PC for editing

Devlyn Hukowich · January 26th, 2005, 11:34 AM

If I might add a couple of words of caution regarding PC based editing systems.
I use to service high end PC based video editing systems. Most of the problems we had with the Windows based equipment was related to users installing software other than the video editing software on the system. Although current systems are a great deal more powerful there are still a few truths regarding the performance of any computer. First Windows is not a real time OS. Any application can preempt any other application at any time (usually the most inopportune time) also the fewer applications installed the fewer drivers, and fewer conflicts.
I have two computers on my desk (with a KVM) one for general PC stuff, internet, word processing, etc... and the other for video editing and graphics. I have very few problems with either. The video system is a 3GHz Intel P4 with 1GB RAM, 60GB Boot drive, 120GB Export Drive, 2x120 SATA RAID 0 material drives, DVD burner, Audigy 2 board, & Matrox G450 dual head graphics card (more than good for video), MB has USB 2.0 & IEEE 1394 on board. I have captured +2 hours from Firewire without a single dropped frame, and can still use my other system for other processor intensive stuff. Computers are inexpensive get two. Don't try and build one that does everything.
Rant over.

Carlos E. Martinez · January 26th, 2005, 11:59 AM

Well, at last people have started writing. There were a lot of visitors on this thread but none giving an opinion. Talk up, folks! This is the place where we can go wrong and be ignorants! And also learn from other areas where we are not that expert.

Devlin,

Your comments are great. You are right in pointing out some things you have to be careful about when assembling a PC for editing. Many problems come by from, as a friend of mine says, people not doing their homework.

To start with I do think you should separate your editing software from everything else. Instead of assembling a separate computer for editing, there's an effective second choice: use one HD exclusively for the editing programs and boot from it. Right now I do that but for different reasons, so as not have conflicts for having double-boot between 98se and 2000pro, which I got tired of having.

On that "editing HD" you probably may have a text program, like Word, and nothing else.

What motherboard is the one you have for editing? What are you editing with it?

I say that because the Audigy is not such a good sound board, IMHO.

Why did you choose 120GB (what brand?) instead of larger ones?

In my meager experience, firewire capturing is not so critical if your interface and CPU is good. Many times a week I capture DirecTV programs and films directly from my satellite tuner, nonstop for more than 2 hours each, never losing a frame.

But I use WinDV for capturing, instead of Avid DVxpress as I did at first. Then I convert the avi files through the editing program.

Next month I will be facing more demanding editing and I need a better workstation, which motivated this thread.

Carlos

Devlyn Hukowich · January 26th, 2005, 12:36 PM

Ah ha,
Some additional information for Carlos.
I actually don't have any Word Processing software on my editing system. If I need to type something small then Notepad or Wordpad will do.
The motherboard is a ASUS P4PE, I know it's getting a little long in the tooth but still very good.
I would like to be editing more small stuff for corporate and a buddy's video business in Northern Ontario but right now transfering some VHS to DVD for personal stuff.
I originally had problems with the first generation Audigy board, but in the editing system I have a Audigy 2 and have had no problems. Plus for some stuff being able to record at 24bit/96kHz is nice.
This system is about 2 years old and 120GB drives were the most cost effective at the time. If I need new drives then 200's or 250's will go in it.
I am still trying to nail down some reasonable software packages that will work well together, this seems to be the biggest challenge. Some of the shareware and freeware is better than the big boys put out.
As far as hardware goes, don't get too fancy and be prepared to replace your system every 3 years on average. But remember the eternal video triangle; Good, Fast, Cheap..... Pick two.

Tom DelRosario · January 26th, 2005, 08:19 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez :
6) Anything else I am forgetting?

Carlos -->>>

A DVD burner. Get a 16x burner that is dual layer capable. Most can do both +R and -R.

Brendan Marnell · February 1st, 2005, 07:17 AM

Devlyn, what would you think of as a suitable editing system to take advantage of your high-powered pc?

How do you rate Canopus DVStorm 2 pro ultra?

Any other views on Canopus, please?

Brendan

Kevin Shaw · February 1st, 2005, 09:10 AM

As a long-time Canopus customer I'm mostly satisfied with their products, but there are some issues and limitations with what they sell. First of all, if you plan to use Adobe Premiere then you're arguably better off either running it without any special hardware support or getting the Matrox real-time board rather than Canopus. When you use the Canopus hardware with their Edius software you get great real-time results, but the software currently lacks a few advanced features of more mature programs. I use Canopus DVStorm2 with Edius and like it, especially the fact that I can transfer projects back and forth to my laptop and still do some real-time editing that way. But the advantages of DVStorm have dwindled as computers have gotten faster, so I'm not sure I'd buy it if I was making that decision today.

