which is the best software for chroma keying? at DVinfo.net

Adi Head · September 11th, 2004, 11:53 AM

which is the best software for chroma keying?

John Hartney · September 11th, 2004, 02:14 PM

I use vegas, premiere pro and afteraffects. Of those, all of which are capable, afteraffects works best for me....

Adi Head · September 11th, 2004, 03:42 PM

i remember reading something about a program made especially for chroma keying and is considered THE application for doing so. can't remember the name though.

Adi Head · September 11th, 2004, 03:52 PM

ok. did some more searching around and found it. just in case anyone is interested, the thread is titled:

Chroma keying in vegas/miniDV - best way

and it's located in the vegas forum. last post: april 28, 2004

thanks anyway.

Richard Tamayo · September 11th, 2004, 05:47 PM

You may want to checkout fxhome.com. They have a program called Chromanator for around $100. I don't know how good it is , I have never tried it. For that price I am not so sure of quality,
everyones taste is different. Good luck.

Nick Jushchyshyn · September 11th, 2004, 06:04 PM

What software do you have?
What is your budget?

BTW: Vegas Chroma keying OK, but still pretty weak if compared to dedicated compositing software. (Have they added a color spill surpression feature yet? Haven't tried it for some time.)
I'm sure you can get by with it, but there are many programs that are dedicated to compositing that provide much greater control and power and lead to more realistic results.

Cheapest I know of is Chromanator from CSBDigital:
http://fxhome.com/chromanator/
It's targeted at amateurs and hobbiests, but is quite powerful for the (sub $100) price.

Serious Magic's Ultra Key is very very good and very simple:
http://www.seriousmagic.com/ukoverview.cfm
It's simplicity does limit power, but it works very quickly and also includes many virual sets preconfigured.

As for "the best" (for a PC) look at After Effects and/or Combustion with something like dvMatt Pro, Ultimatte or Primatte Keyer added in.

After that, the next best level up takes you into feature-film grade tools.

Have fun.

Adi Head · September 11th, 2004, 06:43 PM

i edit with vegas. actually, i pretty much do everything within vegas: editing, sound editing (combined with cubase), color correction...
the only things i do out of vegas are motion manipulations (slow motion, etc) which i do in after effects.

i might be getting involved in a project which will have quite a lot of chroma keying. i'm not sure what the budget is. but i'd like to know which is the BEST software out there for DV, and understand how much better it is compared to other (less expensive) options, like using vegas, which i already have. once i have all the information, i'll be able to offer my client all the options and let HIM decide how much he wants to spend.

so far i have heard of chromanator and dvmatte pro.

thanks.

Chris McKee · September 11th, 2004, 09:18 PM

I've been using Ultra from Serious Magic... great results even with subpar lighting.

Nick Jushchyshyn · September 12th, 2004, 08:10 AM

If you already have After Effects, I would highly recommend getting the dvMatte Pro plugin. At that point, you should be all set.

One other note, though, is that there are MANY MANY MANY factors that go into compositing realistic bluescreen shots. I would strongly urge that you do not commit to a large project, or at least a timeline on a large project, without practicing quite a bit on your own first. The color of the screen and the setup of the lighting can have as much (or more) impact on the ease/difficulty of creating a good composite as the software in use.

If the project is mostly interviews in front of a screen, you really don't have a lot to worry about. It doesn't have to look "perfect" really and something like Vegas should be just fine. If this is more of a story and the compositing is meant to put characters into virtual sets, then (since it sounds like you have AE already) go with AE and add on dvMattePro. Just practice practice practice a lot before you get the shots.

Will this shoot be done in a professional studio or a DIY bluescreen setup?

Have fun.

Lloyd Roseblade · September 12th, 2004, 11:24 AM

How well can you chromakey DV anyway? I thought there wasn't enough colour information for it to be done all that well.

Would love to see some DV samples if anyone has done this effectively (especially for PAL).

