Music Video Editing at DVinfo.net

Doug Quance · October 17th, 2002, 07:24 AM

I am planning to shoot and edit a music video, and could use some tips on editing.

I can use either Vegas Video 3 or Premiere to do the edit (although I am leaning towards Premiere for this project)

We plan to tape four different scenes for the full length of the song, as well as miscellaneous clips. My thoughts are to put each of the four clips on different tracks, and switch between the different scenes.

The misc. clips will be on other tracks, and inserted where appropriate.

Anyone have some good tips on the easiest way to switch between these four scenes?

Do I need to identify the edit point, slice all four scenes with a razor cut, then set the opacity on each of the four tracks to show the desired clip?

Or is there a way to keyframe edit that would be easier?

I know there must be an easier way, I just can't think of it!

Other tips regarding a project like this are also welcome!

Edward Troxel · October 17th, 2002, 09:39 AM

In Vegas, I would add a Master track (initially blank) at the top and then, do as you said, and split wherever I wanted to changed scenes. Then, just move the desired scene to the Master track.

Rob Lohman · October 17th, 2002, 09:40 AM

You might be interested in these two threads:

http://new.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4053
http://new.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3390

Good luck.

Josh Bass · October 17th, 2002, 12:51 PM

One tip I have (and please, anyone contradict me if it's not recommended) is to record the sound while you shoot, even though you don't plan to use it. Use a directional boom or the camera's mic, and record your boombox or what have you that the music is playing from for you singers to sing to. I did this, and it helped me sync it up much faster because I could hear what was being sung, instead of just looking at lips. You might already know this, and want to hurt me for suggesting you don't. In that case, you may not have my address.

Henrik Bengtsson · October 17th, 2002, 02:47 PM

Time to contradict :) A much better way to do it is to get the audio directly from the PA/stereo system you are using as a audio reference for the talent to sing/play to. This way you will get much clearer audio to sync to than by using a mic. ESPECIALLY when filming drummers :)

I learned that lesson the hard way =)

/Henrik

Doug Quance · October 17th, 2002, 06:08 PM

Good tip on the sound sync... I was thinking about a simple reference from a boombox, etc through the mike on the camera. The talent will actually sing (versus lip sync) so I will have that reference as well... the boombox is so the talent will have a reference. (The audio will be produced before the video)

Since all four scenes will be continuous, once I've set sync at the beginning of each clip, it should hold pretty good for 3 or 4 minutes. If not, I can always tweak a clip in the timeline.

Another analogy to this shoot might be that of a project where there is four cameras shooting the same scene from different angles. Is there an easier way than the razor cuts and moving the selected clip to the master track? I am just thinking that razor cuts may be extreme if I want to go back and tweak them later.

Since each of these clips will have different timecodes, any suggestions on dealing with that, as well? Is that an issue? Or do I just deal with the time on the timeline once the clips are inserted in sync on the timeline?

Again, thanks for the input!!!

Henrik Bengtsson · October 18th, 2002, 01:29 AM

Well, im not sure how your editing app handles it, but usually a razor cut doesnt actually cut the source material (such as when you do it in real life with film). It just changes the in and out points of the current reference. Thus if you need to tweak it you will still have all the source materials availible, just to drag and move the end and beginning (and not the actual clip as you will loose sync).

This is a technique i used extensively in the Beseech video. I had 4-5 different shots from different angels all synced to the audio on different tracks. Then used razor to cut them up into rough edits and after that added transitions and effects. A lot of tweaking was done to make the edits look good and that was done with moving the in/out points manually.

/Henrik

Doug Quance · October 18th, 2002, 08:00 AM

Thanks, Henrik...

I feel stupid on that one... of course the material is still there...

I just dawned on me that once I've dropped them into the master timeline, I can use a rolling edit to tweak the clip.

Bill Ravens · October 18th, 2002, 10:18 AM

Vegas Video 3 allows very easy compositing. Just load each clip into a different track on the timeline, then adjust the "transparency" envelope depending on your position in the timeline. there is no cutting, pasting, or editing involved other than switching which track is visible at which part of the timeline. Cuts, fades, or dissolves are a function of how you drag and define the transparency envelope. Music is synced to the video or visa versa acording to a technique described by Douglas Spotted Eagle in a tutorial he posted online.

Doug Quance · October 19th, 2002, 09:04 AM

Voila!!

Thank you Bill!

Douglas Spotted Eagle does have just the tutorial I was hoping for!

I knew there was a better, more unconventional way!

Thanks again!

