difference between Avid and Dvstorm2 at DVinfo.net

Manuel Albarracin · January 22nd, 2004, 05:05 PM

I want to upgrade my current system dual Xeon, DvStorm2 to Avid Pro or the other flavors of Avid. Is this a good step forward. What will I gain out of this? What is the difference between the Avid and the DVstorm2.

Rob Lohman · January 25th, 2004, 08:35 AM

That's a broad question. Especially since you are not mentioning
the AVID product you want to get (Pro isn't an Avid version
according to their list). There will be tons of differences,
especially in how you work with things.

I'm wondering why you are asking this question. You say you
want to upgrade to AVID, but apparently you don't know what
the differences are between that and what you are using now.
Why are you upgrading to AVID then? Just because the "industry"
is using?

The best comparison you can do is yourself by checking out both
products thoroughly on the company's website, reviews on the
internet (do a google search) and trying the product out
yourself.

I do believe AVID has demo's available. And if it doesn't, there
is an actual FREE version of AVID [with limited options, ofcourse]
which you can try out to get a feel for their products.

Edward Troxel · January 25th, 2004, 12:48 PM

Avid is SOFTWARE

DVStorm2 is HARDWARE

Rob Lohman · January 25th, 2004, 02:09 PM

I assumed they also bundled an NLE that he is using now, but
still good point Edward!

Manuel Albarracin · January 25th, 2004, 10:55 PM

First thanks for the response...
I am referring to the Avid product Avid Express Pro I believe it is a software application then it works in conjunction with the Mojo\DNA.
Right now I am using Adobe Premiere with DVstorm ( in certain occasions the StormEdit). My question is, am I moving up ...? or down ...? If I start using xpress pro and eventually with more savings (mula) probably buy the Mojo in the future.
Reasons... gain more knowledge, versatility or probably use a better editing software.
So I guess I should rephrase my question what is a better editing tool the premiere with dvstorm or the avid express pro with mojo

Mike Rehmus · January 26th, 2004, 01:05 AM

In either case, the quality of the results will be dictated by your abilities, not either product.

If you are training yourself to go out into industry and get an editing job, then the AVID may be a better selection.

I personally think you will not find a whole lot of difference if you are running the latest versions of the Canopus products and Premiere.

You may also find yourself really missing real-time editing.

If you are looking to improve your editing tools, you should also take a look at Edius. It is fast and quite capable (although not as capable overall as AVID I think (but don't know)) and version 2.0 will be out next Wednesday so it is rumored.

As far as quality. As long as you are considering only DV25, you cannot beat the Canopus quality. AVID could certainly be the equivalent.

For HD and MPEG work, I don't know what the lower cost versions of AVID will allow. Edius 2.0 will support MPEG and HD and version 1.5 already supports uncompressed video.

I'd guess that you need a few months of heavy comparison work including the downloading of demo software before you can make an informed opinion.

Manuel Albarracin · January 26th, 2004, 12:00 PM

Your response make sense Mike. Yet like an old hammer I have been using premiere since the last, well I guess 10 years now.

Now I want to get, perhaps a "power drill" to really improve my abilities and of course learn something along the way.

So to speak go mainstream... industry standard... go with the big boys.

And who knows someday my boss will fire me. At least I could probably get a job doing what really makes me happy.

Oh I forgot to mention I am doing all this as a hobby and in pursuit of knowledge and happiness. ("all out hobby" of course with the video gear I have been accumulating all these years)

The latest and the greatest... big boy's toys you know what I mean....

Richard Alvarez · January 26th, 2004, 12:41 PM

Download the Avid Xpress Free DV from the site, and get a feel for the interface. It's a very limited app, but the interface is the same as the high end AVIDS.

