Adobe Photoshop: How Useful? at DVinfo.net

Barry Rivadue · August 19th, 2004, 06:19 PM

Okay, another possibly naive question, but how have Photoshop users utilized this vast program within their NLEs? I have Vegas, but that's besides the point. I know Photoshop provides good titling options (yes?no?), but what else can it do to fully maximize/enhance an NLE program? Is their Elements version too minor for a sophisticated NLE?

Thanks!

Boyd Ostroff · August 19th, 2004, 06:58 PM

Not everyone will agree with this, but I think Photoshop elements is really a terrific program and a great value. In fact, I've been putting off buying the full version of Photoshop for years because Elements (and its predecessor, Photoshop LE) does almost everything I need. It supports multiple layers, lots of file types, tons of filters are included and it's really easy to use. My only gripe is that it doesn't include the curves command - it was in Photoshop LE but not carried over into Elements. Funny, in the different versions over the years they have intentionally left out different features to intentionally limit Photoshop LE and Elements. On the Mac I was quite content with the feature set of Photoshop LE 5.0, but unfortunately it won't run natively under OS X. On the PC I imagine this version will still run under the current OS'es however. You might have a look at it if you can still find a copy. It used to be bundled with many scanners and digital cameras. Afterwards, they started bundling Photoshop Elements 1.0 instead. That version is really not so great and has lots of limitations. Version 2.0 is much better.

With Photoshop Elements going for $90 it's certainly worth considering whether you need the more sophisticated features of Photoshop CS at $650.

As far as using it with an NLE, I think there are plenty of applications. Titling would certainly be an important one. I've used it to make mattes for compositing. It's also useful for massaging still frames from your videos. And of course if you do any digital still photography you'll want it.

I believe they "future proof" it pretty well. Last time I checked, you could upgrade from Elements to the full version for a pretty good price. So if you aren't sure what you need I think you could buy Elements, then upgrade to the full version afterwards without losing anything.

Jeff Donald · August 19th, 2004, 08:06 PM

Copies of Elements 2 can be found at Costco and Sam's in the $50 range. there was a small rebate recently also. Upgrades from Elements 2 to PS can be had for $299, but the offer expires next month, I think. The offer is direct from Adobe.

Pat Engh · August 20th, 2004, 07:50 AM

I do all my title work in Photoshop, as well as touching up pictures and logos.

I used to do all my graphics in A.E. but now I use premiere pro to animate all my photoshop layers.

Barry Rivadue · August 20th, 2004, 07:04 PM

Okay--who also uses Adobe After Effects in conjunction with their NLE? How does it complement Photoshop?

Josh Bass · June 29th, 2005, 04:57 PM

I wanted resurrect this briefly--

Can anyone tell me what the full version of Photoshop has that elements doesn't?

Also, is Photoshop LE a precursor to elements, or are they two different beasts? If so, what are the differences?

Christopher Lefchik · June 29th, 2005, 06:18 PM

Josh,

According to a Popular Photography review of Elements 3.0, here is what is missing compared to it's big brother, Photoshop.

"Elements 3.0 lacks a Curves adjustment, which is the most nuanced, albeit most difficult, color-fixing tool. It’s also missing certain high-level color-management functions, CMYK conversion, and the ability to view 'proof colors'—that is, to preview the way your image will look if it’s printed using a certain profile. There are no programmable actions, so you can’t get the program to repeat a series of steps. Flexibility with selections is limited, as is your ability to work within separate channels. There are lots more differences that the average user wouldn’t miss, but serious retouchers wouldn’t last a day without the excised layer masks and blending modes."

http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?...ber=2&preview=

Photoshop LE is a prescurser to Elements. I don't know what the differences are, except that Elements doesn't include the Curves filter. However, there are free actions that can add the Curves filter to Elements, like the one from http://www.earthboundlight.com/photo...ts-curves.html. However, you won't be able to edit the Curves adjustment layer once you've made the adjustments and closed the Curves box. (If you try to open it again Elements will complain that editing adjustment layers isn't supported. The adjustment layer will still work just fine, and can be edited in the full version of Photoshop.)

Josh Bass · June 29th, 2005, 07:50 PM

What do you mean by the "flexibility with selections is limited" Do you mean you can't shape your selection any way you want, or what?