My next editing system will probably have dual Intel Xeon processors on a workstation motherboard with 64-bit PCI-X slots, with the intention of being able to do real-time HDV editing. PCI-X is required for the new Canopus Edius NX hardware, which is one of the best shipping solutions for working with HDV. And all HDV editing software reportedly works best on dual-processor systems, so if you have any thoughts of needing to edit HDV then you should get dual processors.

Motherboards: Abit and Asus are the two brands I see recommended most, but for dual processors Tyan and Supermicro seem to be more popular.

Memory: minimum of 1 GB for video editing, preferably as two matching DIMMs to get best performance with modern memory architecture. I usually buy Kingston-based memory, which seems to be a good compromise between the most and least expensive options. Definitely don't skimp on memory by buying the cheapest generic stuff.

Hard drives: I'm still using ATA/IDE drives, but SATA is becoming more standard. Get the biggest drives you can afford and buy at least two of them, so you can put them together in a simple RAID if you need more performance. This should be in addition to your system drive, which can be smaller. I like Western Digital drives with 8MB cache, and have also used Hitachi and Maxtor successfully. My ideal setup would be a Western Digital "Raptor" boot drive with two matching SATA drives of at least 250GB each. Some people prefer SCSI drives for reliability, but you sure pay a lot for that slight extra piece of mind.

Video card: any nVidia or ATI based card with at least 64MB of memory, and preferably 128MB. You don't need to spend huge amounts of money on this item for purposes of video editing, but you do want a good quality product. Getting something with at least one DVI output is probably a good idea, but then I've never used that feature myself.

Speakers: spend at least a few bucks on a decent set of speakers with a subwoofer. Half of video is audio, so you need to be able to hear as well as see what you're working on.

Remember that no matter what you buy there will be something better soon at similar prices, so don't spend too much on any one item. The one exception I might make right now is to spend a little extra on the processors, as dual 3.2+ GHz seems to be recommended for doing HDV work. I think Intel is scheduled to cut their prices near the end of this month, so the 3.2 GHz chips should be more reasonably priced then. Right now, 2.8 GHz is the "sweet spot" in terms of price versus performance.

Carlos E. Martinez · February 1st, 2005, 12:05 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw : First of all, if you plan to use Adobe Premiere then you're arguably better off either running it without any special hardware support or getting the Matrox real-time board rather than Canopus. When you use the Canopus hardware with their Edius software you get great real-time results, but the software currently lacks a few advanced features of more mature programs. I use Canopus DVStorm2 with Edius and like it, especially the fact that I can transfer projects back and forth to my laptop and still do some real-time editing that way. But the advantages of DVStorm have dwindled as computers have gotten faster, so I'm not sure I'd buy it if I was making that decision today.
-->>>

I don't quite get it. DVStorm2 is a hardware or a software? Is the Matrox an alternative to the DVStorm2?

<<<--
My next editing system will probably have dual Intel Xeon processors on a workstation motherboard with 64-bit PCI-X slots, with the intention of being able to do real-time HDV editing. PCI-X is required for the new Canopus Edius NX hardware, which is one of the best shipping solutions for working with HDV. And all HDV editing software reportedly works best on dual-processor systems, so if you have any thoughts of needing to edit HDV then you should get dual processors.

Motherboards: Abit and Asus are the two brands I see recommended most, but for dual processors Tyan and Supermicro seem to be more popular.
-->>>

So if I want to edit with the Edius I will need PCIExpress slots? All HDV editing NLEs need PCIExpress? Will Vegas too?

I am bit wary of Abit and Asus MOBOs, perhaps because of some problems I had with KT600 based boards, but maybe they do better with Intel.

What Tyan board should I look into for HDV editing?

Carlos

Kevin Shaw · February 1st, 2005, 08:59 PM

Carlos: the DVStorm is a combination hardware/software product, with the hardware helping accelerate editing and also offering real-time MPEG2 output. It will work with both the Edius software and Adobe Premiere Pro, but the Premiere Pro support has some limitations. The Matrox RTX.100 is a similar hardware/software combo with better support for Premiere Pro.

By the way, the Canopus HDV products require a 64-bit PCI-X slot, which is different from PCI Express. (They sound similar, but they're not.) Thankfully, many recent workstation motherboards have both. For a list of motherboards specifically approved for Ediux NX, see this web page:

http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUSNX_for_HDV/pa_EDIUSNX_Compat.asp

Carlos E. Martinez · February 2nd, 2005, 04:33 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw : For a list of motherboards specifically approved for Ediux NX, see this web page:

http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUSNX_for_HDV/pa_EDIUSNX_Compat.asp -->>>

And expensive they are! All server mobos in the vicinity of $600!

Just with memory and CPUs you will start counting at around $1,200, not to mention the Edius system, which I don't know the price of.

