hdv downconvert to sd premiere pro cs3 at DVinfo.net

John Gerard · March 15th, 2009, 11:21 PM

Hi,

I have the Sony FX7 video camera and Premiere Pro CS3. I used HDvsplit to capture the HDV video and then I imported it into Premiere Pro CS3. When I was finished editing the project I tried exporting the project to Encore in the standard DVD format. It does not look very good. I was reading other notes that it is better to export the video in HD and use another program to convert to SD.

How do I export the video? Do I export to Encore in the BD format?

What is the best program to do the downconvert? The programs I read about so far are...

Mediacoder
Virtualdub
TMpeg xpress 4.5
AVIsynth

Thanks,

John Gerard

Gareth Watkins · March 16th, 2009, 02:13 AM

Hi John,
I export the HD from the timeline.. either Mpeg or uncompressed avi...upto you, I can't say I've seen a difference in the final result. The results with CS2 were not very good, but I now have CS4 and even this downscaling is ok. For practical and rapid SD downscaling the camera is your best bet.

Of the options you quote, I prefer TMpegenc as it will take your HD clip and give you a whole host of options for encoding. It does a pretty good job of downsizing to SD and encoding to DVD mpeg, avi or WMV...all in one go...

Virtualdub is pretty good too, you'll need to set it to the Lanczos 3 setting for best results...Virtualdub only outputs avi, so then you'll need to encode with a separate software ie.TMpeg for DVD.
This adds another step, but I can't see any real difference. I've messed around for hours trying to get the absolutely best downconvert and basically once you output to DVD and play on a tv they all look good... sure side by side comparisons will probably show a winner, and there is loads of theories as to why such and such a method is better, but at the end of the day its about practical workflow and the extra time needed to add two to three extra steps in your output...
cheers
Gareth

Ray Bell · March 16th, 2009, 04:59 AM

This is what I've been told....

If you want to convert HD to SD its best to ingest the footage into PPRO and then output
the video to SD without any editing done...

then ingest the footage back into PPRO to do the actual edits on the SD footage....

John Gerard · March 16th, 2009, 12:10 PM

hi,

I tried exporting the video in Microsoft uncompressed AVI format. The screen comes up with 720x480 filled in. I changed this to 1440x1080. Is this the way I am supposed to export the video?

I am OK with the quality of the SD convert even in PP to Encore per say. The problem is with the "diagonals", if that is the correct term. That's where it looks bad and I can't tell if this is going to end up in the final video. The original video looks really great in PP.

John Gerard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth Watkins

Hi John,
I export the HD from the timeline.. either Mpeg or uncompressed avi...upto you, I can't say I've seen a difference in the final result. The results with CS2 were not very good, but I now have CS4 and even this downscaling is ok. For practical and rapid SD downscaling the camera is your best bet.

Of the options you quote, I prefer TMpegenc as it will take your HD clip and give you a whole host of options for encoding. It does a pretty good job of downsizing to SD and encoding to DVD mpeg, avi or WMV...all in one go...

Virtualdub is pretty good too, you'll need to set it to the Lanczos 3 setting for best results...Virtualdub only outputs avi, so then you'll need to encode with a separate software ie.TMpeg for DVD.
This adds another step, but I can't see any real difference. I've messed around for hours trying to get the absolutely best downconvert and basically once you output to DVD and play on a tv they all look good... sure side by side comparisons will probably show a winner, and there is loads of theories as to why such and such a method is better, but at the end of the day its about practical workflow and the extra time needed to add two to three extra steps in your output...
cheers
Gareth

Howard Churgin · March 17th, 2009, 06:45 AM

Just my 2 cents...

I shoot XHA1 in HDV
Capture with HDV split to PPro CS3(make sure your project is HDV in PPRO)
Edit, effects in After Effects etc.. (all transfering from PPro to AE is done via Quciktime Animation High Quality lossless w keyframing.
After project is complete go to Adobe Media encoder and modify an mpeg2 dvd template for highest quality encoding. (two pass vbr, 8-9 mbs etc. add keyframing) Watch your interlacing method. Remember HD is upper field first, SD is lower field first.If you dont get this right your video will certainly not look right. Encode the project and bring into Encore to make a regular DVD. Quality should look excellent.

I have recently swithed from encoding with Adobe Media encoder to Tmpeg Xpress 4.0. This encoding quality is even better and gives me results as close as I have ever seen to commercial dvd's as far as quality and sharpness and detail.

