Can't wait any longer... at DVinfo.net

Michael Best · June 9th, 2004, 06:48 AM

I have used this forum to chart my course roughly speaking. I've got the cameras at this point and have by recommendation, downloaded trial versions of various NLE's - Adobe, Vegas, Avid.
Problem is, I can't get a feel for any of them due to what I believe are computer issues. I realize it could be a myriad of things but I can't attack the problem without getting some starting points. In all programs I can't get past the capture process, they all take a little footage and stop, studder, stop, etc. What really gets me is I have fewer issues just trying a simple program like Studio 8 or sonic DVD.

The computers weren't built around video I just have them and now need to get them set up properly, hopefully acheiving functionality with what I have at least for now.

Windows XP Pro
P4 2.53
512 mb ddr
ATI 9600 XT
Terratec DMX/6 fire
Need to continue in additional post.........

Michael Best · June 9th, 2004, 06:56 AM

In addition, a small form factor computer with the same specs with an ATI 8500dv video card instead and an Audigy LS sound card.

Also a 2.8C Laptop.

I'm low on the ram end I know so I was thinking of pulling one stick and putting in one computer to increase memory. Another possible culprit is the firewire card. To no avail, I have defragged the hard drives (which were not listed > 120g WD 8 mb cache).
They are partitioned C: 30%, D: 70%. I'm truly frustrated and feel I should have enough computer power to be doing something. It started with massive frame dropping. I have tried transferring directly from the XL1s and a small Panasonic I bought strictly for capture, same result. I may have missed some vital info for assessment purposes, any input/suggestions are enormously appreciated. THANKS.

Ronnie Grahn · June 9th, 2004, 09:06 AM

Check that the HD's are in U-DMA mode.

You do this in the Control Panel -> System -> Hardware tab -> Device Manager -> IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers -> Primary and secondary channel -> Advanced settings tab.

Mike Rehmus · June 9th, 2004, 10:22 AM

You cannot use the same physical drive as your C drive to store AVI files during capture. Windows randomly accesses the C drive and when it does that, your video data gets dropped.

Add a separate drive for video and dropped frames should clear up all other issues aside. Put it on the secondary IDE channel as the Master.

You have enough memory and a fast enough processor. I don't know about the firewire card though.

But the main issue is the lack of a second drive.

Josh Brusin · June 9th, 2004, 10:25 AM

new macs are out.

q;~(0)3
(i will never make a dumb face again-except for the cleft chin it's a drooling image_)

Michael Best · June 9th, 2004, 10:33 AM

Mike, I'm using the second partition (D:) for the demo program and any captured video, nothing is in the (C:) drive unless the system still accesses it for other functions during capture then I certainly will add another drive.

Edward Troxel · June 9th, 2004, 10:39 AM

Partitioning does NOT create a new drive - just a new drive letter. In fact, it will create even MORE overhead.

However, don't you dare tell my laptop I can't capture to drive C:. It might believe you and it captures fine right now. (And prints fine from that drive as well.) I've since gotten an external firewire drive which I capture to and print from but the internal still works when I need it to do so.

Michael Best · June 9th, 2004, 11:19 AM

Does it matter if the actual NLE program is on the C: drive or should it be on the secondary drive as well?

Edward Troxel · June 9th, 2004, 11:48 AM

The program itself should be installed on drive C. The video files should reside on the other drive.

Michael Best · June 9th, 2004, 11:57 AM

Ed, you mentioned an exteranl drive, I have a firewire enclosure I could put the secondary drive in, that mobility would be nice, I just wonder how much, if any, speed I'd be compromising. I also noticed a product (mainly because the price was close) it's
a Western Digital Media Center, with two fire ports and the hard drive right in it. It would be only $40 more than the stand alone hard drive I just don't know if it really offers any benefits. Lastly, hopefully, If your C: drive is FAT32 can your secondary be NTSC?

Edward Troxel · June 9th, 2004, 01:02 PM

In the laptop, the internal drive is 5400 RPM (and, yes, it captures video fine) and the external firewire drive is 7200 RPM. Accessing the external is faster than accessing the internal. I cannot tell you that an external drive will be faster than the same drive connected directly, though.

