What to get?? at DVinfo.net

Joel Ruggiero · September 25th, 2003, 02:19 PM

I am looking to buy a new PC. I will mainly use it for editing. I have asked this question before in a different form and everyone tells me Mac. I actually went to the Mac store to check them out but I like the g5 but it is a bit to expensive. I probably will get a PC instead of a Mac. I am not doing anything to professional its just a hobby. I don't have a ton to spend just around 1000-1500. Seeing that I am only 17 and just about every one else has more experience then me on this topic. I was looking at the Sony PCV-RS 420, I was just wondering if it would be good for what I am doing. If any one has any suggestions they would be of great help!!!

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ntentItemPage=

Mike Rehmus · September 25th, 2003, 06:01 PM

YOu didn't state what you are doing.

The steps in picking out a video editing system are:

1. Decide what software you want to use to support your needs.

2. Decide what video hardware (if any) you need to support the software.

3. Decide on the computer to support 1 & 2.

Any other order and you may end up with a computer that doesn't work with your video editing tools or doesn't accomplish what you want to do.

Joel Ruggiero · September 25th, 2003, 08:23 PM

I am going to use adobe premiere and after affects. Did you look at that link?? WHat do you mean by vidoe hardware?

Adrian Douglas · September 25th, 2003, 08:41 PM

Joel,

I'd upgrade to XP Pro, add a second hard drive for your video files and add another 512MB of RAM for a start. That would be the bare minimum if I was looking at that systm. From there I would also add an anlogue/digital converter like Canopus's ADVC100 or a deck of some kind to allow preview on a TV/broadcast monitor. The deck isn't 100% necessary but if you want to save your camera heads and save yourseelf hooking up your camera every time you want to edit it's money well spent.

Mike Rehmus · September 25th, 2003, 10:44 PM

I did look at the link. I don't have first-hand experience but there was, some time ago, a lot of bad words directed at the Sony systems that just plain didn't work and were proprietary enough that the owner had no choice but to abandon the computer for video editing and find something else.

Video hardware is the hardware necessary to support the software in a reasonable manner. In a production environment, the hardware on the Sony wouldn't be adequate. In your hobby application, it may be.

The street price for a registerable copy of Premiere and After effects will put the entire rig over your $1500 max unless you meant that to be just for the hardware.

As Adrian said, at a minimum you will have to add a second large drive to the computer. More memory would be good as After Effects is a memory hog.

The rest of it is icing for a hobby unless you get critical about your results. If you do, then you will very soon want to make editing decisions based on what you see on a tv monitor, not the computer monitor which doesn't deliver the necessary picture qualityf or adjusting color, etc.

Glenn Chan · September 26th, 2003, 11:18 PM

I edited some video on a friend's Sony VIAO laptop (Adobe Premiere) and it was ok. I didn't find the hardware that lacking or any proprietary BS (Sony software is loaded on there but you don't have to use it). The laptop was pretty much turn-key although it doesn't come with Adobe Premiere. I don't know how good Sony's prices are.

For desktops, Dell sometimes has some really good deals. That's when they have free RAM and shipping promotions going on. Check any of the hot deals websites around. Install RAM and 2nd hard drive and 2nd monitor yourself to save money if you want (this applies to Apple too). newegg.com is the place to look at for computer parts on the net (great service, the best price most of the time).

Specs:
I suggest pentium 2.4, 1 GB RAM, a 120GB hard drive for video storage (any drive + a 120GB or other large drive would be ideal... otherwise one large drive would be ok), and dual monitors if you can afford it.

Andrew Leigh · September 27th, 2003, 12:01 AM

Hi guy's

also in the same process. After much browsing and review reading I think I'm going for;

Abit's IC7-G Max2.
This board is apparently stunning and allows for real easy overclocking for those who wish. On the Canopus forums there are many happy users I quote from one of them.