October 17th, 2002, 07:24 AM	#1
Doug Quance Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 138	Music Video Editing I am planning to shoot and edit a music video, and could use some tips on editing. I can use either Vegas Video 3 or Premiere to do the edit (although I am leaning towards Premiere for this project) We plan to tape four different scenes for the full length of the song, as well as miscellaneous clips. My thoughts are to put each of the four clips on different tracks, and switch between the different scenes. The misc. clips will be on other tracks, and inserted where appropriate. Anyone have some good tips on the easiest way to switch between these four scenes? Do I need to identify the edit point, slice all four scenes with a razor cut, then set the opacity on each of the four tracks to show the desired clip? Or is there a way to keyframe edit that would be easier? I know there must be an easier way, I just can't think of it! Other tips regarding a project like this are also welcome! __________________ If you're not the lead dog... the scenery never changes

October 17th, 2002, 09:40 AM	#3
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	You might be interested in these two threads: http://new.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4053 http://new.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3390 Good luck. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 17th, 2002, 12:51 PM	#4
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	One tip I have (and please, anyone contradict me if it's not recommended) is to record the sound while you shoot, even though you don't plan to use it. Use a directional boom or the camera's mic, and record your boombox or what have you that the music is playing from for you singers to sing to. I did this, and it helped me sync it up much faster because I could hear what was being sung, instead of just looking at lips. You might already know this, and want to hurt me for suggesting you don't. In that case, you may not have my address. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 17th, 2002, 06:08 PM	#6
Doug Quance Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 138	Good tip on the sound sync... I was thinking about a simple reference from a boombox, etc through the mike on the camera. The talent will actually sing (versus lip sync) so I will have that reference as well... the boombox is so the talent will have a reference. (The audio will be produced before the video) Since all four scenes will be continuous, once I've set sync at the beginning of each clip, it should hold pretty good for 3 or 4 minutes. If not, I can always tweak a clip in the timeline. Another analogy to this shoot might be that of a project where there is four cameras shooting the same scene from different angles. Is there an easier way than the razor cuts and moving the selected clip to the master track? I am just thinking that razor cuts may be extreme if I want to go back and tweak them later. Since each of these clips will have different timecodes, any suggestions on dealing with that, as well? Is that an issue? Or do I just deal with the time on the timeline once the clips are inserted in sync on the timeline? Again, thanks for the input!!! __________________ If you're not the lead dog... the scenery never changes

October 18th, 2002, 08:00 AM	#8
Doug Quance Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 138	Thanks, Henrik... I feel stupid on that one... of course the material is still there... I just dawned on me that once I've dropped them into the master timeline, I can use a rolling edit to tweak the clip. __________________ If you're not the lead dog... the scenery never changes

October 17th, 2002, 09:39 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	In Vegas, I would add a Master track (initially blank) at the top and then, do as you said, and split wherever I wanted to changed scenes. Then, just move the desired scene to the Master track.

October 17th, 2002, 02:47 PM	#5
Henrik Bengtsson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 167	Time to contradict :) A much better way to do it is to get the audio directly from the PA/stereo system you are using as a audio reference for the talent to sing/play to. This way you will get much clearer audio to sync to than by using a mic. ESPECIALLY when filming drummers :) I learned that lesson the hard way =) /Henrik

October 18th, 2002, 01:29 AM	#7
Henrik Bengtsson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 167	Well, im not sure how your editing app handles it, but usually a razor cut doesnt actually cut the source material (such as when you do it in real life with film). It just changes the in and out points of the current reference. Thus if you need to tweak it you will still have all the source materials availible, just to drag and move the end and beginning (and not the actual clip as you will loose sync). This is a technique i used extensively in the Beseech video. I had 4-5 different shots from different angels all synced to the audio on different tracks. Then used razor to cut them up into rough edits and after that added transitions and effects. A lot of tweaking was done to make the edits look good and that was done with moving the in/out points manually. /Henrik

October 18th, 2002, 10:18 AM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Vegas Video 3 allows very easy compositing. Just load each clip into a different track on the timeline, then adjust the "transparency" envelope depending on your position in the timeline. there is no cutting, pasting, or editing involved other than switching which track is visible at which part of the timeline. Cuts, fades, or dissolves are a function of how you drag and define the transparency envelope. Music is synced to the video or visa versa acording to a technique described by Douglas Spotted Eagle in a tutorial he posted online.

October 19th, 2002, 09:04 AM	#10
Doug Quance Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 138	Voila!! Thank you Bill! Douglas Spotted Eagle does have just the tutorial I was hoping for! I knew there was a better, more unconventional way! Thanks again! __________________ If you're not the lead dog... the scenery never changes