For Newbies: A Brief Bit of Advice at DVinfo.net

Jim Lafferty · February 17th, 2004, 11:09 AM

I put this up the other day, and had I known these things way back when I started building PC's and working in various NLE's, they would've saved me some considerable trouble:

Tips for a rock-solid editing environment.

- jim

Edward Troxel · February 17th, 2004, 11:34 AM

What??? No DVInfo listed under NLE Forums???

Chris Hurd · February 17th, 2004, 12:41 PM

We're the Dark Horse of DV message boards.

Jim Lafferty · February 17th, 2004, 12:44 PM

Gee, thanks for making me feel like a schmuck, Ed :/

Y'know, you do something nice for people, and whadya get?

- jim

Edward Troxel · February 17th, 2004, 01:04 PM

Ah... just a small correction and you'll be back in good graces.

Otherwise, good compilation. That's pretty much how I handle my NLE's.

Rob Lohman · February 18th, 2004, 05:12 PM

Not all the advise is "that" good on the page. They suggest to
use a minimum of 1 GB of ram. That's a bit high for a minimum
requirement in my opinion. If I was short on cash I'd rather
spent the difference between 512 & 1024 MB on more harddisk
space for example

Jim Lafferty · February 18th, 2004, 06:02 PM

Rob:

Who's "they"?

I wrote it. If you've got criticisms, they're welcome, but address them to me, here or through email.

That said, I didn't write this out as a comprehensive be-all-end-all, and as you note, these are "suggestions," which means anything written is open to some subjective interpretation. I'd trust that someone who's tight on money would be able to make spending decisions for themselves. The rules, as written, have served me well, and I expect they'd do the same for others.

I'm curious, though -- what else about the advice written isn't all "that" good? Feel free to answer here or put up your own page of suggestions...

- jim

Robert Knecht Schmidt · February 18th, 2004, 06:11 PM

I don't really see any benefit to defragging any more.

My systems are kept for months at a time, and I haven't defragged any of them in over two years without perceptible decrease in performance.

Rob Wilson · February 18th, 2004, 06:15 PM

Wheww, Jim, a little sensitive? I'd have to agree that unless you're building a top dog power system, 512 would usually be a fine starting point. Have to agree with you too though and add that spending a few extra bucks on GOOD quality fast RAM would save lots of headaches in the future.

Not so sure that "a 400w PS is sufficient" isn't a bit much too. While it doesn't hurt to have the extra capacity and it's really not that expensive to upgrade from 300, if you're not building a system for full time hard core editing with 6 drives and a dozen fans, 300 would probably be fine.

Maybe adding a line to the top of the list that defines the expected system capabilities and use would help folks to better understand where you're going with it.

Rob Lohman · February 18th, 2004, 06:18 PM

My appologies to you, Jim. I'm reading through thousand of posts
here each day and sometimes do not read it 100% accurately.
I thought you had posted a link to a site with tips. I did not
read it correctly that it was your page. So "they" must be "you"
in this case. Again, my appologies for that.

Actually the only gripe I have is with the memory. The rest is spot
on. Thank you for compiling such a list and good work!

The reason I'm "falling" over the memory is this:

" a gig is the minimum starting point "

Since this is targeted at a "newbie" he or she might think you
just need 1 GB of memory and below that it won't work. In my
opinion you state it way too harsh. I think most people are
actually in the 0.5 - 1 GB range, that's definitely not a minimum
starting point.

For example: I'm pretty sure Vegas will run on XP pretty good
with 256 mb (not that I'd recommend that) where other applications
would not. So it also depends on what application(s) you are
using. Now if you would say:

" get at least 512 MB "

that would be better in my opinion. How many people actually
use 1 GB with just video work? Ofcourse RAM previews are nice,
but how many actually use the full 1 GB. Most people I've heard
are still at 512 MB.

That's why "minimum starting point" seems incorrect in my view.

I hope I better explained myself this time around. It was not
meant to "put you down" or anything.

Thanks again and keep up the good work!