Christian Stormbom · January 26th, 2004, 03:59 PM

As a former user of Canopus Storm and Premiere (or rather I
still do use it from time to time - we have one "Storm"editing station in our Media workshop and sometimes I do some
teaching with it) but now an Avid Xpress pro user I think I have
a certain insight in the matter.
First point of course you can download the "Free Dv" from Avid
but I dont think it will make you much happier because like all
Avids you have to put quite a lot of effort into it and frankly
to get a real insight into the "Avid" way of editing would take so
much effort that if you did that you most likely continue to use
Avid anyway.
Personally I would not go back to Premiere not even the new
Premiere Pro (I have been playing a bit with it) for a couple of
reasons - the Avid has the best media handling of all NLEs.
It is fully adopted to handling long projects and to make the most
of a crises like clip list destroyed - the "Attic" system with
backup lists is very good , database can be remade if something
goes wrong. And how about this: you can even edit directly to the
timeline - your capture can be set with very high precision
and you can make it both as assembly and insert right to
the timeline and you can trim any clip (Avid has a super trim tool)
with the capture tool open but of course your clips are also
stored in whatever bin you like. You can use the JKL buttons on
your keyboard for three things A:viewing (back, forward ,with
different speeds- like Premiere THEN B:you can aslo use them for high speed trimming of your clips AND C: for play -stop -forward -backward on your DV(CAM) camera/deck! (and it works).
Want to make a crossfade starting 10 frames before a clip ends and ending 20 after the new clips starts - takes shorter time to do
than to write - and its on the frame every time.
Want to change audio level with -5 db. in the middle of a clip
in such a way that it fades down 5 db. in 50 frames (and I mean 50 frames not 48 or 51)- again takes longer to write than to do.
Do your customers (TV stations) use -14 db or perhaps -20 db
as audio ref. just set it as they want it again takes longer to write
than to do -first class audio meters included. Need to control a
Beta SP via RS 422 - can be done.
Best cutter money can buy - easy to use YES when you have learned to use it - easy to learn NO it is by a good margin the worst NLE to learn you can find. Educational material included
YES first class you can teach yourself with that.
Better picture quality with DV 25 than the Storm NO you wont gain
anything there and please notice that the Avids are quicktime
based (MOV or rather Avids own version OMF) not AVI and this
might be a problem when makeing DVDs etc. - however you
can make MPEG2s with the Sorensen that is included in the
package also use the Canopus Pro Coder but this is best done
not with normal files but rather with QT ref. files that are in real
life just pointers to your cliplist (and there are some problems with
the Xpress Pro and QT ref. files...)
Effects - less than the Storm/Premiere but all is there for normal use. Text tool - well can do normal things also roll and crawl -
I have seen better but about the same level as Premiere 6.5 and
Pro. Colour correction - second to none - its the same as in the big Avids. Waveform monitor and vectorscope included YES and showing correct levels YES.
So your dilemma is simply that when you really are able to
compare you have put so much effort into learning Avid that it
would be a waste of time to use anything else...
Christian

Mike Rehmus · January 26th, 2004, 07:50 PM

Another issue to consider is that AVID requires some very specific hardware unless they have changed things in the past year.

I say again, changing editing systems isn't going to make your work better unless your current system won't give you finished video.

My personal take, given that you are not planning to become an editor working for someone else is that you would be ahead to take the money you would spend on a new system and buy new studio equipment . . . DV deck, good NTSC monitor or a new camera or audio gear.

But that's just me.

Manuel Albarracin · January 27th, 2004, 02:57 AM

Thanks Christian, wow!!! now that is the answer I have been seeking. From someone who has taken the path that I plan to take. Your reply has been so enlightening.
Now I have to decide if I have enough guts for such an undertaking.

As for Mike he has his point too... But at this point I believe I have enough video equipment for what I need.

Charles King · January 27th, 2004, 03:55 AM

Wow Christian. You made me wanna jump up and go get Avid right now. Did I mention I am already on my way?! ;) Love that great review. I'm going to check it out now. Thanks

Manuel Albarracin · January 28th, 2004, 01:30 AM

By the way Christian how able the real time in Avid is it like the DVstorm and Premiere. Do I need to render to review the edits and the transitions.
Also can I capture video (mini dv format) probably using a firewire card.

