLE will parse it out for you into separate media clips each time a timcode break occurs. (BTW, I believe it uses TOD timecode, so it's not a control track timecode break which can cause other problems--if that doesn't make any sense to you just ignore it.) Sony Vegas does this very well.

Also the NLE should have some type of Add Edit/Splice/Razor tool that you could even map to the keyboard, if it isn't already. That will allow you to create a new edit point with the press of a button while the footage is playing. It should also have some type of movement keys that will go to the next or previous Edit/Splice/Razor point.

HTH.

Dave Taylor · October 1st, 2009, 12:59 PM

So next time I record a game to my DV tape, how should I go about making it work correctly with Scene Detection? Is merely hitting the "stop recording" button in between rallies good enough? Something tells me that the timecode would not be any different really--only 20-40 seconds goes by in between rallies. Is that enough for a scene detect?

Adam Gold · October 1st, 2009, 01:08 PM

Yes, because as Peter quite correctly points out, it's not really a timecode break -- timecode is always continuous if your cam is working properly (unless you have a high-end pro cam capable of "free run TC") -- but rather date/time break, which is different. Even a couple of seconds will do.

BTW, in the HDV world, scene detection is not done via the date/time break, but rather via changes in the actual scene content, becasue the date/time data is stored differently than in DV. Premiere Elements does this, as does Vegas. At least from what I'm told.

Harm Millaard · October 1st, 2009, 02:48 PM

Usually there are two ways to accomplish scene detection.

One is based on date/timestamp. Everytime the date/timestamp (which is recorded only at the beginning of a scene) changes, that is a new scene, even though it may have the exact same image. Imagine taking a shot of a bowl of fruits, pressing stop on the camera and 5 minutes later, with the exact same image you press the start button again, starting the second scene. Those shots will be identified as distinct and separate shots.

The other is based on optical scene detection. If you take ten shots of the bowl of fruits, it will be seen as one scene. If you make one shot of a busy street, but a bus passes by, they will be seen as two distinct shots of the same street scene and when the bus is out of the picture there is your third scene, because optically the contents differed enough to make this three scenes.

All tape based cameras use the date/timestamp method to signify a new scene. At least PR at this moment can not handle scene detection for HDV material, but the freeware HDVSplit does it perfectly, based on date/timestamp, not on optical detection.

With the volleyball match the problem is that optical scene detection would not work at all. The differences in content from a single point would be too gradual and slow to mark a different scene. Only date/timestamp could work.

Vince Pachiano · October 1st, 2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

I'd like to just watch the game one time through, hitting a key on the keyboard for the start of a scene and another for the end of the scene while the video continues. The software would continue to compile a large group of mini-clips would I could merge together later for a faster movie. I'd even be fine with using my mouse to click on a "begin" and "end" button. I just don't want to start the movie, pause, hit begin, pause, hit end, pause, save the clip, start the movie again, hit begin, pause, hit...etc.

I can think of 2 easy methods... Method one below is for beginners, and allows you to see whats going on. As you get more confident, you can use method two.

I'm gonna assume you can judge when action is about to begin by seeing the server about to put the ball in play.

METHOD #1 - Using Timeline view
1. Start the movie, using spacebar
2. Just prior to the serve, press the insert key This will split the clip at the cursor.
3. Press "Y" to back-up one frame
4. Hit Delete to delete the "non-action"
5. Hit the spacebar to begin watching the action
(You can even hit "L" to watch at 2x. Hit Spacebar to pause, or "J" to go backwards)
6. When the action ceases, press the insert key (or click on the razor).
(You now have a scene of just game-play
7. Hit the spacebar (or "L" for 2x, 4x, etc) to begin searching for the next serve

Repeat steps 2-7 until done. You will now have multiple scenes of only game-play
You will want to save your project every so often to save tour work