Christopher Lefchik · June 29th, 2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

What do you mean by the "flexibility with selections is limited"

I didn't write that. As indicated, it was a quote from the Popular Photography review. Perhaps it means you can't turn selections into layer masks, as they write later in the section I quoted.

You can always try the Elements 3 trial version to see if it has the features you need. It is available for download at http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...atform=Windows.

Personally, I'm glad to have the full version Photoshop 7 that came with the old Adobe video collection. I’ve used many of the features it includes that Elements lacks. But not everyone needs those features. For under a hundred dollars, Elements 3.0 packs quite a punch. If I had to choose between paying $90 for Elements or $650 for Photoshop, I'd definitely give Elements a long, hard look.

You could also give the free, full-featured open source GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) a whirl. See http://www.gimp.org/about/introduction.html for more information.

Brian Handler · June 30th, 2005, 07:54 AM

I use photoshop on pretty much a daily basis while working with premiere.

I do a lot of creative framing via alpha/matte channels. The only time I really see myself getting involved with adjusting curves is making reflective surfaces and chromes...so if you don't see yourself doing that...or have another option for that stuff, then I'd get elements.

I use CS2 btw.

After Effects can do sooo much, I can't even scratch the surface. I've been watching the Total Training set for 6.5pro and my god...

Van Lam · June 30th, 2005, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

Can anyone tell me what the full version of Photoshop has that elements doesn't?

To add to what Christopher Lefchik said:

I'm not sure, but I think it doesn't include any of the new features from CS2 (Vanishing Point, Noise Reduction Filter, Lens Distortion filter, Box/Surface Blur Filter, spot healing)

And yes, Photoshop is very useful: Creatings masks, titles, credits, lower 3rds, logos.... the list goes on. I really believe Photoshop (or any other capable image program) is one of the most importent apps in the Graphics field (by that I mean Video, Photography, CGI, Compositing, etc)

Elie Zakaria · July 4th, 2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Rivadue

Okay--who also uses Adobe After Effects in conjunction with their NLE? How does it complement Photoshop?

Good question, here is my typical workflow...

1-Capture and edit in Premiere Pro 1.5

2-All pictures are touched up and colour enhanced in Photoshop

3-If any logos need to have an alpha channel background, that is easy to do in Photoshop, the file is exported in TGA with AC and imported into Premiere.

4-I do all my picture animation in After FX as I find it quicker to animate each layer and more precise than Premiere, all animations are exported to AVI and then imported into Premiere

5-If any audio work is needed i.e touching up, noise reduction hiss reduction etc, all that is done in Audition, then the audio is brought back into Premiere.

6-So the project is complete and now I want to export to DVD, I export using RT export to disk (using RT.X100) and brought into Encore.

7-In Encore you can link a button to a transition clip, where it's end action = second menu etc. The transition clip can be created in Premiere and After FX.

8- Encore is tightly integrated with Photoshop, SOOOO if you have menus you want to enhance, right click on the menu and select edit in Photoshop!

9-you can now further customise your menu then save back to encore litterally in realtime

10-you can also enhance Encore titles as well in Photoshop!

So you can see all the Adobe software is very integrated, and Photoshop is essencial in many cases.

Regards,
Elie

Riley Harmon · July 11th, 2005, 09:11 AM

I use photoshop, after fx, and premiere on a daily basis...all in and out of each other, they're so integral to my work. I've been working/learning after fx for about 5 years and i love it. I thought about trying out shake..

August 19th, 2004, 06:19 PM	#1
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	Adobe Photoshop: How Useful? Okay, another possibly naive question, but how have Photoshop users utilized this vast program within their NLEs? I have Vegas, but that's besides the point. I know Photoshop provides good titling options (yes?no?), but what else can it do to fully maximize/enhance an NLE program? Is their Elements version too minor for a sophisticated NLE? Thanks!