Carlos

January 26th, 2005, 11:34 AM	#16
Devlyn Hukowich Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 40	If I might add a couple of words of caution regarding PC based editing systems. I use to service high end PC based video editing systems. Most of the problems we had with the Windows based equipment was related to users installing software other than the video editing software on the system. Although current systems are a great deal more powerful there are still a few truths regarding the performance of any computer. First Windows is not a real time OS. Any application can preempt any other application at any time (usually the most inopportune time) also the fewer applications installed the fewer drivers, and fewer conflicts. I have two computers on my desk (with a KVM) one for general PC stuff, internet, word processing, etc... and the other for video editing and graphics. I have very few problems with either. The video system is a 3GHz Intel P4 with 1GB RAM, 60GB Boot drive, 120GB Export Drive, 2x120 SATA RAID 0 material drives, DVD burner, Audigy 2 board, & Matrox G450 dual head graphics card (more than good for video), MB has USB 2.0 & IEEE 1394 on board. I have captured +2 hours from Firewire without a single dropped frame, and can still use my other system for other processor intensive stuff. Computers are inexpensive get two. Don't try and build one that does everything. Rant over. __________________ Devlyn Hukowich TwoBit Digital Inc. Video and Computer Geek P4 3.06GHz, 2GB RAM, Matrox RT.x100, dual head display

January 26th, 2005, 12:36 PM	#18
Devlyn Hukowich Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 40	Ah ha, Some additional information for Carlos. I actually don't have any Word Processing software on my editing system. If I need to type something small then Notepad or Wordpad will do. The motherboard is a ASUS P4PE, I know it's getting a little long in the tooth but still very good. I would like to be editing more small stuff for corporate and a buddy's video business in Northern Ontario but right now transfering some VHS to DVD for personal stuff. I originally had problems with the first generation Audigy board, but in the editing system I have a Audigy 2 and have had no problems. Plus for some stuff being able to record at 24bit/96kHz is nice. This system is about 2 years old and 120GB drives were the most cost effective at the time. If I need new drives then 200's or 250's will go in it. I am still trying to nail down some reasonable software packages that will work well together, this seems to be the biggest challenge. Some of the shareware and freeware is better than the big boys put out. As far as hardware goes, don't get too fancy and be prepared to replace your system every 3 years on average. But remember the eternal video triangle; Good, Fast, Cheap..... Pick two. __________________ Devlyn Hukowich TwoBit Digital Inc. Video and Computer Geek P4 3.06GHz, 2GB RAM, Matrox RT.x100, dual head display

January 26th, 2005, 08:19 PM	#19
Tom DelRosario Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 27	Re: PC for editing <<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez : 6) Anything else I am forgetting? Carlos -->>> A DVD burner. Get a 16x burner that is dual layer capable. Most can do both +R and -R.

February 1st, 2005, 07:17 AM	#20
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	Video editing on pc Devlyn, what would you think of as a suitable editing system to take advantage of your high-powered pc? How do you rate Canopus DVStorm 2 pro ultra? Any other views on Canopus, please? Brendan

January 26th, 2005, 11:59 AM	#17
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	Well, at last people have started writing. There were a lot of visitors on this thread but none giving an opinion. Talk up, folks! This is the place where we can go wrong and be ignorants! And also learn from other areas where we are not that expert. Devlin, Your comments are great. You are right in pointing out some things you have to be careful about when assembling a PC for editing. Many problems come by from, as a friend of mine says, people not doing their homework. To start with I do think you should separate your editing software from everything else. Instead of assembling a separate computer for editing, there's an effective second choice: use one HD exclusively for the editing programs and boot from it. Right now I do that but for different reasons, so as not have conflicts for having double-boot between 98se and 2000pro, which I got tired of having. On that "editing HD" you probably may have a text program, like Word, and nothing else. What motherboard is the one you have for editing? What are you editing with it? I say that because the Audigy is not such a good sound board, IMHO. Why did you choose 120GB (what brand?) instead of larger ones? In my meager experience, firewire capturing is not so critical if your interface and CPU is good. Many times a week I capture DirecTV programs and films directly from my satellite tuner, nonstop for more than 2 hours each, never losing a frame. But I use WinDV for capturing, instead of Avid DVxpress as I did at first. Then I convert the avi files through the editing program. Next month I will be facing more demanding editing and I need a better workstation, which motivated this thread. Carlos

