DV Editing Programs at DVinfo.net

Cameron Stainton · January 22nd, 2004, 11:16 PM

Anyone have an opinion on Editors for the PC?
I'm looking for information from those that have used the various ones available. The good, the bad, and the Ugly....
Thanks
Cam

Martin Garrison · January 22nd, 2004, 11:37 PM

That's a monster of a topic. But I'll give you my opinion. (comparisons to bodily oriface applies)

If your doing long form kind of stuff, and need to organize vast amounts of media, or if you need to interface with other shops or producers and references to multiple time codes are an issue Avid Express DV or Pro is the way to go. Also a good choice if you want to offline and then online uncompressed.

If it's just your work in to out, and the girth of most of your projects is managable then Vegas kicks butt.

I tried pinnacles Edition a version or two ago, and nothing really stood out.

I've played with the new Premiere and it's a very nice program. Almost as powerful as Vegas and almost as well organized as Avid. Plus there will probably be some cool hardware for Premiere Pro, if you wanted to upgrade in the future.

For me, I use Avid at work and Vegas at home. There are times, when I wish I had Vegas at work, and times when I consider buying Avid for home.

Cameron Stainton · January 22nd, 2004, 11:45 PM

Thanks for the info. I seem to be hearing good things about the Vegas+DVD software. I'm just making simple documentaries and short films to be burned to DVD...nothing to elaborate.

Martin Garrison · January 22nd, 2004, 11:51 PM

One thing you may consider is Adobe's Video Collection. It comes with After Effects, Photoshop, Audition Premiere and Encore. So you'd have an animation tool, and audio tool an editor and a good DVD software.

Cameron Stainton · January 23rd, 2004, 09:53 PM

Just ordered Vegas+DVD
SPent some time with the demo and really like it.
Thanks again for the input
CS

Edward Troxel · January 23rd, 2004, 10:08 PM

Look over the "What's happening in Vegas" forum for info and questions directly related to Vegas.

Marcia Janine Galles · January 26th, 2004, 03:57 PM

Martin, your "Avid at work and Vegas at home" comment really got my attention. I used to cut on Avids professionally, and have been looking around at what to cut my doc on (that I'm shooting this next summer) at home. Thing is, I was all set to go Avid Express Pro for the flexibility of being able to hand it off to another editor/pro bay if I had to (dependent on funding coming through, which hasn't as yet), but I've been really impressed with the Vegas Demo and frustrated time and again with the Avid Free Demo. So I guess I'm curious about your take on a couple things...

IF funding comes through, I'd like to have someone else professionally color correct whether I edit it or not, and around here anyway, that generally means a Symphony. Obviously Express Pro makes that an easy transition. If I were to cut it on Vegas, is there any way to get it into a Symphony bay short of digitizing in the cuts rebuilt from a Vegas EDL? (What a pain...)

IF funding comes through it'll be transfered to film. Vegas vs. Avid makes no difference in that regard, does it?

Whether or not funding comes through there is going to be a ridiculous amount of footage. If funding comes through there will be 2-3 cameras going, and it's going to accumulate exponentially I suspect. Why do you prefer Avid over Vegas with regard to organization? Aren't there bins and such you can organize and nest with Vegas? (I hadn't thought of that when I've played with the demo, to check that out.)

And lastly, IF funding comes through I suspect I'm going to need to lay off DVD's at various stages for whoever is footing the bill, and Vegas would obviously be very easy in that regard. With Express Pro do you know how? On the Avid (Free) demo the only option is to export as a Quicktime movie.

And lastly, if I do go with Vegas over Express Pro, one Avid editor to another, are there any books you recommend to ease the Avid/Vegas transition? (That's another thing in Avid's corner... I have a zillion books, manuals, files, etc. not to mention sheer familiarity with how Expresses "big brothers" do things, though it's been a couple years since I've been in a pro bay.)

I know this is a lot, but any feedback at all would be greatly appreciated.
Marcia

Martin Garrison · January 26th, 2004, 05:11 PM

The bins just don't work as automagically. The connection between the capture tool and the editing softare is not as intimate on Vegas. So you can set up bins on your capture log, which works great. But then when you get into editing you have to reorganize, and set up new bins.

There is a script available on the web that will create an Avid style EDL from a Vegas timeline, but I don't know what it keeps and what it doesn't.

You also can't have multiple timelines in one project. But you can drag one project into another, so you can break a project up in that way.

There are some serious strengths with Vegas. The color correction and DVE blow Avids away. Unlimited number of effects are available for each track and there is no "nesting" necessary. The title tool is also accomplished, there are many projects that I can avoid time in photoshop/after effects, by using the tools built into Vegas. I am also a big fan of realtime audio plug-ins and directx plugins are handy.

Most likely, your going to take a tape to the transfer house, for film transfer and it wouldn't matter.

Express pro doesn't directly burn DVDs. But if you authoring program supports Quicktime, then you can use avid's QT reference files, so there is no export necessary.

I don't know of any books, but if you've used any multitrack audio programs, then Vegas will be super intuitive. If not I think there are tutorials available on the web.

Good Luck.

Edward Troxel · January 26th, 2004, 06:10 PM

DSE has a book on Vegas (Vegas 4 Editing Workshop) and a set of DVDs by that same name. Gary Kleiner has a set of DVDs at http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com. I have a series of newsletters at http://www.jetdv.com/tts. There are also several other sites with tutorials, plugins, and sample project files available.