<<"I upgraded to a Abit IC7-G with a 2.4 P4 overclocked to 3.06 and get 9 streams of video realtime! Perfectly stable and normal temps. I tested the streams by setting the opacity to 50% on layers 2-9. I could get 10 streams for 49 seconds. I am using intel raid for my video drive - 2-120gig serial ata's.">>

I will however go for the 2,8 processor. On checking the relative performance of processors versus the price I think that the 2.8 is the best bang for your buck. See tomshardware.com

I will be adding 1gig of Ram as the chances of matching ram sticks at a later stage will be highly unlikely.

Good luck
Andrew

Glenn Chan · September 27th, 2003, 12:35 AM

Andrew,
The Pentium 2.4c actually overclocks the best (best bang for the buck at least), although you can argue that the 2.6c overclocks the best. ocaddiction.com has an article on this:
http://www.ocaddiction.com/reviews/c...up/page7.shtml

With the 2.8c you may/will have to decrease your RAM speed to get the processor speed up. You may need to do some tweaking with voltages and you will need quality power supply, quality cooling, and maybe quality RAM.

The 2.4c is the easiest overclock. Should you choose quality RAM (i.e. PC4000 RAM, which was not available during the date of the ocaddiction article) it will let you push it all the way while the CPU will have lots of headroom. For video work RAM speed is probably more important than CPU speed.

RAM speed = Front Side Bus X memory divider
CPU speed = Front Side Bus X a fixed multiplier (i.e. 12X for the 2.4c, 13X for the 2.6c, etc.)
Front Side Bus: normally this is 200mhz but you can change this.
Memory divider: normally this is 1:1 but you can change it to 5:4 and 3:2 and maybe a few others. 1:1 is the fastest all other things being equal.
Voltage: You can up the voltage on the RAM and the CPU to get it to overclock further (I believe this is assumed in the ocaddiction article)
Cooling: you need good cooling. You can change the case to one with better airflow, add more fans, get a better CPU heatsink, get a stronger CPU fan (strength measured in CFM), switch to water or peltier cooling, add more case fans, etc.

Joel Ruggiero · September 27th, 2003, 10:12 AM

so are you saying its better for me to get a 2.4 then a 2.8. the sony is a 2.8. with 512 ram . I will upgrade the ram when i get it.

Glenn Chan · September 27th, 2003, 12:06 PM

Joel, if you may want to overclock then it would be better to get a pentium2.4 or 2.6. I am not sure if the Sony motherboards will even allow you to overclock and whether or not their computers are suitable for overclocking.

As far as value goes, you get more megahertz per dollar with the 2.4. I'm not sure if Sony computers are the greatest value. You might be able to take advantage of a Dell deal. Example: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1132526

The Sony computer btw comes with DDR333 RAM, while for that processor DDR400 RAM would be ideal. It seems like they are skimping on the RAM.

You probably want 1GB of RAM. If Dell isn't offering an upgrade deal on it then get some Kingston RAM from newegg.com and install it yourself (instructions around on the internet). You need RAM in pairs. Dell computers don't overclock last time I checked (see the ocaddiction.com review of a Dell computer).

Joel Ruggiero · September 27th, 2003, 07:40 PM

what is overclocking??

Glenn Chan · September 27th, 2003, 09:17 PM

from http://www.hyperdictionary.com/computing/overclocking:

Any adjustments made to computer hardware (or software) to make its CPU run at a higher clock frequency than intended by the original manufacturers. Typically this involves replacing the crystal in the clock generation circuitry with a higher frequency one or changing jumper settings or software configuration.

If the clock frequency is increased too far, eventually some component in the system will not be able to cope and the system will stop working. This failure may be continuous (the system never works at the higher frequency) or intermittant (it fails more often but works some of the time) or, in the worst case, irreversible (a component is damaged by overheating). Overclocking may necessitate improved cooling to maintain the same level of reliability.

---

If you're new with computers and don't have a friend who is good with computers then I don't suggest it.

Joel Ruggiero · September 28th, 2003, 07:02 PM

You guys are getting a little to technical for me. Remember I am only 17 and I am not doing anything too professional. I think I am going to get that Sony this week unless any one else has any suggestions. There is a good deal at circuit city over here where I can get a free 15 in flat panel monitor with a purchase of a Sony desktop.