Adi Head · September 12th, 2004, 12:04 PM

luckily, the project i will be working on is experimenting with blue/green screen as well. we're sort of learning as we go. i will be shooting and editing the project. after going over the script and some ideas, i suggested that we try chroma keying most of the movie. they liked the idea. i told them that for me it will be an experimenting experience because i've never really done chromakeying before. they liked it even more. so i'm not worried in that area. but i would like to know what i'm dealing with before hand.
thanks for the tips. i'll check out the dv mattepro plug-in.

Peter Jefferson · September 13th, 2004, 03:27 AM

(Have they added a color spill surpression feature yet? Haven't tried it for some time.)

it does, well V5 anyway :)

Nick Jushchyshyn · September 13th, 2004, 01:29 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Lloyd Roseblade : How well can you chromakey DV anyway? I thought there wasn't enough colour information for it to be done all that well.

Would love to see some DV samples if anyone has done this effectively (especially for PAL). -->>>
Many of the tools today (listed in earlier posts) get around the color issue in a number of ways. The most accurate is by factoring luma values into the composite cacluation along with color.

Here's a couple examples of composites from DV:
Martial Arts Training DVD Example

Old Fan Film project Example

These are both pretty compressed and fairly old, so it's hard to really gauge the quality, but it's all I have online right now. I'll look through some of the things I'm working on now to see if I can render a Hi-res example of something for the web. All of these were shot NTSC.

<<<-- Originally posted byPeter Jefferson: it does, well V5 anyway :) -->>>
That's cool. Definitely better than typical NLEs then. :)

Have fun.

Lloyd Roseblade · September 13th, 2004, 02:18 PM

Bloody hell Nick. They look great!

Think I might give this a go myself having seen them. Do you know if DV Chromakeying from PAL would be as good? I think NTSC is 4:1:1 right? PAL is 4:2:0, just wondering how much difference that makes?

Only way to tell I guess to have a play around with it.

Thanks for those.

September 11th, 2004, 11:53 AM	#1
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	which is the best software for chroma keying? which is the best software for chroma keying?

September 11th, 2004, 02:14 PM	#2
John Hartney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Elgin, Illinois Posts: 206	I use vegas, premiere pro and afteraffects. Of those, all of which are capable, afteraffects works best for me.... __________________ John Hartney Elgin, Illinois USA 847.742.9321

September 11th, 2004, 05:47 PM	#5
Richard Tamayo Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Davenport,IA. Posts: 111	You may want to checkout fxhome.com. They have a program called Chromanator for around $100. I don't know how good it is , I have never tried it. For that price I am not so sure of quality, everyones taste is different. Good luck. __________________ richard tamayo

September 12th, 2004, 11:24 AM	#10
Lloyd Roseblade Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Thatcham, UK Posts: 34	How well can you chromakey DV anyway? I thought there wasn't enough colour information for it to be done all that well. Would love to see some DV samples if anyone has done this effectively (especially for PAL). __________________ Lloyd " Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others." - Groucho Marx

September 13th, 2004, 02:18 PM	#14
Lloyd Roseblade Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Thatcham, UK Posts: 34	Bloody hell Nick. They look great! Think I might give this a go myself having seen them. Do you know if DV Chromakeying from PAL would be as good? I think NTSC is 4:1:1 right? PAL is 4:2:0, just wondering how much difference that makes? Only way to tell I guess to have a play around with it. Thanks for those. __________________ Lloyd " Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others." - Groucho Marx

September 11th, 2004, 03:42 PM	#3
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	i remember reading something about a program made especially for chroma keying and is considered THE application for doing so. can't remember the name though.

September 11th, 2004, 03:52 PM	#4
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	ok. did some more searching around and found it. just in case anyone is interested, the thread is titled: Chroma keying in vegas/miniDV - best way and it's located in the vegas forum. last post: april 28, 2004 thanks anyway.

