Editing Program similar to Premiere - FCP??

Tim Frank · February 18th, 2004, 04:01 PM

Okay, Thanks Glenn. That will certainly affect our decision now.

I know that you aren't "supposed to" use most software on multiple computers...but the fact that I'm buying a license for it is enough for me. PRemiere doesn't have any type of "Activation" except for their media encoder and so far I've been able to activate my "borrowed" version (not borrowed from a friend). Its Avid's protection that will probably keep me from buying it.

Donie Kelly · February 18th, 2004, 07:26 PM

Hi guys

Just to add my 2c, I tried edition but the thing got really unstable on me during the final editing and I don't trust it anymore but it was the first time I used it and maybe I was using it wrong. Didn't like large timelines.

I'm currently using Edition Pro and I like it. Handles lots of video nicely but I hate having to wait for the rendering. I know I should get a bit of hardware for this but I can't justify it for the amount of work I do which is non commerical. Edition was king for rendering and I liked it for that.

Tried the trial of Vegas and I didn't like the user interface so I gave up on it pretty quick. So I can't really say anything good or bad for it as I rekon it's good but just not for me. I might use it on and off for some of it's filters as go beyond whats' availalbe in Premier.

As far as it goes, I reckon use what comes natural. The best NLE can't make good videos, only you can.

Donie

Michael Dontigney · February 18th, 2004, 07:50 PM

Try Edius 2.0
http://www.canopus.com/us/products/EDIUS2/pm_EDIUS2.asp

Tim Frank · February 19th, 2004, 11:23 AM

I downloaded Canopus last night and....I REALLY like it. Even more than Premiere!! A Few questions though:

Is the Hardware encoder card required? Or what does it actually benifit for you if its not required? Is it just for like rendering or does it actually render the files as you work on it? Like is it something I would benefit from for paying the extra $100 to buy it in a bundle?

Michael Dontigney · February 19th, 2004, 11:29 AM

I'm glad you like it!
No.. the hardware card is not required. Edius 2.0 works with and off the shelf OHCI DV capture device.
It *will* get better performance using Canopus hardware but as computers get faster that margin narrows.

Edius doesn't "background" render or give you a "preview" of the video. Edius plays everything out in RT over firewire.

A good bundle would be Edius 2.0 and the ADVCio card which is an OHCI card with analog out so you don't need to go through your camera to send the video to an external monitor.

Plus it'll work with all the other NLEs like Vegas, and Premiere.

Donie Kelly · February 19th, 2004, 11:41 AM

I downloaded it too and fell in love with it.

One problem I didn't like though and forgive me if I have this wrong but if you have multiple video layers and they are stacked on top of each other, how do you pick them all up with the mouse and move them as a group? I do this all the time because I'm always making a mess and need to drag stuff around to sort it out.

If it can do that it's a super package. The speed is incredibel. No rendering time at all and as smooth as silk. Maybe it needs to do some final rendering before output but it certanily didn't look like it needed to. I need to spend a little more time on it.

The real time effects are so easy to use. I was able to do stuff really quickly. Nice and intutive.

I'm very tempted to replace Premier with it. But I think I will play around a bit more to see if I can find soemthing that would stop me...

Regards
Donie

Michael Dontigney · February 19th, 2004, 12:43 PM

That is one of the things it's lacking. A multiple select/move tool. You can move groups using CTRL+ALT then drag.
Check the helpfile for more keyboard shortcuts there are a ton.
CTRL+ Mousewheel zooms the timeline
the mousewheel can be used to adjust nearly every value in every window. Like speed adjustment, color correction just scroll the wheel.

You can also drag a box around multiple filters and make them a single preset by dragging them over to the effects palette.

Then you can blend to the group with the "blend filters" filter.

It's fun and fast!

Donie Kelly · February 19th, 2004, 12:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Dontigney :

You can also drag a box around multiple filters and make them a single preset by dragging them over to the effects palette.

Then you can blend to the group with the "blend filters" filter.
-->>>

That's neat. ;)

I'm usign the demo at the moment so I don't have a handy manual. Does the full verison come with a decent manual?

Where is the cheapest place to buy online? I can use this along with Premier. What would be the easiest way to integrate with a premier workflow? Juat import the AVI?

Thanks
Donie

Michael Dontigney · February 19th, 2004, 01:13 PM

The manual isn't too bad (it's not great either) and you also get a tutorial DVD along with a tutorial guide.

I'll also be releasing my tutorial DVD (I made and sold a ton of he Edius 1.5 two DVD tutorial set) but it mostly covers the Inscriber Title Motion included with 2.0 and ProCoder Express.
It'll also have many other tricks and tips.

