Matrox RTX2 on Opteron 270s K8WE, vs. Buying a new i7 computer? which betr?

[Tyson Persall]

Hi, I know someone editing an older computer built with dual Opteron 270s on Tyan K8WE motherboard. They always complain about there renders out of premiere CS3 taking so long. -Will the Matrox RTX2 hardware accelerate these renders of HDV video much on this computer- to a noticeable amount? - or should they just buy a new i7 computer altogether?
Whats the better investment - as the end cost is about the same.

[Peter Manojlovic]

Hey Tyson.....
I've got two dual core Opterons running on my HP workstation...I believe it's the same motherboard.
And regardless of processor speed, the application is usually to blame for speed issues, and not the CPU's...I believe that CS4 will allow for multithreading, but you're out of luck with previous versions.

I can't give you an answer on i7 vs. an accelerator card vs. Cineform, but i can say this.........
The motherboard mentioned, on an HP workstation, is the backbone of some of the higher end editing stations, supporting full HD workflows..
It has a bus architecture that doesn't allow for the same bottlenecking issues that might be found on a faster system.
I even believe that your friend's Mobo is certified by Matrox to boot.
At least, you have a monitoring solution with the card..

Good luck on your quest, there's lots of info. out there.

[Gary Bettan]

putting the RT.X2 on that system will have it cutting through HDV footage like it's butter. You'll have a ton of real-time performance. even better it shpould be rock solid stable with the machine you describe.

Gary

[Harm Millaard]

Personally I will never touch a Matrox card again. Too many driver problems, instabilities and the need to get a new card with a new version of Adobe. I would give preference to a better CPU, in your case an i7 and get rid of everything Matrox. Of course, Matrox does not yet support the latest hardware and by the time it does, that hardware is outdated. If you install a Matrox card in anything that is not 100% (or even 200%) on their compatible hardware list, you are in for serious trouble. Those are serious limitations and you have to weigh the pro's and con's but IMO Matrox is not worth it's price.

[Peter Manojlovic]

Hey Harm, i can sympathize with your situation, but I think there's a general consensus that no matter which route you turn to, there's problems up the road..

I don't care how fast the i7 is, unless there's serious multithreading involved at the software level, you're going to need a hardward solution...

Matrox is an I frame editor that worries me as far as generation loss. Cineform is great, but you need to invest in an AJA card to enjoy its' full benefits, and the better faster CPU route, will bottleneck eventually..Computer speed excitement wears down pretty fast after a few renders. It's never fast enough...


And if you notice, it seems that everybody that creates CS4 solutions are waaay behind for support, and are playing catchup.
It's quite disturbing if you ask me...

[Gary Bettan]

sorry to hear about your Matrox troubles. No doubt about it, some folks have run into issues in the past. that said, a few points to clear up:

1) Matrox has done an admirable job over the years adding features and compatibility to new versions of Premiere as they come out. RT.X2 is the first and only hardware now certified with Premiere CS4. RTX2 isn't just a simple I/O device. It adds real-time playback and accelerated encoding. This requires much more engineering then just I/O.

2) Unfortunately technical issues do come up that force Matrox to stop developing drivers for older hardware. The RTX.100 was supported for Premiere Pro CS1 and CS2. Unfortunately with CS3 they had to stop driver developement.

3) Over the years Matrox has released new drivers that add not just compatability, but new features and supported formats. These are free downloads to registered users

4) Matrox loyalty rebates and trade-in offers. over the years Matrox has offered discounts and rebates to loyal users. right now RT owners can get a $200 lyalty rebate towards the purchase of an RT.X2 or RT.X2 le card.

5) Even with multicore processors HDV footage long GOP structure still puts a lot of stress on the system. HDV editing can get clunky with complex timelines. With the RT.X2 you can cut through HDV like it's DV. Smooth and efficient. with real-time playback.

for more info, check out our rt.x2 faq
Videoguys' Matrox RT.X2 LE FAQ on sale $999.95

Gary

[Steve Oakley]

Prem Pro is fully multithreaded since CS1. it will use all the CPU cores you have. that said, sometimes dedicated hardware like matrox's will work better simply because its custom chips made to do the job better.

with matrox hardware its also important to look at what they say won't work well. if its listed to not work right, well what can you expect if you are using the wrong hardware. I've found that if you at least work with a mobo with a blessed chipset, you're in good shape. having enough ram and fast procs too. with the last generation or two of hardware though, the systems have gotten a lot less picky because they are so fast. what you guys forget is that with mac systems, the hardware is limited and controlled so getting things to work on a mac is much simpler - there is far less variation in the hardware, and its of upper end quality when compared to typical PC's. the fact matrox stuff can work with lower end hardware is testiment to how hard they work do get it right.

as for generation loss in I frame Mpeg2, its nothing to worry about. people get a little too hung up about this stuff. at best a few pixels get changed a little here or there. more happens to hurt an image with the original HDV compression then the TL renders. its not like editing on tape where you could bounce images down in layering several times before master, then program dupes. well in analog that was a problem, but not in digital. you've all edited beta SP->beta SP, right ? this isn't mjpeg circa 1998 either.

