Editing PC won't boot

Jeff Harper · December 18th, 2008, 11:33 PM

Nice idea George, but how will a drive that will not boot on one PC boot on another? It would be far simpler to use a disc utility on his problem PC than to remove the drive and put it into another machine.

While it wouldn't hurt to check jumpers, if it was working properly until he defragged, that means it was set properly to begin with. If his jumpers were incorrect it wouldn't have been working to begin with. It's like the idea someone had that his processor was overheating. Processors don't go along fine and randomly start overheating, expecially on something simple like a defrag...

The chances his problem drive, under any circumstances, booting up on a different box are pretty slim...at best he would get safe mode even if the boxes are similar. The graphics drivers and chipsets would be likely be completely different and it wouldn't function.

I suspect he may have a bad hard drive anyway. I hope I'm wrong, but it has the symptoms. It could go either way. Hopefully he'll get it fixed and let us know what happened.

Vito DeFilippo · December 18th, 2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Nice idea George, but how will a drive that will not boot on one PC boot on another?

I think he means install the drive as a second (slave) drive and use the other computer's operating system to boot into Windows. Then he could use checkdisk.

Ron Cooper · December 19th, 2008, 07:45 AM

Most humbly to Mr. George Bean !
Or to put it in Aussie parlance, - Bloody Brilliant Mate ! IT WORKED !!

Now the details -(only if your interested), I removed the offending C drive from PC-1 & plugged it into the other (working PC-2) as you suggested, and I put it on a secondary SATA bus. in case it would confuse it with the C drive which is an IDE.

At switch-on IT AUTOMATICALLY DETECTED IT AS DRIVE F & STARTED A CHKDSK on the offending drive which took about 5 - 10 mins. - Thousands of entries corrected. - it ticked over like a high speed clock , but then on the last part (sect 5), it stopped, as it just said 0% completed. I left it for about ten minutes & then cancelled. Then it (PC-2) booted up on its normal C drive.

I realised that 3 days ago, I had set PC-1 to do a scan on the offending drive on re-boot, before it failed , BUT, on re-boot, it did NOT do a scan, so that was when I decided to do a de-frag and the problems started. So I guess that is why it scanned automatically when fitted to PC-2.

The curious thing is then why did it not do this in its original PC (same drive, same OS), instead of going into the loop at switch-on as described in my first post.

Of course I then removed the drive & replaced it back into PC-1 and just after switch-on, it stopped again at the same option screen - normal, safe-mode etc., but this time when I selected normal it did a normal boot-up.

I then ran a registry program - RegCure which found 460 problems and said it fixed them all ! I then ran it again & it said the same but with 39 problems. After doing this another 2 times the problems became zero.

I then selected it to do another scan at boot-up, and then I re-booted it. However, it did a scan but again when it got to part 5 it again showed 0% progress for about 15 minutes so I cancelled & it booted up normally, and so far seems to be fine.

I can only say thank you all very much for all you help in this saga which thankfully has a good ending.

RonC.

George Bean · December 19th, 2008, 10:39 AM

[QUOTE=Ron Cooper;980802]

The curious thing is then why did it not do this in its original PC (same drive, same OS), instead of going into the loop at switch-on as described in my first post.

windows has certain files it needs to access in a specific order to boot. when a pc is shut down unexpectedly these files are still on the hard drive but windows becomes confused as it does not read these files in the order it expects. this a a very simplifed explanation of why you get caught in the continual reboot loop.

windows starts, looks for a file, does not find file, shuts down starts again, looks for file, does not find file.... etc.

the quickest way to repari is run chkdsk with the /f command. the easiest way is to install the corrupted drive in a spare computer. the chkdsk will reorder the files the os needs to properly boot.

this most common cause is windows being shut down unexpectedly. always selct shutdown form the start menu or hold the power button in for four seconds until your pc powers down to avoid confusing windows.

Jeff Harper · December 19th, 2008, 11:36 AM

Way to go George, well done.

George Bean · December 19th, 2008, 02:49 PM

at some point either windows or your hard drive will fail. it is best to have a backup so there is no lost data and no downtime.

there are several options and reveiw and choose what is best for your situation, i use
acronis true image. i am not affialiated in any way shape or form with acronis, but the
true image program has saved my a$$ more than once.

two important features in an imaging program are being able to run the softwre from within windows and also the use of external usb and firewire drives.

here is the process:

from within windows start the true image program
select the drive you want to image
select a destination and name for the image
choose full backup and a name for the image
store your image on a portable drive in a safe environement

the program has a point and click process for making a bootable disk for restoring images

to restore an image when windows or your drive fails:

verify your cd/dvdrom is the first boot device
place your bootable cd into the drive
the true image program will run form the cd and prompt you step by step
it will ask what drive you want to restore and where the image file is located

if windows becomes corrupted, a hard drive fails or your pc gets a virus it typically takes less than a half hour to restore an image.

Ron Cooper · December 19th, 2008, 03:47 PM

Thanks again George, very helpful advice.