January 22nd, 2004, 05:05 PM	#1
Manuel Albarracin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale Posts: 54	difference between Avid and Dvstorm2 I want to upgrade my current system dual Xeon, DvStorm2 to Avid Pro or the other flavors of Avid. Is this a good step forward. What will I gain out of this? What is the difference between the Avid and the DVstorm2.

January 25th, 2004, 08:35 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	That's a broad question. Especially since you are not mentioning the AVID product you want to get (Pro isn't an Avid version according to their list). There will be tons of differences, especially in how you work with things. I'm wondering why you are asking this question. You say you want to upgrade to AVID, but apparently you don't know what the differences are between that and what you are using now. Why are you upgrading to AVID then? Just because the "industry" is using? The best comparison you can do is yourself by checking out both products thoroughly on the company's website, reviews on the internet (do a google search) and trying the product out yourself. I do believe AVID has demo's available. And if it doesn't, there is an actual FREE version of AVID [with limited options, ofcourse] which you can try out to get a feel for their products. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 25th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I assumed they also bundled an NLE that he is using now, but still good point Edward! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 26th, 2004, 01:05 AM	#6
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	In either case, the quality of the results will be dictated by your abilities, not either product. If you are training yourself to go out into industry and get an editing job, then the AVID may be a better selection. I personally think you will not find a whole lot of difference if you are running the latest versions of the Canopus products and Premiere. You may also find yourself really missing real-time editing. If you are looking to improve your editing tools, you should also take a look at Edius. It is fast and quite capable (although not as capable overall as AVID I think (but don't know)) and version 2.0 will be out next Wednesday so it is rumored. As far as quality. As long as you are considering only DV25, you cannot beat the Canopus quality. AVID could certainly be the equivalent. For HD and MPEG work, I don't know what the lower cost versions of AVID will allow. Edius 2.0 will support MPEG and HD and version 1.5 already supports uncompressed video. I'd guess that you need a few months of heavy comparison work including the downloading of demo software before you can make an informed opinion. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

January 26th, 2004, 07:50 PM	#10
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Another issue to consider is that AVID requires some very specific hardware unless they have changed things in the past year. I say again, changing editing systems isn't going to make your work better unless your current system won't give you finished video. My personal take, given that you are not planning to become an editor working for someone else is that you would be ahead to take the money you would spend on a new system and buy new studio equipment . . . DV deck, good NTSC monitor or a new camera or audio gear. But that's just me. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

January 25th, 2004, 12:48 PM	#3
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Avid is SOFTWARE DVStorm2 is HARDWARE

January 25th, 2004, 10:55 PM	#5
Manuel Albarracin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale Posts: 54	First thanks for the response... I am referring to the Avid product Avid Express Pro I believe it is a software application then it works in conjunction with the Mojo\DNA. Right now I am using Adobe Premiere with DVstorm ( in certain occasions the StormEdit). My question is, am I moving up ...? or down ...? If I start using xpress pro and eventually with more savings (mula) probably buy the Mojo in the future. Reasons... gain more knowledge, versatility or probably use a better editing software. So I guess I should rephrase my question what is a better editing tool the premiere with dvstorm or the avid express pro with mojo

January 26th, 2004, 12:00 PM	#7
Manuel Albarracin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale Posts: 54	Your response make sense Mike. Yet like an old hammer I have been using premiere since the last, well I guess 10 years now. Now I want to get, perhaps a "power drill" to really improve my abilities and of course learn something along the way. So to speak go mainstream... industry standard... go with the big boys. And who knows someday my boss will fire me. At least I could probably get a job doing what really makes me happy. Oh I forgot to mention I am doing all this as a hobby and in pursuit of knowledge and happiness. ("all out hobby" of course with the video gear I have been accumulating all these years) The latest and the greatest... big boy's toys you know what I mean....