METHOD #2 - Using Storyboard view
Start watching the game
1. Use the Insert key to split the scene at the just prior to the serve
2. Use the Spacebar to start watch game again (again, use "L" to speed-up playback)
3. Use the Insert key to split the scene at the just after the point (or side-out)
4. Use the Insert key to split the scene at the just prior to the serve

Repeat steps 1-4 for the entire game
Now, using your Control key, you will want to select every other scene in the story-board view (Scene 1,3,5,7,9,11... will be the non-action)
It will be helpful if the playback window is as small as possible so you get as many storyboards on the screen as possible
Make sure you hold down the control key as you select each scene. Use the scroll-bars, not the up/down arrow to view next set of storyboard
Once you select all the scenes, press the DELETE key to delete the selected scenes

NOTE: It will be easier if you start with the LAST scene and work backwards, because you can make intermediate deletes without upsetting your odd/even pairing of non/action - action

NOTE: You will find it easier to select every other scene if you work in a Vertical fashion, rather than left-to-right.
Example, assuming your storyboard view has is 12 x 3 scenes (12 wide, 3 tall), rather than select 1,3,5,7,9...
Select 1,13,25; 3,15,27; 5,17,29...

Dave Taylor · October 5th, 2009, 10:58 PM

This sounds sorta like something I'd like to do. But my version of Adobe Premiere Elements does not have the "Insert" key mapped to Split Clip. That is CTRL-K for me. Perhaps you have a custom keyboard mapping?

Graham Hickling · October 7th, 2009, 11:37 PM

Load your long raw file into Virtualdub (freeware). (If you have several files, you can 'append' the successive ones...)

With your right hand drag the timeline marker to the start of the first section you want deleted. Click the 'In" marker. Drag to the start of the next section you'll want to keep. Click the "Out' marker. With your left hand hit 'Delete' to remove that section you have marked.

Carry on this way through the entire file, then at the end select "direct stream copy" to resave losslessly as a new (edited) file.

Very fast, especially as you can vary the speed you scrub via the mouse.

October 1st, 2009, 06:49 AM	#5
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Right, most NLE's have a feature called DV Scene Detection, which will automatically create subclips during capture based upon breaks in timecode. So you capture the entire tape and the NLE will parse it out for you into separate media clips each time a timcode break occurs. (BTW, I believe it uses TOD timecode, so it's not a control track timecode break which can cause other problems--if that doesn't make any sense to you just ignore it.) Sony Vegas does this very well. Also the NLE should have some type of Add Edit/Splice/Razor tool that you could even map to the keyboard, if it isn't already. That will allow you to create a new edit point with the press of a button while the footage is playing. It should also have some type of movement keys that will go to the next or previous Edit/Splice/Razor point. HTH. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

September 30th, 2009, 12:13 PM	#1
Dave Taylor New Boot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Austin, tx Posts: 6	Software for quick scene splitting of vollleyball games I tape my daughter's volleyball games. I usually just let the tape run unattended from the corner of the court only to pause it during timeouts. When I download it to the computer, it's just one large and long AVI file. Now I'm trying to cut that AVI file down by dividing the scenes up into each rally between the whistles. In other words, I'd like to cut out all the waiting time in between the end of one rally and the beginning of another. That way I could review the video of the game a LOT faster and just get the plays. I was hoping that either Adobe Premier or Pinnacle Studio would allow me to do this quickly and painlessly. Haven't found a way to do that yet. I'd like to just watch the game one time through, hitting a key on the keyboard for the start of a scene and another for the end of the scene while the video continues. The software would continue to compile a large group of mini-clips would I could merge together later for a faster movie. I'd even be fine with using my mouse to click on a "begin" and "end" button. I just don't want to start the movie, pause, hit begin, pause, hit end, pause, save the clip, start the movie again, hit begin, pause, hit...etc. Any thoughts of how to make it quicker? What would be ABSOLUTELY fantastic would be if there was software that did automatic scene detection based on the referee's whistle (or any other sound for that matter!). Does it exist?