September 25th, 2003, 02:19 PM	#1
Joel Ruggiero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 167	What to get?? I am looking to buy a new PC. I will mainly use it for editing. I have asked this question before in a different form and everyone tells me Mac. I actually went to the Mac store to check them out but I like the g5 but it is a bit to expensive. I probably will get a PC instead of a Mac. I am not doing anything to professional its just a hobby. I don't have a ton to spend just around 1000-1500. Seeing that I am only 17 and just about every one else has more experience then me on this topic. I was looking at the Sony PCV-RS 420, I was just wondering if it would be good for what I am doing. If any one has any suggestions they would be of great help!!! http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ntentItemPage=

September 25th, 2003, 06:01 PM	#2
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	YOu didn't state what you are doing. The steps in picking out a video editing system are: 1. Decide what software you want to use to support your needs. 2. Decide what video hardware (if any) you need to support the software. 3. Decide on the computer to support 1 & 2. Any other order and you may end up with a computer that doesn't work with your video editing tools or doesn't accomplish what you want to do. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 25th, 2003, 08:41 PM	#4
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Joel, I'd upgrade to XP Pro, add a second hard drive for your video files and add another 512MB of RAM for a start. That would be the bare minimum if I was looking at that systm. From there I would also add an anlogue/digital converter like Canopus's ADVC100 or a deck of some kind to allow preview on a TV/broadcast monitor. The deck isn't 100% necessary but if you want to save your camera heads and save yourseelf hooking up your camera every time you want to edit it's money well spent. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

September 25th, 2003, 10:44 PM	#5
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I did look at the link. I don't have first-hand experience but there was, some time ago, a lot of bad words directed at the Sony systems that just plain didn't work and were proprietary enough that the owner had no choice but to abandon the computer for video editing and find something else. Video hardware is the hardware necessary to support the software in a reasonable manner. In a production environment, the hardware on the Sony wouldn't be adequate. In your hobby application, it may be. The street price for a registerable copy of Premiere and After effects will put the entire rig over your $1500 max unless you meant that to be just for the hardware. As Adrian said, at a minimum you will have to add a second large drive to the computer. More memory would be good as After Effects is a memory hog. The rest of it is icing for a hobby unless you get critical about your results. If you do, then you will very soon want to make editing decisions based on what you see on a tv monitor, not the computer monitor which doesn't deliver the necessary picture qualityf or adjusting color, etc. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 27th, 2003, 12:01 AM	#7
Andrew Leigh Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 220	Hi guy's also in the same process. After much browsing and review reading I think I'm going for; Abit's IC7-G Max2. This board is apparently stunning and allows for real easy overclocking for those who wish. On the Canopus forums there are many happy users I quote from one of them. <<"I upgraded to a Abit IC7-G with a 2.4 P4 overclocked to 3.06 and get 9 streams of video realtime! Perfectly stable and normal temps. I tested the streams by setting the opacity to 50% on layers 2-9. I could get 10 streams for 49 seconds. I am using intel raid for my video drive - 2-120gig serial ata's.">> I will however go for the 2,8 processor. On checking the relative performance of processors versus the price I think that the 2.8 is the best bang for your buck. See tomshardware.com I will be adding 1gig of Ram as the chances of matching ram sticks at a later stage will be highly unlikely. Good luck Andrew __________________ PAL XL-1, DV Raptor, Premiere TOTAL AMATEUR - DOING IT FOR THE FUN

September 25th, 2003, 08:23 PM	#3
Joel Ruggiero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 167	I am going to use adobe premiere and after affects. Did you look at that link?? WHat do you mean by vidoe hardware?

September 26th, 2003, 11:18 PM	#6
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I edited some video on a friend's Sony VIAO laptop (Adobe Premiere) and it was ok. I didn't find the hardware that lacking or any proprietary BS (Sony software is loaded on there but you don't have to use it). The laptop was pretty much turn-key although it doesn't come with Adobe Premiere. I don't know how good Sony's prices are. For desktops, Dell sometimes has some really good deals. That's when they have free RAM and shipping promotions going on. Check any of the hot deals websites around. Install RAM and 2nd hard drive and 2nd monitor yourself to save money if you want (this applies to Apple too). newegg.com is the place to look at for computer parts on the net (great service, the best price most of the time). Specs: I suggest pentium 2.4, 1 GB RAM, a 120GB hard drive for video storage (any drive + a 120GB or other large drive would be ideal... otherwise one large drive would be ok), and dual monitors if you can afford it.

