Multiple NLEs? at DVinfo.net

Barry Rivadue · April 26th, 2004, 05:42 PM

I just got Vegas 5, and have been very happy with Vegas 4--along with related software Acid Pro. I've always had the editing bug, and I'm perfectly happy with Vegas, but out of curiosity I might sample other demos, which leads me to these questions...how many here find that having two NLEs to work from a decided advantage? Also, how does Edius compare to Vegas as an alternate NLE? I know it's like mixing apples and oranges, but that's what rather interests me. What does Edius offer over Vegas as a secondary or complimentary NLE, if anything? Any mix 'n matches that work for you?

Rob Lohman · April 27th, 2004, 03:02 PM

I can't give you answers on Edius since I've never used it. I'm not
sure how another NLE would help out much. Most things that
you might not be able to do good / fast / easy / good enough
inside your NLE are usually in the realm of color correction, 3D
work, 2D work and other post/effects like things. Usually there
are far better applications out there than an NLE to handle it.
So usually you see someone using Premiere and After Effects
or Combustion, Digital Fusion, Shake, Inferno etc. etc.

All serious NLE's and the ones you usually stick to if you do this
work a lot offer anything you could basically ever wish for in
editing and even basic effect / correction work.

Barry Rivadue · April 27th, 2004, 04:49 PM

Good point; maybe I should explore various specialized applications I'm not familiar with.

Mike Rehmus · April 27th, 2004, 09:48 PM

Most people that I know who own Edius use it whenever they can and go to other programs only for some specialized work.

A great favorite, so I'm told, is to do all of the video editing in Edius (RT, fast handling, very high quality, etc.) than move over to Vegas for the final audio sweetening.

I only use Edius or After Effects (for compositing). Don't need much else other than a good sound editor to round it all out. I use Sound Forge for that.

Barry Rivadue · April 28th, 2004, 06:58 AM

What I find curious is that I can't find that much in the way of substantial reviews/articles about Edius on the net compared to other NLEs, but what I've gleaned from various forums has seemed positive--so that's why I'm somewhat intrigued. I also sense that it's a continually improving product that is finding new devotees all the time. I still like Vegas, but being an "editing junkie" I'm always curious about other evolving programs too!

Casey Visco · April 30th, 2004, 03:51 PM

Well, I've since given up on DV pretty much altogether and run a Leitch/DPS Velocity system now. But I've extensively used Premiere Pro, Edius, and others in the not-too-distant past.

I will say that, as far as interface and usability is concerned, Premiere Pro is vastly superior to Edius. Edius doesnt allow you to see picons on the timeline, a gross error in my opinion. You can't zoom in and out efficiently, and not at all with the keyboard. You can't change any keyboard shortcuts to optimize your work flow. The interface is an awful white and cannot be changed. The FIRST thing I did when I got Premiere Pro was make the interface a nice dark gray, and very low contrast. The focus should be on the image, not on the software you're using. All of the high end, professional applications understand this.

The waveform monitor and vectorscopes cannot be resized. Big mistake, as you can't do any really critical analysis on a scope that small. The color corrector in Edius is also nothing more than a toy. And for serious image manipulation, you would certainly need an additional peice of software to handle this.

I also find fault with Edius' capture method. You don't have the ability to organize your captured files or even NAME your captured files. You'd have to go into File Manager and rename the clips, then reimport them.

Just about the ONLY thing Edius has going for it, is it's ability to natively, and without any hardware, edit in the Canopus codec, and firewire the Canopus codec out to a deck. Premiere cannot do this without buying a DVStorm or DVRaptor, etc, and the requisite plug-ins. And, as far as DV Codec's go, Canopus' is hands down the absolute best.

Premiere Pro certainly has its faults too, but not NEARLY as many as Edius. And for the money, both at about the same price, Pro is a much much much better buy.

In short, I like Canopus, they have a dynamite codec, and the Edius engine is very solid. The program itself needs A LOT of work, but it certainly has the potential to become something great. They really need to take a look at their competition on ALL levels and make a program that will hold up in that market. In its current version, 2, it doesn't come close to Adobe or Apples offerings.

Casey Visco · April 30th, 2004, 04:03 PM

And, in terms of just color correction, After Effects is severly lacking in toolset, and workflow. I used to use Combustion 2, and then 3 for color, and it kept me happy. But recently I began using Digital Fusion 4 for color and compositing, and it has just about the best interface and tool set for this kind of work I've found yet. It's a good bit more expensive than C3 or AE, but it's certainly well worth it's cost.

The other beautiful thing about Digital Fusion, is its support and its development team. If you run into a bug, you can call them up and get a patch out right away typically. Try doing that with Adobe! If you're lucky they'll build the bug fix into their next release and then sell it to you as an upgrade.

Digital Fusion's development team is small and led by actual compositing and effects people, and likewise the software is extremely intuitive and non limiting. Adobe's After Effects development team is huge (around 40 people), and is driven more by the prospect of selling a product and making money than providing a solid effects platform.