September 30th, 2009, 12:23 PM	#2
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Yes and no. You say AVI, that implies SD, but you also say download like over the internet. For SD DV AVI that you capture, both PR and Scenalyzer can do scene detection, but not if you let the camera run all the time, because you only have one scene. If you transfer files and not capture them, then no, it is not possible to further break them up automatically.

September 30th, 2009, 12:28 PM	#3
Dave Taylor New Boot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Austin, tx Posts: 6	ok, I'll be more specific. I have a Canon GL-2 camera. I tape the entire game to DV tape. Once I get home, I hook it up to the computer and download it as one big AVI file. I've looked into Scenalyzer, but it would appear that I need to have my laptop hooked up to the camcorder while capturing the game live, correct? Too much gear for me to bring around unfortunately. :( Just looking for a quick and easy way to edit/slice/cut my AVI file

September 30th, 2009, 01:46 PM	#4
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Simply put, if you press the start button on the camera that is the start of a scene. If the camera continues rolling to the end of the tape, you only have one scene. Only when you press the start and stop repeatedly will you create different date/timestamps that are necessary for scene detection to work.

October 1st, 2009, 12:59 PM	#6
Dave Taylor New Boot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Austin, tx Posts: 6	So next time I record a game to my DV tape, how should I go about making it work correctly with Scene Detection? Is merely hitting the "stop recording" button in between rallies good enough? Something tells me that the timecode would not be any different really--only 20-40 seconds goes by in between rallies. Is that enough for a scene detect?

October 1st, 2009, 01:08 PM	#7
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Yes, because as Peter quite correctly points out, it's not really a timecode break -- timecode is always continuous if your cam is working properly (unless you have a high-end pro cam capable of "free run TC") -- but rather date/time break, which is different. Even a couple of seconds will do. BTW, in the HDV world, scene detection is not done via the date/time break, but rather via changes in the actual scene content, becasue the date/time data is stored differently than in DV. Premiere Elements does this, as does Vegas. At least from what I'm told.

October 1st, 2009, 02:48 PM	#8
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Usually there are two ways to accomplish scene detection. One is based on date/timestamp. Everytime the date/timestamp (which is recorded only at the beginning of a scene) changes, that is a new scene, even though it may have the exact same image. Imagine taking a shot of a bowl of fruits, pressing stop on the camera and 5 minutes later, with the exact same image you press the start button again, starting the second scene. Those shots will be identified as distinct and separate shots. The other is based on optical scene detection. If you take ten shots of the bowl of fruits, it will be seen as one scene. If you make one shot of a busy street, but a bus passes by, they will be seen as two distinct shots of the same street scene and when the bus is out of the picture there is your third scene, because optically the contents differed enough to make this three scenes. All tape based cameras use the date/timestamp method to signify a new scene. At least PR at this moment can not handle scene detection for HDV material, but the freeware HDVSplit does it perfectly, based on date/timestamp, not on optical detection. With the volleyball match the problem is that optical scene detection would not work at all. The differences in content from a single point would be too gradual and slow to mark a different scene. Only date/timestamp could work.

October 5th, 2009, 10:58 PM	#10
Dave Taylor New Boot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Austin, tx Posts: 6	This sounds sorta like something I'd like to do. But my version of Adobe Premiere Elements does not have the "Insert" key mapped to Split Clip. That is CTRL-K for me. Perhaps you have a custom keyboard mapping?

October 7th, 2009, 11:37 PM	#11
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Load your long raw file into Virtualdub (freeware). (If you have several files, you can 'append' the successive ones...) With your right hand drag the timeline marker to the start of the first section you want deleted. Click the 'In" marker. Drag to the start of the next section you'll want to keep. Click the "Out' marker. With your left hand hit 'Delete' to remove that section you have marked. Carry on this way through the entire file, then at the end select "direct stream copy" to resave losslessly as a new (edited) file. Very fast, especially as you can vary the speed you scrub via the mouse.