Imorting AVI clips into AE cause a crash

[Jack Robertson]

Hello,

When I import certain AVI clips into Adobe After Effects (v5.0 Pro), After Effects reports an error and then crashes. At first I though it might have been because of the clip's size (above 2GB) but this is not the case.

The actual error from After Effects:
"After Effects can't continue: sorry an abnormal condition has been detected (2). (0::42)"

Has anyone come accross this, and if so what is the work around?

Cheers,
Jack

[Dan Tolbertson]

I run into the problem ALL the time. I am running AE 6.0 Pro and I really havent found a great work around. I capture and edit using a Pinnacle Pro One with Premeire 6.5

I figure it must be the pinnacle codec that I capture with ( as it provides real time workflow) I also think it may be the length of a capture. (not sure if this is correct, just a gut feeling) When I do have something I need to get done with AE and it crashes trying to import the file ( doesnt happen on every file so there is no real basis that I know before trying to import it if it will work or not) If it doesnt work I will put the clip in my timeline and export it to a new file and then work with that file. It has seemed to work in most cases but it sure is a major pain in the neck to have my workflow inturupted with this glitch.

I am running:
1.8 P4
1 Gig Ram
Windows XP home
Pinnacle Pro One
Premeire 6.5
After effects 6.0 Pro

If anyone else has suggestions I would love to hear them. I really don't like the idea of capturing in a different codec though ( like Microsoft DV) as then I lose my Real Time ability.

Thanks

[Dan Tolbertson]

Jack, Is there any similarities in our systems?

[Jack Robertson]

Hi Dan,

I was hoping to reply with an answer, but I'm still searching.

Yes our systems are very similar, I run the Pinnacle DV500Plus edit card with the below system hardware and software.

At this stage I have tested importing numerous AVIs and it seems that AVIs captured from analog sources (via the DV500) are the ones affected, but not all, only ones that are large, and perhaps above 2GB. On the other hand, I have had no crash with any AVIs created or rendered by Premiere (using the same Pinnacle codec), or AVIs transferred into the PC using firewire with any sizes bigger or smaller than 2GB. Weird of you ask me.

Currently as a work around I do the same as you, I re-render the problem AVI via Premiere and it works like a charm. But like you I am reluctant in using other codecs as that means I loose the "real-time" capabilities of the Pinnacle card.

I am running:
1GHz PIII
320MB RAM
Windows 2000 Pro
Pinnacle DV500Plus
Premeire 6.01
After effects 5.0 Pro

(I know it's a bit old, but I do have a new system 2.4GHz /1GB RAM that I still haven't had time to put together).

One last thing, out of all the research I have done I have found one interesting tweak (see below), that supposedly fixes the problem, but not im my case... perhaps you could give it a try and let me know if it worked for you...

Here is a link to a Adobe Forums thread about the same problem, but with that tweak, (you need to register with them otherwise you cannot view it, if you have problems with the link, I can just cut and paste it here if you want).

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@255.btNxbbYCTV7.0@.1de83341/0

Cheers,
Jack

[Rob Lohman]

It looks like the problem is indeed somewhere in the Pinnacle
chain. Are these "real-time capabilities" also supposed to work
with After Effects specifically? Since if the product isn't natively
supporting AE then it won't matter and it won't do any work
for you at all. If so, you might go out to uncompressed to save
a render generation.

Perhaps you should try and contact Pinnacle tech support?

[Jack Robertson]

I agree, it may be the Pinnacle codec.

In my case the Pinnacle DV500Plus card does real time but is limited only to the analog outputs, which is ok for work flow and instant results, but you still have to render to final AVI (for AE) or when going to firewire (to DV tape/camera).

In the case of After Effects, I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that it is purely a software program and doesn't really support any hardware in real time, it does however support or should support most codecs for importing and exporting.

At the moment it is an intermittent problem which I guess makes it a little hard to track I guess.

Anyway, I'll try and see what Pinnacle has to say about this, but I've had bad luck with their support before :(

Jack

[Rob Lohman]

Jack, I do know some cards out there also offer acceleration
for AE, that's why I brought it up. But if your card doesn't
specifically then there is no point in using the Pinnacle codec
anyway, really. I'd go with uncompressed then if you can handle
the sizes of those files. You'll save one generation loss that way.

[Dan Tolbertson]

I am not refering to any real time cababilities for A/E other than the file (when Captured) is in the pinnacle codec. To import it in any other codec would mean that I have no real time ability while in premeire. I do export it to a different file type when I need to use the footage in AE which is what I was hoping I could get by with not doing. I am ready to just chuck the whole real time thing out though as it ges frustrating to use the Pinnacle DV2 file in both applications

[Rob Lohman]

Are you going BACK to Premiere AFTER coming from AE? Then it
seems you are out of luck indeed. I was assuming you edited in
Premiere, outputted that to AE (which can be basically in any
codec you want, including Microsoft DV or uncompressed) then
adding final effects before burning to DVD for example.

[Dan Tolbertson]

Yes- That is what I do. I capture the file with my Pinnacle Pro one card (pinnacle DV Codec beacuse it need that for realtime in Premiere) I then do editing in premeire and special effects in A/E. When I decide to use after effectsI will import the clip into A/E so I can work on it but this is where it has the problem. It does not like the Pinnacle codec apparently. I usually do whaever effects I wanted to do then render it to a new file which I use in Premeire for the editing. I am having no issue with that part as I can export directly from A/E in the pinnacle codec and all is great using that file in Premeire. My only headache comes in the fact that I have to take a capured clip and save it into a different format (microsoft DV, uncomressed, etc) in order to use it in A/E. The downside is the timeframe it takes Premeire to redo that clip in a different codec. Because it changes from the realtime codec the whole clip has to be rendered and it is VERY slow. My thinking was that if I just captured it with say Microsoft DV in the first place it would be useable in both apps except for the realtime effects and transistion. Hope this makes sense to everyone.