January 26th, 2004, 12:41 PM	#8
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Download the Avid Xpress Free DV from the site, and get a feel for the interface. It's a very limited app, but the interface is the same as the high end AVIDS.

January 26th, 2004, 03:59 PM	#9
Christian Stormbom New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mariehamn,the Aaland islands,Finland Posts: 14	As a former user of Canopus Storm and Premiere (or rather I still do use it from time to time - we have one "Storm"editing station in our Media workshop and sometimes I do some teaching with it) but now an Avid Xpress pro user I think I have a certain insight in the matter. First point of course you can download the "Free Dv" from Avid but I dont think it will make you much happier because like all Avids you have to put quite a lot of effort into it and frankly to get a real insight into the "Avid" way of editing would take so much effort that if you did that you most likely continue to use Avid anyway. Personally I would not go back to Premiere not even the new Premiere Pro (I have been playing a bit with it) for a couple of reasons - the Avid has the best media handling of all NLEs. It is fully adopted to handling long projects and to make the most of a crises like clip list destroyed - the "Attic" system with backup lists is very good , database can be remade if something goes wrong. And how about this: you can even edit directly to the timeline - your capture can be set with very high precision and you can make it both as assembly and insert right to the timeline and you can trim any clip (Avid has a super trim tool) with the capture tool open but of course your clips are also stored in whatever bin you like. You can use the JKL buttons on your keyboard for three things A:viewing (back, forward ,with different speeds- like Premiere THEN B:you can aslo use them for high speed trimming of your clips AND C: for play -stop -forward -backward on your DV(CAM) camera/deck! (and it works). Want to make a crossfade starting 10 frames before a clip ends and ending 20 after the new clips starts - takes shorter time to do than to write - and its on the frame every time. Want to change audio level with -5 db. in the middle of a clip in such a way that it fades down 5 db. in 50 frames (and I mean 50 frames not 48 or 51)- again takes longer to write than to do. Do your customers (TV stations) use -14 db or perhaps -20 db as audio ref. just set it as they want it again takes longer to write than to do -first class audio meters included. Need to control a Beta SP via RS 422 - can be done. Best cutter money can buy - easy to use YES when you have learned to use it - easy to learn NO it is by a good margin the worst NLE to learn you can find. Educational material included YES first class you can teach yourself with that. Better picture quality with DV 25 than the Storm NO you wont gain anything there and please notice that the Avids are quicktime based (MOV or rather Avids own version OMF) not AVI and this might be a problem when makeing DVDs etc. - however you can make MPEG2s with the Sorensen that is included in the package also use the Canopus Pro Coder but this is best done not with normal files but rather with QT ref. files that are in real life just pointers to your cliplist (and there are some problems with the Xpress Pro and QT ref. files...) Effects - less than the Storm/Premiere but all is there for normal use. Text tool - well can do normal things also roll and crawl - I have seen better but about the same level as Premiere 6.5 and Pro. Colour correction - second to none - its the same as in the big Avids. Waveform monitor and vectorscope included YES and showing correct levels YES. So your dilemma is simply that when you really are able to compare you have put so much effort into learning Avid that it would be a waste of time to use anything else... Christian

January 27th, 2004, 02:57 AM	#11
Manuel Albarracin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale Posts: 54	Thanks Christian, wow!!! now that is the answer I have been seeking. From someone who has taken the path that I plan to take. Your reply has been so enlightening. Now I have to decide if I have enough guts for such an undertaking. As for Mike he has his point too... But at this point I believe I have enough video equipment for what I need.

January 27th, 2004, 03:55 AM	#12
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	Wow Christian. You made me wanna jump up and go get Avid right now. Did I mention I am already on my way?! ;) Love that great review. I'm going to check it out now. Thanks __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'

January 28th, 2004, 01:30 AM	#13
Manuel Albarracin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale Posts: 54	By the way Christian how able the real time in Avid is it like the DVstorm and Premiere. Do I need to render to review the edits and the transitions. Also can I capture video (mini dv format) probably using a firewire card.