September 27th, 2003, 12:35 AM	#8
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Andrew, The Pentium 2.4c actually overclocks the best (best bang for the buck at least), although you can argue that the 2.6c overclocks the best. ocaddiction.com has an article on this: http://www.ocaddiction.com/reviews/c...up/page7.shtml With the 2.8c you may/will have to decrease your RAM speed to get the processor speed up. You may need to do some tweaking with voltages and you will need quality power supply, quality cooling, and maybe quality RAM. The 2.4c is the easiest overclock. Should you choose quality RAM (i.e. PC4000 RAM, which was not available during the date of the ocaddiction article) it will let you push it all the way while the CPU will have lots of headroom. For video work RAM speed is probably more important than CPU speed. RAM speed = Front Side Bus X memory divider CPU speed = Front Side Bus X a fixed multiplier (i.e. 12X for the 2.4c, 13X for the 2.6c, etc.) Front Side Bus: normally this is 200mhz but you can change this. Memory divider: normally this is 1:1 but you can change it to 5:4 and 3:2 and maybe a few others. 1:1 is the fastest all other things being equal. Voltage: You can up the voltage on the RAM and the CPU to get it to overclock further (I believe this is assumed in the ocaddiction article) Cooling: you need good cooling. You can change the case to one with better airflow, add more fans, get a better CPU heatsink, get a stronger CPU fan (strength measured in CFM), switch to water or peltier cooling, add more case fans, etc.

September 27th, 2003, 10:12 AM	#9
Joel Ruggiero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 167	so are you saying its better for me to get a 2.4 then a 2.8. the sony is a 2.8. with 512 ram . I will upgrade the ram when i get it.

September 27th, 2003, 12:06 PM	#10
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Joel, if you may want to overclock then it would be better to get a pentium2.4 or 2.6. I am not sure if the Sony motherboards will even allow you to overclock and whether or not their computers are suitable for overclocking. As far as value goes, you get more megahertz per dollar with the 2.4. I'm not sure if Sony computers are the greatest value. You might be able to take advantage of a Dell deal. Example: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1132526 The Sony computer btw comes with DDR333 RAM, while for that processor DDR400 RAM would be ideal. It seems like they are skimping on the RAM. You probably want 1GB of RAM. If Dell isn't offering an upgrade deal on it then get some Kingston RAM from newegg.com and install it yourself (instructions around on the internet). You need RAM in pairs. Dell computers don't overclock last time I checked (see the ocaddiction.com review of a Dell computer).

September 27th, 2003, 07:40 PM	#11
Joel Ruggiero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 167	what is overclocking??

September 27th, 2003, 09:17 PM	#12
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	from http://www.hyperdictionary.com/computing/overclocking: Any adjustments made to computer hardware (or software) to make its CPU run at a higher clock frequency than intended by the original manufacturers. Typically this involves replacing the crystal in the clock generation circuitry with a higher frequency one or changing jumper settings or software configuration. If the clock frequency is increased too far, eventually some component in the system will not be able to cope and the system will stop working. This failure may be continuous (the system never works at the higher frequency) or intermittant (it fails more often but works some of the time) or, in the worst case, irreversible (a component is damaged by overheating). Overclocking may necessitate improved cooling to maintain the same level of reliability. --- If you're new with computers and don't have a friend who is good with computers then I don't suggest it.

September 28th, 2003, 07:02 PM	#13
Joel Ruggiero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 167	You guys are getting a little to technical for me. Remember I am only 17 and I am not doing anything too professional. I think I am going to get that Sony this week unless any one else has any suggestions. There is a good deal at circuit city over here where I can get a free 15 in flat panel monitor with a purchase of a Sony desktop.