[Jack Robertson]

Rob, I didn't know that some cards offer acceleration for AE, but as you suggest the Pinnacle doesn't.

A bit of explanation on the Pinnacle DV AVI:
Anything going into the PC via the Pinnacle Card results in a Pinnacle DV AVI file, which in turn is optimised for our hardware cards to perform a number of realtime transitions and effects mainly in Premiere though. And although we have a choice of capturing AVI 1.0 or Open DML, it doesn't seem to have an effect on the problem we have with AE (well in my case anyway, using the DV500Plus).

The Possible Cause of the Problem (in my case from doing my own tests):
Now the problem when importing these Pinnacle DV AVIs into AE seems to happen only with Pinnacle DV AVIs that are captured into the PC via the analogue inputs, and ones that are large in size (above 2GB). The problem doesn't seem to happen with Pinnacle DV AVIs that have originally been captured into the PC using firewire, nor it doesn't seem to happen when a Pinnacle DV AVI has been created internally (by Premiere for example). Oh and in both of these cases (whether the Pinnacle DV AVI was captured by firewire or created internally), size of the file doesn't matter, (ie they can be above 2GB and still have no problem in being imported into AE.

My current work around:
If I have the problem in my case, to work around it all I have to do is to drop the problem Pinnacle DV AVI into Premiere and just export it using the same Pinnacle codec (which for me doesn't take too long as it's really only copying the file to another one, no processing) and then I'm able to import the new (and identical) Pinnacle DV AVI file into AE with no problem. In theory it's "just copying" the file, but it must be "cleaning it up" if you know what I mean... this is the weird thing, but it seems to work.

Dan's work around (from what I can gather):
In Dan's situation I think his work around is slightly different, where he actually has to export the problem Pinnace DV AVI into something else (like Micro$oft DV AVI) so that he can then import it into AE.

The real problem that's annoying us:
In both cases it's the re-rendering and creating new files that is the annoying step, it obviously takes time and eats up space on your HD.

Pinnacle's Fault?
Through my ongoing search of the above, I have found other frustrated Pinnacle users (on Google Groups) that have similar problems when importing their Pinnacle DV AVIs into AE, some of which reported that Pinnacle indeed know about it but refuse to provide any support for it. Apparently it says on their website (somewhere, but I haven't seen it) that the Pinnacle codec wasn't designed for AE and is not guaranteed as a result, or something to that effect. But to me that seems lame seeing that AE should in theory recognise ANY codec as per a book titled After Effects Bible (by J.J. Marshall & Zed Saeed).

Anyway sorry to bore all of you, since it only really seems to affect Pinnacle card owners.

But I'll still try and keep you updated though, that's if I find any answers.

Jack

[Dan Tolbertson]

Good information Jack. You sparked my curiosity on a couple of issues and I think I have a better idea of my own workarounds.

I capture all my stuff thru firewire on the pinnacle pro one board. When exporting a file to use in A/E I can often get away with just "copying" the file as you described above with the Pinnacle codec. In a few case it still did not work and I would either do it in a different codec or make the file smaller. I don't know why I never thought to look at the size of it in reference to that 2 gig standard since all my drives are NTSF. I did not think that was an issue anymore. But on a hunch I went and tried to import a bunch of files into A/E and sure enough...Only files that were larger than 2 gig gave me a problem. ANY file under that was imported without issue. So on my next project I will limit all capture files to less than 2 gig ( i think about 8 min) and I am hoping life will be good! a few more files to manage but certainly easier than managing all the "extra"files i have floating around at the end of a project now. Thanks for the good tip to get me looking. I will keep you posted on my next project if you like.

[Jack Robertson]

Dan, it's good to hear that you at least save one step in your work around. I for one would like this fixed, but if an easier work around is found such as limiting file sizes to less than 2GB, then so be it... it certainly beats doubling up on DV files.

Do keep me / us posted if you find out other info or work arounds that work for you. In the end it's forums like these that get real life results, unlike the promissed support that supposedly comes with our or other brand of cards.

Jack

[Rob Lohman]

Oh it's definitely Pinnacle's fault, that's for sure I think. It also
doesn't have a good reputation for compatability, support and
drivers (especially the last one). Canopus is better in that regard,
but still.

I wish I could help you guys out more, but it just seems like you
are out of look. If the final step is After Effects, why not do this:

1) edit everything in Premiere

2) render it as one final DV AVI file (can be Pinnacle since you claimed internal renders work fine)

3) Open it in AE and do all the effects and color correction on the total movie (that is one file)

4) You can then output to what you want / need since you don't need to edit anymore in Premiere

That's the best I can do probably. It's a real shame that it crashes,
I would suggest contacting Pinnacle, but that'll probably not get
you anywhere I'm afraid.

[Jiggy Gaton]

hello u 2, i get the SAME error message when i try to get a bit of raw footage from my canon xl1s, taken in using DVGATE+. I don't remember happening when i installed 6.0 many moons ago. Now that I (think) i need it, it's belly up. What to do? I have a very simple editing system, a sony vaio laptop with prem pro, dvgate, and all the other adobe products.