I dont think any downconverting is a good idea prior to your final encoding. Keep as much data as long as you can before the compression happens.

What type of tv are you looking at it on and how does it compare to commercial DVD's?
My recent tests indicate excellent results and very little difference at up to 52" HD tv tests.

John Gerard · March 17th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Hi,

I will try out your suggestions. I have a Dell 490 with the 2407wfp monitor and I just bought the 2408wfp 24" monitor to replace my 17" dell monitor. The 2408 is a little pricey but has about every I/O option you could ever use including HDMI and the new Digital Display port. I have a 13" tube TV that I was using with the Intensity Pro card capturing SD footage from a Panasonic VHS-C camera. I also have the Blackmagic Intensity Pro card. Right now I imported the Video into PP after capturing the footage in HDVsplit. It does a good job. I only get Red frames on the frames right between the splits. This is using the Sony Preimum DV tapes. I get a great deal on the tapes at Cosco. So far I edited the footage in HDV and exported it to Encore as a DVD disk setting. I played the footage in Windows media player and it looks not bad. not great but not bad. When I import the footage in Encore this is when I get the diagonals problem. Both tests the output is displayed on the Dell monitors.

John Gerard

Howard Churgin · March 17th, 2009, 03:03 PM

Why dont you burn a DVD and play it on a good TV and see what you think. I would only guess that a good HD tv will be much better than your computer monitor.

I am not sure what you mean by red frames between clips. I think you might need to render your timeline by hitting enter.

John Gerard · March 17th, 2009, 03:35 PM

Hi again,

I have found one other issue that my eye did not catch at first glance. The HDV footage looks great on my dell monitor in full screen at full speed. At the begining fo this particular project I have a lot of time remapping and I see that the "diagonal" problem is showing up. See if this is happening to you, also. I have yet to export this project to DVD so I don't know what the final project is going to look like. This problem might be just with viewing it in PP only. I have to learn more to be sure what is really going on. I know that changing the field options does not make any difference.

John Gerard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Churgin

Just my 2 cents...

I shoot XHA1 in HDV
Capture with HDV split to PPro CS3(make sure your project is HDV in PPRO)
Edit, effects in After Effects etc.. (all transfering from PPro to AE is done via Quciktime Animation High Quality lossless w keyframing.
After project is complete go to Adobe Media encoder and modify an mpeg2 dvd template for highest quality encoding. (two pass vbr, 8-9 mbs etc. add keyframing) Watch your interlacing method. Remember HD is upper field first, SD is lower field first.If you dont get this right your video will certainly not look right. Encode the project and bring into Encore to make a regular DVD. Quality should look excellent.

I have recently swithed from encoding with Adobe Media encoder to Tmpeg Xpress 4.0. This encoding quality is even better and gives me results as close as I have ever seen to commercial dvd's as far as quality and sharpness and detail.

I dont think any downconverting is a good idea prior to your final encoding. Keep as much data as long as you can before the compression happens.

What type of tv are you looking at it on and how does it compare to commercial DVD's?
My recent tests indicate excellent results and very little difference at up to 52" HD tv tests.

John Gerard · March 18th, 2009, 04:55 PM

I have read notes talking about red frames. Look up a topic about which is the best DV tapes to use for HDV to read more about it. I believe that red frames happen whenever there is a drop out of frames do to the tape not being able to keep up with the recording speed. Low quality tapes. This happens more offten in HD than SD. These show up as a solid Red frame.

John Gerard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Churgin

Why dont you burn a DVD and play it on a good TV and see what you think. I would only guess that a good HD tv will be much better than your computer monitor.

I am not sure what you mean by red frames between clips. I think you might need to render your timeline by hitting enter.

John Gerard · March 18th, 2009, 05:03 PM

What I mean by between clips. Is that there are some red frames at the very end of each clip. No red frames show up in the middle of any clip. I think my computer monitor should be just as good as any HD TV, not that I have compared specs. but it has all the same inputs and the like of an HD TV so I assume it can be used either way.

John Gerard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Churgin

Why dont you burn a DVD and play it on a good TV and see what you think. I would only guess that a good HD tv will be much better than your computer monitor.

I am not sure what you mean by red frames between clips. I think you might need to render your timeline by hitting enter.