The cheapest way fright now is to go to http://www.froogle.com and do a search for "Canopus Edius" you can get the 1.X version which entitles you to a FREE upgrade to 2.0. The 1.X can be found for as little as $260 which is a heck of a deal considering you get Inscriber TM (which blows away the Adobe titler in AP 6.5 and Pro) and ProCoder Express for Edius which is also standalone.

Donie Kelly · February 19th, 2004, 01:33 PM

Hi Michael

I live in Ireland so I must first wonder if the free upgrade is availalble here?

What is Inscriber TM? I don't see it on Canopus's website?

Thanks
Donie

Michael Dontigney · February 19th, 2004, 01:41 PM

I'm not sure.. You could check the Canopus website for a dealer near you and give them a call. http://www.canopus.com

Inscriber is one of the best CG title tools on the market. Adobe licensed their technology to create the titler in Premiere Pro (and 6.5) but they left off many of the really cool features like animations and logo import/editing.
For more information about Inscriber and a downloadable manual for TM:
http://www.inscriber.com/products/NL...ion/index.html

David Mintzer · February 19th, 2004, 10:49 PM

I have a general problem with not following licensing agreements when it comes to software installation. I feel that it hurts developers, consumers and ultimately doesn't give our children a very good example to follow. People might find the agreements unfair, and if they do so there are options. Unfortunately, many people dont avail themselves of those options.

Tim Frank · February 19th, 2004, 10:59 PM

Well the company I am with is making the decisions but the general idea was to experiment with our own home computers with video editing programs...pick one you liked the best. Then they will purchase one copy of that and start using it with the company. If all turns out okay I am 100% positive we will get full licensed for it, however it is a smart business decision to not fully invest into a product before you are sure its doing what you want and more importantly need it to do.

There are some programs however that allow you to do more than one installation of software.

For instance, I feel it is unfair for me to pay $500-$600 for OfficeXP when I can only use it on one comptuer. I own a desktop and laptop...I can only use one at a time so why should I have to have different licenses for each one if I can only use one at a time. Thats when I think its unfair.

Michael Dontigney · February 19th, 2004, 11:01 PM

I posted this but Chris booted it with another I guess.. hehe.

Edius 2.0 comes with two licenses. One for your desktop PC and one for a Laptop.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Tim Frank · February 19th, 2004, 11:18 PM

Ah, well that makes a lot of sense! Yeah I noticed a e-mail saying I had a reply but I didn't see one anywhere. Oh well. Thanks for all the help guys!

February 18th, 2004, 07:26 PM	#17
Donie Kelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 159	Premier, Vegas and Edition Hi guys Just to add my 2c, I tried edition but the thing got really unstable on me during the final editing and I don't trust it anymore but it was the first time I used it and maybe I was using it wrong. Didn't like large timelines. I'm currently using Edition Pro and I like it. Handles lots of video nicely but I hate having to wait for the rendering. I know I should get a bit of hardware for this but I can't justify it for the amount of work I do which is non commerical. Edition was king for rendering and I liked it for that. Tried the trial of Vegas and I didn't like the user interface so I gave up on it pretty quick. So I can't really say anything good or bad for it as I rekon it's good but just not for me. I might use it on and off for some of it's filters as go beyond whats' availalbe in Premier. As far as it goes, I reckon use what comes natural. The best NLE can't make good videos, only you can. Donie

February 19th, 2004, 11:41 AM	#21
Donie Kelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 159	Canopus I downloaded it too and fell in love with it. One problem I didn't like though and forgive me if I have this wrong but if you have multiple video layers and they are stacked on top of each other, how do you pick them all up with the mouse and move them as a group? I do this all the time because I'm always making a mess and need to drag stuff around to sort it out. If it can do that it's a super package. The speed is incredibel. No rendering time at all and as smooth as silk. Maybe it needs to do some final rendering before output but it certanily didn't look like it needed to. I need to spend a little more time on it. The real time effects are so easy to use. I was able to do stuff really quickly. Nice and intutive. I'm very tempted to replace Premier with it. But I think I will play around a bit more to see if I can find soemthing that would stop me... Regards Donie

February 18th, 2004, 04:01 PM	#16
Tim Frank Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: TN Posts: 166	Okay, Thanks Glenn. That will certainly affect our decision now. I know that you aren't "supposed to" use most software on multiple computers...but the fact that I'm buying a license for it is enough for me. PRemiere doesn't have any type of "Activation" except for their media encoder and so far I've been able to activate my "borrowed" version (not borrowed from a friend). Its Avid's protection that will probably keep me from buying it.

February 18th, 2004, 07:50 PM	#18
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	Try Edius 2.0 http://www.canopus.com/us/products/EDIUS2/pm_EDIUS2.asp

February 19th, 2004, 11:23 AM	#19
Tim Frank Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: TN Posts: 166	I downloaded Canopus last night and....I REALLY like it. Even more than Premiere!! A Few questions though: Is the Hardware encoder card required? Or what does it actually benifit for you if its not required? Is it just for like rendering or does it actually render the files as you work on it? Like is it something I would benefit from for paying the extra $100 to buy it in a bundle?