Anyway, just my 10 cents, sorry for rambling ;)

Barry Rivadue · April 30th, 2004, 06:51 PM

Definitely worth 25 cents in my opinion. :D

Right now I'm pretty much sticking with Vegas 5 since I have alot of projects coming up and I might as well concentrate on that. I like your words about Digital Fusion--supplemental programs like that make the most sense at this time, I think, though DF4 is a tad beyond my budget right now. ;)

April 26th, 2004, 05:42 PM	#1
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	Multiple NLEs? I just got Vegas 5, and have been very happy with Vegas 4--along with related software Acid Pro. I've always had the editing bug, and I'm perfectly happy with Vegas, but out of curiosity I might sample other demos, which leads me to these questions...how many here find that having two NLEs to work from a decided advantage? Also, how does Edius compare to Vegas as an alternate NLE? I know it's like mixing apples and oranges, but that's what rather interests me. What does Edius offer over Vegas as a secondary or complimentary NLE, if anything? Any mix 'n matches that work for you?

April 27th, 2004, 03:02 PM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I can't give you answers on Edius since I've never used it. I'm not sure how another NLE would help out much. Most things that you might not be able to do good / fast / easy / good enough inside your NLE are usually in the realm of color correction, 3D work, 2D work and other post/effects like things. Usually there are far better applications out there than an NLE to handle it. So usually you see someone using Premiere and After Effects or Combustion, Digital Fusion, Shake, Inferno etc. etc. All serious NLE's and the ones you usually stick to if you do this work a lot offer anything you could basically ever wish for in editing and even basic effect / correction work. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 27th, 2004, 09:48 PM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Most people that I know who own Edius use it whenever they can and go to other programs only for some specialized work. A great favorite, so I'm told, is to do all of the video editing in Edius (RT, fast handling, very high quality, etc.) than move over to Vegas for the final audio sweetening. I only use Edius or After Effects (for compositing). Don't need much else other than a good sound editor to round it all out. I use Sound Forge for that. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

April 30th, 2004, 03:51 PM	#6
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	Well, I've since given up on DV pretty much altogether and run a Leitch/DPS Velocity system now. But I've extensively used Premiere Pro, Edius, and others in the not-too-distant past. I will say that, as far as interface and usability is concerned, Premiere Pro is vastly superior to Edius. Edius doesnt allow you to see picons on the timeline, a gross error in my opinion. You can't zoom in and out efficiently, and not at all with the keyboard. You can't change any keyboard shortcuts to optimize your work flow. The interface is an awful white and cannot be changed. The FIRST thing I did when I got Premiere Pro was make the interface a nice dark gray, and very low contrast. The focus should be on the image, not on the software you're using. All of the high end, professional applications understand this. The waveform monitor and vectorscopes cannot be resized. Big mistake, as you can't do any really critical analysis on a scope that small. The color corrector in Edius is also nothing more than a toy. And for serious image manipulation, you would certainly need an additional peice of software to handle this. I also find fault with Edius' capture method. You don't have the ability to organize your captured files or even NAME your captured files. You'd have to go into File Manager and rename the clips, then reimport them. Just about the ONLY thing Edius has going for it, is it's ability to natively, and without any hardware, edit in the Canopus codec, and firewire the Canopus codec out to a deck. Premiere cannot do this without buying a DVStorm or DVRaptor, etc, and the requisite plug-ins. And, as far as DV Codec's go, Canopus' is hands down the absolute best. Premiere Pro certainly has its faults too, but not NEARLY as many as Edius. And for the money, both at about the same price, Pro is a much much much better buy. In short, I like Canopus, they have a dynamite codec, and the Edius engine is very solid. The program itself needs A LOT of work, but it certainly has the potential to become something great. They really need to take a look at their competition on ALL levels and make a program that will hold up in that market. In its current version, 2, it doesn't come close to Adobe or Apples offerings. __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

April 30th, 2004, 04:03 PM	#7
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	And, in terms of just color correction, After Effects is severly lacking in toolset, and workflow. I used to use Combustion 2, and then 3 for color, and it kept me happy. But recently I began using Digital Fusion 4 for color and compositing, and it has just about the best interface and tool set for this kind of work I've found yet. It's a good bit more expensive than C3 or AE, but it's certainly well worth it's cost. The other beautiful thing about Digital Fusion, is its support and its development team. If you run into a bug, you can call them up and get a patch out right away typically. Try doing that with Adobe! If you're lucky they'll build the bug fix into their next release and then sell it to you as an upgrade. Digital Fusion's development team is small and led by actual compositing and effects people, and likewise the software is extremely intuitive and non limiting. Adobe's After Effects development team is huge (around 40 people), and is driven more by the prospect of selling a product and making money than providing a solid effects platform. Anyway, just my 10 cents, sorry for rambling ;) __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

April 27th, 2004, 04:49 PM	#3
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	Good point; maybe I should explore various specialized applications I'm not familiar with.

April 28th, 2004, 06:58 AM	#5
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	What I find curious is that I can't find that much in the way of substantial reviews/articles about Edius on the net compared to other NLEs, but what I've gleaned from various forums has seemed positive--so that's why I'm somewhat intrigued. I also sense that it's a continually improving product that is finding new devotees all the time. I still like Vegas, but being an "editing junkie" I'm always curious about other evolving programs too!

April 30th, 2004, 06:51 PM	#8
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	Definitely worth 25 cents in my opinion. :D Right now I'm pretty much sticking with Vegas 5 since I have alot of projects coming up and I might as well concentrate on that. I like your words about Digital Fusion--supplemental programs like that make the most sense at this time, I think, though DF4 is a tad beyond my budget right now. ;)