February 1st, 2005, 09:10 AM	#21
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	As a long-time Canopus customer I'm mostly satisfied with their products, but there are some issues and limitations with what they sell. First of all, if you plan to use Adobe Premiere then you're arguably better off either running it without any special hardware support or getting the Matrox real-time board rather than Canopus. When you use the Canopus hardware with their Edius software you get great real-time results, but the software currently lacks a few advanced features of more mature programs. I use Canopus DVStorm2 with Edius and like it, especially the fact that I can transfer projects back and forth to my laptop and still do some real-time editing that way. But the advantages of DVStorm have dwindled as computers have gotten faster, so I'm not sure I'd buy it if I was making that decision today. My next editing system will probably have dual Intel Xeon processors on a workstation motherboard with 64-bit PCI-X slots, with the intention of being able to do real-time HDV editing. PCI-X is required for the new Canopus Edius NX hardware, which is one of the best shipping solutions for working with HDV. And all HDV editing software reportedly works best on dual-processor systems, so if you have any thoughts of needing to edit HDV then you should get dual processors. Motherboards: Abit and Asus are the two brands I see recommended most, but for dual processors Tyan and Supermicro seem to be more popular. Memory: minimum of 1 GB for video editing, preferably as two matching DIMMs to get best performance with modern memory architecture. I usually buy Kingston-based memory, which seems to be a good compromise between the most and least expensive options. Definitely don't skimp on memory by buying the cheapest generic stuff. Hard drives: I'm still using ATA/IDE drives, but SATA is becoming more standard. Get the biggest drives you can afford and buy at least two of them, so you can put them together in a simple RAID if you need more performance. This should be in addition to your system drive, which can be smaller. I like Western Digital drives with 8MB cache, and have also used Hitachi and Maxtor successfully. My ideal setup would be a Western Digital "Raptor" boot drive with two matching SATA drives of at least 250GB each. Some people prefer SCSI drives for reliability, but you sure pay a lot for that slight extra piece of mind. Video card: any nVidia or ATI based card with at least 64MB of memory, and preferably 128MB. You don't need to spend huge amounts of money on this item for purposes of video editing, but you do want a good quality product. Getting something with at least one DVI output is probably a good idea, but then I've never used that feature myself. Speakers: spend at least a few bucks on a decent set of speakers with a subwoofer. Half of video is audio, so you need to be able to hear as well as see what you're working on. Remember that no matter what you buy there will be something better soon at similar prices, so don't spend too much on any one item. The one exception I might make right now is to spend a little extra on the processors, as dual 3.2+ GHz seems to be recommended for doing HDV work. I think Intel is scheduled to cut their prices near the end of this month, so the 3.2 GHz chips should be more reasonably priced then. Right now, 2.8 GHz is the "sweet spot" in terms of price versus performance.

February 1st, 2005, 12:05 PM	#22
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw : First of all, if you plan to use Adobe Premiere then you're arguably better off either running it without any special hardware support or getting the Matrox real-time board rather than Canopus. When you use the Canopus hardware with their Edius software you get great real-time results, but the software currently lacks a few advanced features of more mature programs. I use Canopus DVStorm2 with Edius and like it, especially the fact that I can transfer projects back and forth to my laptop and still do some real-time editing that way. But the advantages of DVStorm have dwindled as computers have gotten faster, so I'm not sure I'd buy it if I was making that decision today. -->>> I don't quite get it. DVStorm2 is a hardware or a software? Is the Matrox an alternative to the DVStorm2? <<<-- My next editing system will probably have dual Intel Xeon processors on a workstation motherboard with 64-bit PCI-X slots, with the intention of being able to do real-time HDV editing. PCI-X is required for the new Canopus Edius NX hardware, which is one of the best shipping solutions for working with HDV. And all HDV editing software reportedly works best on dual-processor systems, so if you have any thoughts of needing to edit HDV then you should get dual processors. Motherboards: Abit and Asus are the two brands I see recommended most, but for dual processors Tyan and Supermicro seem to be more popular. -->>> So if I want to edit with the Edius I will need PCIExpress slots? All HDV editing NLEs need PCIExpress? Will Vegas too? I am bit wary of Abit and Asus MOBOs, perhaps because of some problems I had with KT600 based boards, but maybe they do better with Intel. What Tyan board should I look into for HDV editing? Carlos

February 1st, 2005, 08:59 PM	#23
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Carlos: the DVStorm is a combination hardware/software product, with the hardware helping accelerate editing and also offering real-time MPEG2 output. It will work with both the Edius software and Adobe Premiere Pro, but the Premiere Pro support has some limitations. The Matrox RTX.100 is a similar hardware/software combo with better support for Premiere Pro. By the way, the Canopus HDV products require a 64-bit PCI-X slot, which is different from PCI Express. (They sound similar, but they're not.) Thankfully, many recent workstation motherboards have both. For a list of motherboards specifically approved for Ediux NX, see this web page: http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUSNX_for_HDV/pa_EDIUSNX_Compat.asp

February 2nd, 2005, 04:33 AM	#24
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw : For a list of motherboards specifically approved for Ediux NX, see this web page: http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUSNX_for_HDV/pa_EDIUSNX_Compat.asp -->>> And expensive they are! All server mobos in the vicinity of $600! Just with memory and CPUs you will start counting at around $1,200, not to mention the Edius system, which I don't know the price of. Carlos