September 11th, 2004, 06:04 PM	#6
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	What software do you have? What is your budget? BTW: Vegas Chroma keying OK, but still pretty weak if compared to dedicated compositing software. (Have they added a color spill surpression feature yet? Haven't tried it for some time.) I'm sure you can get by with it, but there are many programs that are dedicated to compositing that provide much greater control and power and lead to more realistic results. Cheapest I know of is Chromanator from CSBDigital: http://fxhome.com/chromanator/ It's targeted at amateurs and hobbiests, but is quite powerful for the (sub $100) price. Serious Magic's Ultra Key is very very good and very simple: http://www.seriousmagic.com/ukoverview.cfm It's simplicity does limit power, but it works very quickly and also includes many virual sets preconfigured. As for "the best" (for a PC) look at After Effects and/or Combustion with something like dvMatt Pro, Ultimatte or Primatte Keyer added in. After that, the next best level up takes you into feature-film grade tools. Have fun.

September 11th, 2004, 06:43 PM	#7
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	i edit with vegas. actually, i pretty much do everything within vegas: editing, sound editing (combined with cubase), color correction... the only things i do out of vegas are motion manipulations (slow motion, etc) which i do in after effects. i might be getting involved in a project which will have quite a lot of chroma keying. i'm not sure what the budget is. but i'd like to know which is the BEST software out there for DV, and understand how much better it is compared to other (less expensive) options, like using vegas, which i already have. once i have all the information, i'll be able to offer my client all the options and let HIM decide how much he wants to spend. so far i have heard of chromanator and dvmatte pro. thanks.

September 11th, 2004, 09:18 PM	#8
Chris McKee Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 47	I've been using Ultra from Serious Magic... great results even with subpar lighting.

September 12th, 2004, 08:10 AM	#9
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	If you already have After Effects, I would highly recommend getting the dvMatte Pro plugin. At that point, you should be all set. One other note, though, is that there are MANY MANY MANY factors that go into compositing realistic bluescreen shots. I would strongly urge that you do not commit to a large project, or at least a timeline on a large project, without practicing quite a bit on your own first. The color of the screen and the setup of the lighting can have as much (or more) impact on the ease/difficulty of creating a good composite as the software in use. If the project is mostly interviews in front of a screen, you really don't have a lot to worry about. It doesn't have to look "perfect" really and something like Vegas should be just fine. If this is more of a story and the compositing is meant to put characters into virtual sets, then (since it sounds like you have AE already) go with AE and add on dvMattePro. Just practice practice practice a lot before you get the shots. Will this shoot be done in a professional studio or a DIY bluescreen setup? Have fun.

September 12th, 2004, 12:04 PM	#11
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	luckily, the project i will be working on is experimenting with blue/green screen as well. we're sort of learning as we go. i will be shooting and editing the project. after going over the script and some ideas, i suggested that we try chroma keying most of the movie. they liked the idea. i told them that for me it will be an experimenting experience because i've never really done chromakeying before. they liked it even more. so i'm not worried in that area. but i would like to know what i'm dealing with before hand. thanks for the tips. i'll check out the dv mattepro plug-in.

September 13th, 2004, 03:27 AM	#12
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	(Have they added a color spill surpression feature yet? Haven't tried it for some time.) it does, well V5 anyway :)

September 13th, 2004, 01:29 PM	#13
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	<<<-- Originally posted by Lloyd Roseblade : How well can you chromakey DV anyway? I thought there wasn't enough colour information for it to be done all that well. Would love to see some DV samples if anyone has done this effectively (especially for PAL). -->>> Many of the tools today (listed in earlier posts) get around the color issue in a number of ways. The most accurate is by factoring luma values into the composite cacluation along with color. Here's a couple examples of composites from DV: Martial Arts Training DVD Example Old Fan Film project Example These are both pretty compressed and fairly old, so it's hard to really gauge the quality, but it's all I have online right now. I'll look through some of the things I'm working on now to see if I can render a Hi-res example of something for the web. All of these were shot NTSC. <<<-- Originally posted byPeter Jefferson: it does, well V5 anyway :) -->>> That's cool. Definitely better than typical NLEs then. :) Have fun.