Jim Lafferty · February 18th, 2004, 06:26 PM

Is this The Matrix? All the Robs are multplying :D

Well, I guess in general I'm a fan of certainty -- sure, you can "get by" with 512mb of RAM, a 300w PS (really?), but this kind of mentality too often bites ya in the rear in the long run.

The difference in cost between lower-end products and solid, mid-to-upper ranged components is often negligible (unless we're talking processors and monitors...) Why run the risk of shooting yourself in the foot?

WRT RAM requirments, I usually have a handful of apps open constantly during the editing process: Vegas 4, Sound Forge, Photoshop, Mozilla, and Media Player Classic or Quicktime Player. Throwing in the typical Windows overhead, I can see myself knocking on the 512mb ceiling quickly.

Maybe I've gotten too indulgent, but I do a lot of RAM previewing, and RAM helps out in other ways (at least in Vegas, though I imagine this is true of any NLE.)

It doesn't hurt that I've read others advising similarly -- Douglas Spotted Eagle would write the same thing, I'd bet...

- jim

Jim Lafferty · February 18th, 2004, 06:29 PM

Rob L:

Thanks for your response -- I saw it after posting my latest. Maybe you're right -- the wording could be changed.

- jim

Rob Lohman · February 18th, 2004, 06:47 PM

The point is that a lot of people don't tend to have that many
things open and running in my view (I could be very wrong).
Especially a newbie for which this is targeted. If I wanted to do
serious business I'd probably get 1 GB of RAM as well. But for
a newbie?

I do professional programming and easily hit the 512 MB barrier
with that. No problem. But then I'm running at least 5 programs
with all kinds of server processes running for example.

It's more like: get at least 512 MB. If you plan to do lots of RAM
previewing or use lots of applications simultaniously get 1 GB...

something like that?

Glenn Chan · February 18th, 2004, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Have to agree with you too though and add that spending a few extra bucks on GOOD quality fast RAM would save lots of headaches in the future.

Fast RAM doesn't really help much, I'd just get normal RAM. Enhanced latency RAM like Mushkin Level II PC3500 wouldn't make any difference for Vegas, and RAM above PC3200 (i.e. PC4000, 4200, 4400) would only make a few percent difference when you're overclocking.

Jim Lafferty · February 18th, 2004, 07:28 PM

Yes, but speed isn't the only consideration -- stability is my main concern. Also, as with the Tyan line of dual processor boards, sometimes you've got no choice but to buy registered, ECC RAM.

Otherwise, I think the phrase "that much" is debatable -- more for some than others.

- jim

February 17th, 2004, 11:09 AM	#1
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	For Newbies: A Brief Bit of Advice I put this up the other day, and had I known these things way back when I started building PC's and working in various NLE's, they would've saved me some considerable trouble: Tips for a rock-solid editing environment. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 17th, 2004, 12:41 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	We're the Dark Horse of DV message boards. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 17th, 2004, 12:44 PM	#4
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Gee, thanks for making me feel like a schmuck, Ed :/ Y'know, you do something nice for people, and whadya get? - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 18th, 2004, 05:12 PM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Not all the advise is "that" good on the page. They suggest to use a minimum of 1 GB of ram. That's a bit high for a minimum requirement in my opinion. If I was short on cash I'd rather spent the difference between 512 & 1024 MB on more harddisk space for example __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 18th, 2004, 06:02 PM	#7
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Rob: Who's "they"? I wrote it. If you've got criticisms, they're welcome, but address them to me, here or through email. That said, I didn't write this out as a comprehensive be-all-end-all, and as you note, these are "suggestions," which means anything written is open to some subjective interpretation. I'd trust that someone who's tight on money would be able to make spending decisions for themselves. The rules, as written, have served me well, and I expect they'd do the same for others. I'm curious, though -- what else about the advice written isn't all "that" good? Feel free to answer here or put up your own page of suggestions... - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 17th, 2004, 11:34 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	What??? No DVInfo listed under NLE Forums???

February 17th, 2004, 01:04 PM	#5
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Ah... just a small correction and you'll be back in good graces. Otherwise, good compilation. That's pretty much how I handle my NLE's.