If you are running Win2K or WinXP, your drives can be formatted as either Fat32 or NTFS (NTSC is a video format). The OS will see either just fine. However, I'd recommend them both being NTFS.

Rob Lohman · June 10th, 2004, 02:30 AM

Michael: did you follow Ronnie's suggestion? It sounds like an
UDMA problem.

I've been capturing to computer with single drives without any
problems myself.

Yes your secondary can be NTFS. Better yet would be everything
NTFS.

Michael Best · June 10th, 2004, 05:51 AM

I'm going to devote some time this weekend to implementing all your suggestions, which I know will save me a ton of time and headache. I have shot a bunch of footage and it's really frustrating that I can't do anything with it. I just want to get going. I invested in two of the Canon's and it's killing me that I can't do anything with them. I will follow up on the resolution of these issues in the hopes that it may benefit someone else in my position. You guys are priceless - Thanks.

Michael Best · June 11th, 2004, 06:01 AM

Some progress -

My controllers were set to U-DMA and driveswere formatted NTFS.
I bought another hard drive last night and as recommended made it a master on the secondary IDE controller. Pulled my
internet connection, closed unused apps, and dropped my resolution. I also grabbed Scenalyzer to try out. It stuttered
as did Avid & Adobe, (captures for 3 seconds...stops briefly, and repeats this). The Vegas 5 demo worked, no stuttering. Maybe the others demand more memory. I thought someone mentioned
output limitations with these demos -- I tried rendering a 20 second AVI clip and it did stutter on playback but I'm thinking that involves other issues. I found Vegas very familiar having worked with Acid before. I don't think I'm out of the woods but your recommendations have moved me several steps forward. Once
I started throwing some scenes and music together I was having so much fun I'd of stayed up all night. Is anybody aware of any limitations of academic versions of software? I partially run a non-profit orgainzation and qualify for academic software. THANKS.

Rob Lohman · June 11th, 2004, 06:36 AM

Most acadamic versions have no limits other then license limits.

I find it very odd your machine stutters at all. That thing should
play and record video without any problem whatsoever. Any
chance you are running an anti-virus application?

June 9th, 2004, 06:48 AM	#1
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Can't wait any longer... I have used this forum to chart my course roughly speaking. I've got the cameras at this point and have by recommendation, downloaded trial versions of various NLE's - Adobe, Vegas, Avid. Problem is, I can't get a feel for any of them due to what I believe are computer issues. I realize it could be a myriad of things but I can't attack the problem without getting some starting points. In all programs I can't get past the capture process, they all take a little footage and stop, studder, stop, etc. What really gets me is I have fewer issues just trying a simple program like Studio 8 or sonic DVD. The computers weren't built around video I just have them and now need to get them set up properly, hopefully acheiving functionality with what I have at least for now. Windows XP Pro P4 2.53 512 mb ddr ATI 9600 XT Terratec DMX/6 fire Need to continue in additional post.........

June 9th, 2004, 09:06 AM	#3
Ronnie Grahn Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Helsingborg, Sweden Posts: 77	Check that the HD's are in U-DMA mode. You do this in the Control Panel -> System -> Hardware tab -> Device Manager -> IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers -> Primary and secondary channel -> Advanced settings tab. __________________ www.ninjafury.com \| www.ronniegrahn.com

June 9th, 2004, 10:22 AM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	You cannot use the same physical drive as your C drive to store AVI files during capture. Windows randomly accesses the C drive and when it does that, your video data gets dropped. Add a separate drive for video and dropped frames should clear up all other issues aside. Put it on the secondary IDE channel as the Master. You have enough memory and a fast enough processor. I don't know about the firewire card though. But the main issue is the lack of a second drive. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