March 15th, 2009, 11:21 PM	#1
John Gerard Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 227	hdv downconvert to sd premiere pro cs3 Hi, I have the Sony FX7 video camera and Premiere Pro CS3. I used HDvsplit to capture the HDV video and then I imported it into Premiere Pro CS3. When I was finished editing the project I tried exporting the project to Encore in the standard DVD format. It does not look very good. I was reading other notes that it is better to export the video in HD and use another program to convert to SD. How do I export the video? Do I export to Encore in the BD format? What is the best program to do the downconvert? The programs I read about so far are... Mediacoder Virtualdub TMpeg xpress 4.5 AVIsynth Thanks, John Gerard

March 16th, 2009, 02:13 AM	#2
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Hi John, I export the HD from the timeline.. either Mpeg or uncompressed avi...upto you, I can't say I've seen a difference in the final result. The results with CS2 were not very good, but I now have CS4 and even this downscaling is ok. For practical and rapid SD downscaling the camera is your best bet. Of the options you quote, I prefer TMpegenc as it will take your HD clip and give you a whole host of options for encoding. It does a pretty good job of downsizing to SD and encoding to DVD mpeg, avi or WMV...all in one go... Virtualdub is pretty good too, you'll need to set it to the Lanczos 3 setting for best results...Virtualdub only outputs avi, so then you'll need to encode with a separate software ie.TMpeg for DVD. This adds another step, but I can't see any real difference. I've messed around for hours trying to get the absolutely best downconvert and basically once you output to DVD and play on a tv they all look good... sure side by side comparisons will probably show a winner, and there is loads of theories as to why such and such a method is better, but at the end of the day its about practical workflow and the extra time needed to add two to three extra steps in your output... cheers Gareth __________________ www.gwenllyn.com

March 17th, 2009, 02:37 PM	#6
John Gerard Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 227	HD downconvert to SD Hi, I will try out your suggestions. I have a Dell 490 with the 2407wfp monitor and I just bought the 2408wfp 24" monitor to replace my 17" dell monitor. The 2408 is a little pricey but has about every I/O option you could ever use including HDMI and the new Digital Display port. I have a 13" tube TV that I was using with the Intensity Pro card capturing SD footage from a Panasonic VHS-C camera. I also have the Blackmagic Intensity Pro card. Right now I imported the Video into PP after capturing the footage in HDVsplit. It does a good job. I only get Red frames on the frames right between the splits. This is using the Sony Preimum DV tapes. I get a great deal on the tapes at Cosco. So far I edited the footage in HDV and exported it to Encore as a DVD disk setting. I played the footage in Windows media player and it looks not bad. not great but not bad. When I import the footage in Encore this is when I get the diagonals problem. Both tests the output is displayed on the Dell monitors. John Gerard

March 16th, 2009, 04:59 AM	#3
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	This is what I've been told.... If you want to convert HD to SD its best to ingest the footage into PPRO and then output the video to SD without any editing done... then ingest the footage back into PPRO to do the actual edits on the SD footage....

March 17th, 2009, 06:45 AM	#5
Howard Churgin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posts: 85	Just my 2 cents... I shoot XHA1 in HDV Capture with HDV split to PPro CS3(make sure your project is HDV in PPRO) Edit, effects in After Effects etc.. (all transfering from PPro to AE is done via Quciktime Animation High Quality lossless w keyframing. After project is complete go to Adobe Media encoder and modify an mpeg2 dvd template for highest quality encoding. (two pass vbr, 8-9 mbs etc. add keyframing) Watch your interlacing method. Remember HD is upper field first, SD is lower field first.If you dont get this right your video will certainly not look right. Encode the project and bring into Encore to make a regular DVD. Quality should look excellent. I have recently swithed from encoding with Adobe Media encoder to Tmpeg Xpress 4.0. This encoding quality is even better and gives me results as close as I have ever seen to commercial dvd's as far as quality and sharpness and detail. I dont think any downconverting is a good idea prior to your final encoding. Keep as much data as long as you can before the compression happens. What type of tv are you looking at it on and how does it compare to commercial DVD's? My recent tests indicate excellent results and very little difference at up to 52" HD tv tests.

March 17th, 2009, 03:03 PM	#7
Howard Churgin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posts: 85	Why dont you burn a DVD and play it on a good TV and see what you think. I would only guess that a good HD tv will be much better than your computer monitor. I am not sure what you mean by red frames between clips. I think you might need to render your timeline by hitting enter.