February 18th, 2004, 06:11 PM	#8
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	I don't really see any benefit to defragging any more. My systems are kept for months at a time, and I haven't defragged any of them in over two years without perceptible decrease in performance. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 18th, 2004, 06:15 PM	#9
Rob Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 473	Wheww, Jim, a little sensitive? I'd have to agree that unless you're building a top dog power system, 512 would usually be a fine starting point. Have to agree with you too though and add that spending a few extra bucks on GOOD quality fast RAM would save lots of headaches in the future. Not so sure that "a 400w PS is sufficient" isn't a bit much too. While it doesn't hurt to have the extra capacity and it's really not that expensive to upgrade from 300, if you're not building a system for full time hard core editing with 6 drives and a dozen fans, 300 would probably be fine. Maybe adding a line to the top of the list that defines the expected system capabilities and use would help folks to better understand where you're going with it.

February 18th, 2004, 06:18 PM	#10
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	My appologies to you, Jim. I'm reading through thousand of posts here each day and sometimes do not read it 100% accurately. I thought you had posted a link to a site with tips. I did not read it correctly that it was your page. So "they" must be "you" in this case. Again, my appologies for that. Actually the only gripe I have is with the memory. The rest is spot on. Thank you for compiling such a list and good work! The reason I'm "falling" over the memory is this: " a gig is the minimum starting point " Since this is targeted at a "newbie" he or she might think you just need 1 GB of memory and below that it won't work. In my opinion you state it way too harsh. I think most people are actually in the 0.5 - 1 GB range, that's definitely not a minimum starting point. For example: I'm pretty sure Vegas will run on XP pretty good with 256 mb (not that I'd recommend that) where other applications would not. So it also depends on what application(s) you are using. Now if you would say: " get at least 512 MB " that would be better in my opinion. How many people actually use 1 GB with just video work? Ofcourse RAM previews are nice, but how many actually use the full 1 GB. Most people I've heard are still at 512 MB. That's why "minimum starting point" seems incorrect in my view. I hope I better explained myself this time around. It was not meant to "put you down" or anything. Thanks again and keep up the good work! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 18th, 2004, 06:26 PM	#11
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Is this The Matrix? All the Robs are multplying :D Well, I guess in general I'm a fan of certainty -- sure, you can "get by" with 512mb of RAM, a 300w PS (really?), but this kind of mentality too often bites ya in the rear in the long run. The difference in cost between lower-end products and solid, mid-to-upper ranged components is often negligible (unless we're talking processors and monitors...) Why run the risk of shooting yourself in the foot? WRT RAM requirments, I usually have a handful of apps open constantly during the editing process: Vegas 4, Sound Forge, Photoshop, Mozilla, and Media Player Classic or Quicktime Player. Throwing in the typical Windows overhead, I can see myself knocking on the 512mb ceiling quickly. Maybe I've gotten too indulgent, but I do a lot of RAM previewing, and RAM helps out in other ways (at least in Vegas, though I imagine this is true of any NLE.) It doesn't hurt that I've read others advising similarly -- Douglas Spotted Eagle would write the same thing, I'd bet... - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 18th, 2004, 06:29 PM	#12
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Rob L: Thanks for your response -- I saw it after posting my latest. Maybe you're right -- the wording could be changed. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 18th, 2004, 06:47 PM	#13
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	The point is that a lot of people don't tend to have that many things open and running in my view (I could be very wrong). Especially a newbie for which this is targeted. If I wanted to do serious business I'd probably get 1 GB of RAM as well. But for a newbie? I do professional programming and easily hit the 512 MB barrier with that. No problem. But then I'm running at least 5 programs with all kinds of server processes running for example. It's more like: get at least 512 MB. If you plan to do lots of RAM previewing or use lots of applications simultaniously get 1 GB... something like that? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 18th, 2004, 07:28 PM	#15
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Yes, but speed isn't the only consideration -- stability is my main concern. Also, as with the Tyan line of dual processor boards, sometimes you've got no choice but to buy registered, ECC RAM. Otherwise, I think the phrase "that much" is debatable -- more for some than others. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G