June 10th, 2004, 02:30 AM	#12
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Michael: did you follow Ronnie's suggestion? It sounds like an UDMA problem. I've been capturing to computer with single drives without any problems myself. Yes your secondary can be NTFS. Better yet would be everything NTFS. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 11th, 2004, 06:36 AM	#15
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Most acadamic versions have no limits other then license limits. I find it very odd your machine stutters at all. That thing should play and record video without any problem whatsoever. Any chance you are running an anti-virus application? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 9th, 2004, 06:56 AM	#2
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	In addition, a small form factor computer with the same specs with an ATI 8500dv video card instead and an Audigy LS sound card. Also a 2.8C Laptop. I'm low on the ram end I know so I was thinking of pulling one stick and putting in one computer to increase memory. Another possible culprit is the firewire card. To no avail, I have defragged the hard drives (which were not listed > 120g WD 8 mb cache). They are partitioned C: 30%, D: 70%. I'm truly frustrated and feel I should have enough computer power to be doing something. It started with massive frame dropping. I have tried transferring directly from the XL1s and a small Panasonic I bought strictly for capture, same result. I may have missed some vital info for assessment purposes, any input/suggestions are enormously appreciated. THANKS.

June 9th, 2004, 10:25 AM	#5
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	new macs are out. q;~(0)3 (i will never make a dumb face again-except for the cleft chin it's a drooling image_)

June 9th, 2004, 10:33 AM	#6
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Mike, I'm using the second partition (D:) for the demo program and any captured video, nothing is in the (C:) drive unless the system still accesses it for other functions during capture then I certainly will add another drive.

June 9th, 2004, 10:39 AM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Partitioning does NOT create a new drive - just a new drive letter. In fact, it will create even MORE overhead. However, don't you dare tell my laptop I can't capture to drive C:. It might believe you and it captures fine right now. (And prints fine from that drive as well.) I've since gotten an external firewire drive which I capture to and print from but the internal still works when I need it to do so.

June 9th, 2004, 11:19 AM	#8
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Does it matter if the actual NLE program is on the C: drive or should it be on the secondary drive as well?

June 9th, 2004, 11:48 AM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The program itself should be installed on drive C. The video files should reside on the other drive.

June 9th, 2004, 11:57 AM	#10
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Ed, you mentioned an exteranl drive, I have a firewire enclosure I could put the secondary drive in, that mobility would be nice, I just wonder how much, if any, speed I'd be compromising. I also noticed a product (mainly because the price was close) it's a Western Digital Media Center, with two fire ports and the hard drive right in it. It would be only $40 more than the stand alone hard drive I just don't know if it really offers any benefits. Lastly, hopefully, If your C: drive is FAT32 can your secondary be NTSC?

June 9th, 2004, 01:02 PM	#11
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	In the laptop, the internal drive is 5400 RPM (and, yes, it captures video fine) and the external firewire drive is 7200 RPM. Accessing the external is faster than accessing the internal. I cannot tell you that an external drive will be faster than the same drive connected directly, though. If you are running Win2K or WinXP, your drives can be formatted as either Fat32 or NTFS (NTSC is a video format). The OS will see either just fine. However, I'd recommend them both being NTFS.

June 10th, 2004, 05:51 AM	#13
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	I'm going to devote some time this weekend to implementing all your suggestions, which I know will save me a ton of time and headache. I have shot a bunch of footage and it's really frustrating that I can't do anything with it. I just want to get going. I invested in two of the Canon's and it's killing me that I can't do anything with them. I will follow up on the resolution of these issues in the hopes that it may benefit someone else in my position. You guys are priceless - Thanks.

June 11th, 2004, 06:01 AM	#14
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Some progress - My controllers were set to U-DMA and driveswere formatted NTFS. I bought another hard drive last night and as recommended made it a master on the secondary IDE controller. Pulled my internet connection, closed unused apps, and dropped my resolution. I also grabbed Scenalyzer to try out. It stuttered as did Avid & Adobe, (captures for 3 seconds...stops briefly, and repeats this). The Vegas 5 demo worked, no stuttering. Maybe the others demand more memory. I thought someone mentioned output limitations with these demos -- I tried rendering a 20 second AVI clip and it did stutter on playback but I'm thinking that involves other issues. I found Vegas very familiar having worked with Acid before. I don't think I'm out of the woods but your recommendations have moved me several steps forward. Once I started throwing some scenes and music together I was having so much fun I'd of stayed up all night. Is anybody aware of any limitations of academic versions of software? I partially run a non-profit orgainzation and qualify for academic software. THANKS.