August 19th, 2004, 08:06 PM	#3
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Copies of Elements 2 can be found at Costco and Sam's in the $50 range. there was a small rebate recently also. Upgrades from Elements 2 to PS can be had for $299, but the offer expires next month, I think. The offer is direct from Adobe. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 29th, 2005, 04:57 PM	#6
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	I wanted resurrect this briefly-- Can anyone tell me what the full version of Photoshop has that elements doesn't? Also, is Photoshop LE a precursor to elements, or are they two different beasts? If so, what are the differences? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 29th, 2005, 07:50 PM	#8
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	What do you mean by the "flexibility with selections is limited" Do you mean you can't shape your selection any way you want, or what? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 30th, 2005, 07:54 AM	#10
Brian Handler Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 118	I use photoshop on pretty much a daily basis while working with premiere. I do a lot of creative framing via alpha/matte channels. The only time I really see myself getting involved with adjusting curves is making reflective surfaces and chromes...so if you don't see yourself doing that...or have another option for that stuff, then I'd get elements. I use CS2 btw. After Effects can do sooo much, I can't even scratch the surface. I've been watching the Total Training set for 6.5pro and my god... __________________ Email me for projects in Ohio or Indiana. Lighting > Everything.

August 19th, 2004, 06:58 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	Not everyone will agree with this, but I think Photoshop elements is really a terrific program and a great value. In fact, I've been putting off buying the full version of Photoshop for years because Elements (and its predecessor, Photoshop LE) does almost everything I need. It supports multiple layers, lots of file types, tons of filters are included and it's really easy to use. My only gripe is that it doesn't include the curves command - it was in Photoshop LE but not carried over into Elements. Funny, in the different versions over the years they have intentionally left out different features to intentionally limit Photoshop LE and Elements. On the Mac I was quite content with the feature set of Photoshop LE 5.0, but unfortunately it won't run natively under OS X. On the PC I imagine this version will still run under the current OS'es however. You might have a look at it if you can still find a copy. It used to be bundled with many scanners and digital cameras. Afterwards, they started bundling Photoshop Elements 1.0 instead. That version is really not so great and has lots of limitations. Version 2.0 is much better. With Photoshop Elements going for $90 it's certainly worth considering whether you need the more sophisticated features of Photoshop CS at $650. As far as using it with an NLE, I think there are plenty of applications. Titling would certainly be an important one. I've used it to make mattes for compositing. It's also useful for massaging still frames from your videos. And of course if you do any digital still photography you'll want it. I believe they "future proof" it pretty well. Last time I checked, you could upgrade from Elements to the full version for a pretty good price. So if you aren't sure what you need I think you could buy Elements, then upgrade to the full version afterwards without losing anything.

August 20th, 2004, 07:50 AM	#4
Pat Engh Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 75	I do all my title work in Photoshop, as well as touching up pictures and logos. I used to do all my graphics in A.E. but now I use premiere pro to animate all my photoshop layers.

August 20th, 2004, 07:04 PM	#5
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	Okay--who also uses Adobe After Effects in conjunction with their NLE? How does it complement Photoshop?

June 29th, 2005, 06:18 PM	#7
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	Josh, According to a Popular Photography review of Elements 3.0, here is what is missing compared to it's big brother, Photoshop. "Elements 3.0 lacks a Curves adjustment, which is the most nuanced, albeit most difficult, color-fixing tool. It’s also missing certain high-level color-management functions, CMYK conversion, and the ability to view 'proof colors'—that is, to preview the way your image will look if it’s printed using a certain profile. There are no programmable actions, so you can’t get the program to repeat a series of steps. Flexibility with selections is limited, as is your ability to work within separate channels. There are lots more differences that the average user wouldn’t miss, but serious retouchers wouldn’t last a day without the excised layer masks and blending modes." http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?...ber=2&preview= Photoshop LE is a prescurser to Elements. I don't know what the differences are, except that Elements doesn't include the Curves filter. However, there are free actions that can add the Curves filter to Elements, like the one from http://www.earthboundlight.com/photo...ts-curves.html. However, you won't be able to edit the Curves adjustment layer once you've made the adjustments and closed the Curves box. (If you try to open it again Elements will complain that editing adjustment layers isn't supported. The adjustment layer will still work just fine, and can be edited in the full version of Photoshop.)

July 11th, 2005, 09:11 AM	#13
Riley Harmon Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	I use photoshop, after fx, and premiere on a daily basis...all in and out of each other, they're so integral to my work. I've been working/learning after fx for about 5 years and i love it. I thought about trying out shake..