February 19th, 2004, 11:29 AM	#20
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	I'm glad you like it! No.. the hardware card is not required. Edius 2.0 works with and off the shelf OHCI DV capture device. It will get better performance using Canopus hardware but as computers get faster that margin narrows. Edius doesn't "background" render or give you a "preview" of the video. Edius plays everything out in RT over firewire. A good bundle would be Edius 2.0 and the ADVCio card which is an OHCI card with analog out so you don't need to go through your camera to send the video to an external monitor. Plus it'll work with all the other NLEs like Vegas, and Premiere.

February 19th, 2004, 12:43 PM	#22
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	That is one of the things it's lacking. A multiple select/move tool. You can move groups using CTRL+ALT then drag. Check the helpfile for more keyboard shortcuts there are a ton. CTRL+ Mousewheel zooms the timeline the mousewheel can be used to adjust nearly every value in every window. Like speed adjustment, color correction just scroll the wheel. You can also drag a box around multiple filters and make them a single preset by dragging them over to the effects palette. Then you can blend to the group with the "blend filters" filter. It's fun and fast!

February 19th, 2004, 12:56 PM	#23
Donie Kelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 159	<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Dontigney : You can also drag a box around multiple filters and make them a single preset by dragging them over to the effects palette. Then you can blend to the group with the "blend filters" filter. -->>> That's neat. ;) I'm usign the demo at the moment so I don't have a handy manual. Does the full verison come with a decent manual? Where is the cheapest place to buy online? I can use this along with Premier. What would be the easiest way to integrate with a premier workflow? Juat import the AVI? Thanks Donie

February 19th, 2004, 01:13 PM	#24
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	The manual isn't too bad (it's not great either) and you also get a tutorial DVD along with a tutorial guide. I'll also be releasing my tutorial DVD (I made and sold a ton of he Edius 1.5 two DVD tutorial set) but it mostly covers the Inscriber Title Motion included with 2.0 and ProCoder Express. It'll also have many other tricks and tips. The cheapest way fright now is to go to http://www.froogle.com and do a search for "Canopus Edius" you can get the 1.X version which entitles you to a FREE upgrade to 2.0. The 1.X can be found for as little as $260 which is a heck of a deal considering you get Inscriber TM (which blows away the Adobe titler in AP 6.5 and Pro) and ProCoder Express for Edius which is also standalone.

February 19th, 2004, 01:33 PM	#25
Donie Kelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 159	Hi Michael I live in Ireland so I must first wonder if the free upgrade is availalble here? What is Inscriber TM? I don't see it on Canopus's website? Thanks Donie

February 19th, 2004, 01:41 PM	#26
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	I'm not sure.. You could check the Canopus website for a dealer near you and give them a call. http://www.canopus.com Inscriber is one of the best CG title tools on the market. Adobe licensed their technology to create the titler in Premiere Pro (and 6.5) but they left off many of the really cool features like animations and logo import/editing. For more information about Inscriber and a downloadable manual for TM: http://www.inscriber.com/products/NL...ion/index.html

February 19th, 2004, 10:49 PM	#27
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	I have a general problem with not following licensing agreements when it comes to software installation. I feel that it hurts developers, consumers and ultimately doesn't give our children a very good example to follow. People might find the agreements unfair, and if they do so there are options. Unfortunately, many people dont avail themselves of those options.

February 19th, 2004, 10:59 PM	#28
Tim Frank Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: TN Posts: 166	Well the company I am with is making the decisions but the general idea was to experiment with our own home computers with video editing programs...pick one you liked the best. Then they will purchase one copy of that and start using it with the company. If all turns out okay I am 100% positive we will get full licensed for it, however it is a smart business decision to not fully invest into a product before you are sure its doing what you want and more importantly need it to do. There are some programs however that allow you to do more than one installation of software. For instance, I feel it is unfair for me to pay $500-$600 for OfficeXP when I can only use it on one comptuer. I own a desktop and laptop...I can only use one at a time so why should I have to have different licenses for each one if I can only use one at a time. Thats when I think its unfair.

February 19th, 2004, 11:01 PM	#29
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	I posted this but Chris booted it with another I guess.. hehe. Edius 2.0 comes with two licenses. One for your desktop PC and one for a Laptop. Sounds reasonable to me.

February 19th, 2004, 11:18 PM	#30
Tim Frank Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: TN Posts: 166	Ah, well that makes a lot of sense! Yeah I noticed a e-mail saying I had a reply but I didn't see one anywhere. Oh well. Thanks for all the help guys!