January 22nd, 2004, 11:16 PM	#1
Cameron Stainton New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Carbondale, CO Posts: 22	DV Editing Programs Anyone have an opinion on Editors for the PC? I'm looking for information from those that have used the various ones available. The good, the bad, and the Ugly.... Thanks Cam

January 22nd, 2004, 11:37 PM	#2
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	That's a monster of a topic. But I'll give you my opinion. (comparisons to bodily oriface applies) If your doing long form kind of stuff, and need to organize vast amounts of media, or if you need to interface with other shops or producers and references to multiple time codes are an issue Avid Express DV or Pro is the way to go. Also a good choice if you want to offline and then online uncompressed. If it's just your work in to out, and the girth of most of your projects is managable then Vegas kicks butt. I tried pinnacles Edition a version or two ago, and nothing really stood out. I've played with the new Premiere and it's a very nice program. Almost as powerful as Vegas and almost as well organized as Avid. Plus there will probably be some cool hardware for Premiere Pro, if you wanted to upgrade in the future. For me, I use Avid at work and Vegas at home. There are times, when I wish I had Vegas at work, and times when I consider buying Avid for home.

January 22nd, 2004, 11:45 PM	#3
Cameron Stainton New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Carbondale, CO Posts: 22	Thanks for the info. I seem to be hearing good things about the Vegas+DVD software. I'm just making simple documentaries and short films to be burned to DVD...nothing to elaborate.

January 22nd, 2004, 11:51 PM	#4
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	One thing you may consider is Adobe's Video Collection. It comes with After Effects, Photoshop, Audition Premiere and Encore. So you'd have an animation tool, and audio tool an editor and a good DVD software.

January 23rd, 2004, 09:53 PM	#5
Cameron Stainton New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Carbondale, CO Posts: 22	Just ordered Vegas+DVD SPent some time with the demo and really like it. Thanks again for the input CS

January 23rd, 2004, 10:08 PM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Look over the "What's happening in Vegas" forum for info and questions directly related to Vegas.

January 26th, 2004, 03:57 PM	#7
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Martin, your "Avid at work and Vegas at home" comment really got my attention. I used to cut on Avids professionally, and have been looking around at what to cut my doc on (that I'm shooting this next summer) at home. Thing is, I was all set to go Avid Express Pro for the flexibility of being able to hand it off to another editor/pro bay if I had to (dependent on funding coming through, which hasn't as yet), but I've been really impressed with the Vegas Demo and frustrated time and again with the Avid Free Demo. So I guess I'm curious about your take on a couple things... IF funding comes through, I'd like to have someone else professionally color correct whether I edit it or not, and around here anyway, that generally means a Symphony. Obviously Express Pro makes that an easy transition. If I were to cut it on Vegas, is there any way to get it into a Symphony bay short of digitizing in the cuts rebuilt from a Vegas EDL? (What a pain...) IF funding comes through it'll be transfered to film. Vegas vs. Avid makes no difference in that regard, does it? Whether or not funding comes through there is going to be a ridiculous amount of footage. If funding comes through there will be 2-3 cameras going, and it's going to accumulate exponentially I suspect. Why do you prefer Avid over Vegas with regard to organization? Aren't there bins and such you can organize and nest with Vegas? (I hadn't thought of that when I've played with the demo, to check that out.) And lastly, IF funding comes through I suspect I'm going to need to lay off DVD's at various stages for whoever is footing the bill, and Vegas would obviously be very easy in that regard. With Express Pro do you know how? On the Avid (Free) demo the only option is to export as a Quicktime movie. And lastly, if I do go with Vegas over Express Pro, one Avid editor to another, are there any books you recommend to ease the Avid/Vegas transition? (That's another thing in Avid's corner... I have a zillion books, manuals, files, etc. not to mention sheer familiarity with how Expresses "big brothers" do things, though it's been a couple years since I've been in a pro bay.) I know this is a lot, but any feedback at all would be greatly appreciated. Marcia

January 26th, 2004, 05:11 PM	#8
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	The bins just don't work as automagically. The connection between the capture tool and the editing softare is not as intimate on Vegas. So you can set up bins on your capture log, which works great. But then when you get into editing you have to reorganize, and set up new bins. There is a script available on the web that will create an Avid style EDL from a Vegas timeline, but I don't know what it keeps and what it doesn't. You also can't have multiple timelines in one project. But you can drag one project into another, so you can break a project up in that way. There are some serious strengths with Vegas. The color correction and DVE blow Avids away. Unlimited number of effects are available for each track and there is no "nesting" necessary. The title tool is also accomplished, there are many projects that I can avoid time in photoshop/after effects, by using the tools built into Vegas. I am also a big fan of realtime audio plug-ins and directx plugins are handy. Most likely, your going to take a tape to the transfer house, for film transfer and it wouldn't matter. Express pro doesn't directly burn DVDs. But if you authoring program supports Quicktime, then you can use avid's QT reference files, so there is no export necessary. I don't know of any books, but if you've used any multitrack audio programs, then Vegas will be super intuitive. If not I think there are tutorials available on the web. Good Luck.

January 26th, 2004, 06:10 PM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	DSE has a book on Vegas (Vegas 4 Editing Workshop) and a set of DVDs by that same name. Gary Kleiner has a set of DVDs at http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com. I have a series of newsletters at http://www.jetdv.com/tts. There are also several other sites with tutorials, plugins, and sample project files available.