[Peter Manojlovic]

Steve....
I'm not familiar with Premiere Pro CS1.....

I've got Ver.2.0, and it sure doesn't multithread...Is there a setting i'm missing?

I've got Two dualcore Opterons that fly on other apps, but not on Premiere 2.0...
I checked the task manager, and Premiere Pro 2.0 rendered with only one core, and the other three were duds...

You've got a suggestion?

[Mark Morreau]

Originally Posted by Gary Bettan

sorry to hear about your Matrox troubles. No doubt about it, some folks have run into issues in the past. that said, a few points to clear up:

1) Matrox has done an admirable job over the years adding features and compatibility to new versions of Premiere as they come out. RT.X2 is the first and only hardware now certified with Premiere CS4. RTX2 isn't just a simple I/O device. It adds real-time playback and accelerated encoding. This requires much more engineering then just I/O.

Gary

I am amazed that the RT.X2 is certified with Premiere CS4. I have had so many problems with it that I've reverted back to CS3, where it works very well and I'm very happy with it. Frankly, I can't imagine that the certification process can be very rigorous!

I should also point out that, at this point, the RT.X2/CS4 combination does offer real-time playback but it does NOT offer accelerated encoding. We're still waiting for Matrox to implement that particular feature.

[Tilford Bartman]

I'm upgrading my computer this weekend with Intel i7 920, 6gigs DDR3 1600, ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution motherboard, BFG 260 GEFORCE 896 ram, 150 gig WD Raptor System Drive, 300 Gig Seagate Applications Drive, 1TB G-tech ESATA external in software raid for video, ESATA Blue Ray burner, DVD CDRW Burner, on board sound (it's decent on this MB) but may install sound card?

OS- Vista Ultimate 64bit

Option 1: Plan to install Premiere CS4. I would like to use Prospect HD for it's real time and excellent codec, and Blackmagic Intensity card for overlay of time line to an HDMI external monitor, and perhaps later ingestion of 8 bit HD through HDMI once I have a better external raid array.

I'm waiting to see if Blackmagic, Cineform, and CS4 in 64 bit Vista will become a working reality? If so I will buy it right away.

Option 2: Alternative is to install my Matox RTx2 that I had running on my old Machine. They have new Matrox Tools Version that is for CS4 64 bit Vista, and you can overlay with RTx2 through DVI to an external monitor. Problem is that right now Matrox Tools RTx2 appears to be very full of problems with CS4 in 64 bit Vista, and I am not looking for a hair pulling project.

Option 3: Edius 5, with their HD spark card that has just HD out to external monitor. Apparently this all works well with 64 bit Vista. But I don't know Edius that well, and am much more familiar with Premiere, and also will have Photoshop and likely will have After Effects on my machine. Edius has great stability and excellent real time performance,and now overlay of time line with SPARK. but far less feature rich than premiere.

Any thoughts. . . anyone? Right now I think I'm going to be in a waiting mode more than anything else. There really doesn't appear to be any great option?

I do mostly 20-50 minute documentary on DVD of the history, culture, and genealogy of small villages on Polish Russian Boarder, but will now have Blue Ray option. I use motion video, quite a few stills, transitions, sometimes picture in a picture, etc. Sometimes music in the background and/or narration. I also just play around with video since days of Bravado MJPEG card, just prior to DV.

Tilford

[Tilford Bartman]

Originally Posted by Mark Morreau

I am amazed that the RT.X2 is certified with Premiere CS4. I have had so many problems with it that I've reverted back to CS3, where it works very well and I'm very happy with it. Frankly, I can't imagine that the certification process can be very rigorous!

I should also point out that, at this point, the RT.X2/CS4 combination does offer real-time playback but it does NOT offer accelerated encoding. We're still waiting for Matrox to implement that particular feature.

Thanks for the strait story. I had RTx2 in my old machine with CS3. This weekend I'm building a new machine with an Intel i70 920, 6 gigs DDR3 1600, BFG GEFORCE 260 Videocard with 896 of ram, Asus motherboard, and Vista 64 bit. I have Premiere and After Effect CS4. My plan is to install them both but not the RTx2. I'll wait and see what develops. and what if anything seems to work well in Premiere CS4 Windows 64bit. If Blackmagic Design, and Cineform HD get their act together in CS4, I may just go with an intensity pro and Cineform HD, but right now this doesn't work. . . they say their working on it and may have a release soon?

Tilford Bartman

[Matt Headley]

I'm waiting to hear any talk about matrox supporting avchd?