Good 4:4:4 Video Capture Device?

Mike Rehmus · March 19th, 2004, 06:42 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Martin Munthe : No the Targa is 4:2:2 hardware. The codec and software handling is 4:4:4. Targa and CineWave are the same thing. CineWave uses a 16-bit 4:4:4:4 codec if you want it to. That does not mean it captures 4:4:4 and outputs 4:4:4. And when it comes to digital video formats there are really only two devices that deliver 4:4:4 and that's HDCAM SR and D5. -->>>

I think you have to add D-9 in there don't you?

Akin Vincent · March 20th, 2004, 03:37 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : <<<-- Originally posted by Martin Munthe : No the Targa is 4:2:2 hardware. The codec and software handling is 4:4:4. Targa and CineWave are the same thing. CineWave uses a 16-bit 4:4:4:4 codec if you want it to. That does not mean it captures 4:4:4 and outputs 4:4:4. And when it comes to digital video formats there are really only two devices that deliver 4:4:4 and that's HDCAM SR and D5. -->>>

I think you have to add D-9 in there don't you? -->>>

Points of correction,the only tape format as of now that records the full RGB 4:4:4 signal is HDCAM SR.
D5 and D9 are 4:2:2 formats only.
Another thing is that quicktime is not compatible with 4:4:4 RGB video(meaning that MAC is not compatible) and that is why digital voodoo is switching completely to the PC platform.

Graeme Nattress · March 20th, 2004, 05:32 AM

The Mac can do 4:4:4 RGB - don't let yourself be taken in by Digital Voodoo. They moved to the PC platform because they burned all their mac customers. They promised product and didn't deliver, and promised features that didn't work. They lost their head guy, who formed black magic design, and who's products are going from strength to strength. He's also a complete quicktime guru.....

Graeme

Akin Vincent · March 20th, 2004, 10:42 AM

Hmmm,i am yet to see a mac based NLE with the capability of capturing uncompressed 4:4:4 RGB.I have looked but they all seem to be PC based or on other platforms including even linux(Smoke SD).
Mac based NLEs can process internally in that format but capture?A big question mark there.

Martin Munthe · March 20th, 2004, 11:23 AM

Akin: Thanks for the input. I thought D5 was 4:4:4 but I was wrong.

No there are no MacOS solutions for hardware 4:4:4 to my knowledge. But that doesn't have anything to do with Macs being more limited. It's basically the same hardware and there's nothing in MacOS that can't handle 4:4:4.

Bluefish444 (sister company to Digital Voodoo) doesn't offer any 4:4:4 solutions despite the name. And all of the cards are QuickTime based despite Bluefish/Voodoos claims to QT being inferior to whatever.

It wasn't only bad business behavior that scared Voodoo out of the water. Voodoo was started by Grant Petty who now rund DeckLink. How many cards do you think Voodoo sold after their former engineering genius started selling DeckLink HD's at $2K? And now that DeckLink is running on PPro I don't think we'll se much more from Bluefish either but that just me speculating.

Devlyn Hukowich · March 24th, 2004, 11:51 AM

Don't forget captuing in 4:4:4 uncompressed equates to 540Mb per second or about 190GB per hour of video. My experience says that not even in professional video productions (TV movies) is 4:4:4 used. The standard is DigiBeta (4:2:2) and even it is compressed slightly (1.3:1), even that is about 95GB per hour.
If you can record from the LaserDisc player to a high quality hardware DV codec (Canopus AVDC-100 or the like) the image quality will be more that acceptable. The problems will be with the conversion to DVD however at high bit rates (8Mbps) you will still be impressed with the final result.

Good Luck

Devlyn

March 19th, 2004, 06:42 PM	#16
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	<<<-- Originally posted by Martin Munthe : No the Targa is 4:2:2 hardware. The codec and software handling is 4:4:4. Targa and CineWave are the same thing. CineWave uses a 16-bit 4:4:4:4 codec if you want it to. That does not mean it captures 4:4:4 and outputs 4:4:4. And when it comes to digital video formats there are really only two devices that deliver 4:4:4 and that's HDCAM SR and D5. -->>> I think you have to add D-9 in there don't you? __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

March 20th, 2004, 05:32 AM	#18
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	The Mac can do 4:4:4 RGB - don't let yourself be taken in by Digital Voodoo. They moved to the PC platform because they burned all their mac customers. They promised product and didn't deliver, and promised features that didn't work. They lost their head guy, who formed black magic design, and who's products are going from strength to strength. He's also a complete quicktime guru..... Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

March 20th, 2004, 11:23 AM	#20
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	Akin: Thanks for the input. I thought D5 was 4:4:4 but I was wrong. No there are no MacOS solutions for hardware 4:4:4 to my knowledge. But that doesn't have anything to do with Macs being more limited. It's basically the same hardware and there's nothing in MacOS that can't handle 4:4:4. Bluefish444 (sister company to Digital Voodoo) doesn't offer any 4:4:4 solutions despite the name. And all of the cards are QuickTime based despite Bluefish/Voodoos claims to QT being inferior to whatever. It wasn't only bad business behavior that scared Voodoo out of the water. Voodoo was started by Grant Petty who now rund DeckLink. How many cards do you think Voodoo sold after their former engineering genius started selling DeckLink HD's at $2K? And now that DeckLink is running on PPro I don't think we'll se much more from Bluefish either but that just me speculating. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

March 24th, 2004, 11:51 AM	#21
Devlyn Hukowich Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 40	File Sizes Don't forget captuing in 4:4:4 uncompressed equates to 540Mb per second or about 190GB per hour of video. My experience says that not even in professional video productions (TV movies) is 4:4:4 used. The standard is DigiBeta (4:2:2) and even it is compressed slightly (1.3:1), even that is about 95GB per hour. If you can record from the LaserDisc player to a high quality hardware DV codec (Canopus AVDC-100 or the like) the image quality will be more that acceptable. The problems will be with the conversion to DVD however at high bit rates (8Mbps) you will still be impressed with the final result. Good Luck Devlyn

March 20th, 2004, 03:37 AM	#17
Akin Vincent Tourist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vienna,Austria Posts: 4	<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : <<<-- Originally posted by Martin Munthe : No the Targa is 4:2:2 hardware. The codec and software handling is 4:4:4. Targa and CineWave are the same thing. CineWave uses a 16-bit 4:4:4:4 codec if you want it to. That does not mean it captures 4:4:4 and outputs 4:4:4. And when it comes to digital video formats there are really only two devices that deliver 4:4:4 and that's HDCAM SR and D5. -->>> I think you have to add D-9 in there don't you? -->>> Points of correction,the only tape format as of now that records the full RGB 4:4:4 signal is HDCAM SR. D5 and D9 are 4:2:2 formats only. Another thing is that quicktime is not compatible with 4:4:4 RGB video(meaning that MAC is not compatible) and that is why digital voodoo is switching completely to the PC platform.

March 20th, 2004, 10:42 AM	#19
Akin Vincent Tourist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vienna,Austria Posts: 4	Hmmm,i am yet to see a mac based NLE with the capability of capturing uncompressed 4:4:4 RGB.I have looked but they all seem to be PC based or on other platforms including even linux(Smoke SD). Mac based NLEs can process internally in that format but capture?A big question mark there.