I forgot to mention though, in case you got the wrong impression, that I did always shut the thing down by holding the button for four seconds, but it still crashed. I'm puzzled as to why it did not go into the scan program when I originally scheduled it on the next boot-up. - ( With my old {A B I W }*, Win 98 machine at work you simply click on "Scan for errors" & choose quick or thorough, & away she goes. - None of this palava about access rights and scheduling on the next boot-up !)

I did notice though, that when it started the de-frag that the drive was very fragmented according to the red bars in the window, indicating to me that I should have defragged it more often.

RonC.
(Sorry for the grammar error in last post - it should have been you're - it was 1 AM !)
* Ancient-But-It-Works !

December 18th, 2008, 11:33 PM	#16
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Nice idea George, but how will a drive that will not boot on one PC boot on another? It would be far simpler to use a disc utility on his problem PC than to remove the drive and put it into another machine. While it wouldn't hurt to check jumpers, if it was working properly until he defragged, that means it was set properly to begin with. If his jumpers were incorrect it wouldn't have been working to begin with. It's like the idea someone had that his processor was overheating. Processors don't go along fine and randomly start overheating, expecially on something simple like a defrag... The chances his problem drive, under any circumstances, booting up on a different box are pretty slim...at best he would get safe mode even if the boxes are similar. The graphics drivers and chipsets would be likely be completely different and it wouldn't function. I suspect he may have a bad hard drive anyway. I hope I'm wrong, but it has the symptoms. It could go either way. Hopefully he'll get it fixed and let us know what happened.

December 19th, 2008, 07:45 AM	#18
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Most humbly to Mr. George Bean ! Or to put it in Aussie parlance, - Bloody Brilliant Mate ! IT WORKED !! Now the details -(only if your interested), I removed the offending C drive from PC-1 & plugged it into the other (working PC-2) as you suggested, and I put it on a secondary SATA bus. in case it would confuse it with the C drive which is an IDE. At switch-on IT AUTOMATICALLY DETECTED IT AS DRIVE F & STARTED A CHKDSK on the offending drive which took about 5 - 10 mins. - Thousands of entries corrected. - it ticked over like a high speed clock , but then on the last part (sect 5), it stopped, as it just said 0% completed. I left it for about ten minutes & then cancelled. Then it (PC-2) booted up on its normal C drive. I realised that 3 days ago, I had set PC-1 to do a scan on the offending drive on re-boot, before it failed , BUT, on re-boot, it did NOT do a scan, so that was when I decided to do a de-frag and the problems started. So I guess that is why it scanned automatically when fitted to PC-2. The curious thing is then why did it not do this in its original PC (same drive, same OS), instead of going into the loop at switch-on as described in my first post. Of course I then removed the drive & replaced it back into PC-1 and just after switch-on, it stopped again at the same option screen - normal, safe-mode etc., but this time when I selected normal it did a normal boot-up. I then ran a registry program - RegCure which found 460 problems and said it fixed them all ! I then ran it again & it said the same but with 39 problems. After doing this another 2 times the problems became zero. I then selected it to do another scan at boot-up, and then I re-booted it. However, it did a scan but again when it got to part 5 it again showed 0% progress for about 15 minutes so I cancelled & it booted up normally, and so far seems to be fine. I can only say thank you all very much for all you help in this saga which thankfully has a good ending. RonC.

December 19th, 2008, 10:39 AM	#19
George Bean Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 248	[QUOTE=Ron Cooper;980802] The curious thing is then why did it not do this in its original PC (same drive, same OS), instead of going into the loop at switch-on as described in my first post. windows has certain files it needs to access in a specific order to boot. when a pc is shut down unexpectedly these files are still on the hard drive but windows becomes confused as it does not read these files in the order it expects. this a a very simplifed explanation of why you get caught in the continual reboot loop. windows starts, looks for a file, does not find file, shuts down starts again, looks for file, does not find file.... etc. the quickest way to repari is run chkdsk with the /f command. the easiest way is to install the corrupted drive in a spare computer. the chkdsk will reorder the files the os needs to properly boot. this most common cause is windows being shut down unexpectedly. always selct shutdown form the start menu or hold the power button in for four seconds until your pc powers down to avoid confusing windows.

December 19th, 2008, 11:36 AM	#20
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Way to go George, well done.

December 19th, 2008, 02:49 PM	#21
George Bean Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 248	at some point either windows or your hard drive will fail. it is best to have a backup so there is no lost data and no downtime. there are several options and reveiw and choose what is best for your situation, i use acronis true image. i am not affialiated in any way shape or form with acronis, but the true image program has saved my a$$ more than once. two important features in an imaging program are being able to run the softwre from within windows and also the use of external usb and firewire drives. here is the process: from within windows start the true image program select the drive you want to image select a destination and name for the image choose full backup and a name for the image store your image on a portable drive in a safe environement the program has a point and click process for making a bootable disk for restoring images to restore an image when windows or your drive fails: verify your cd/dvdrom is the first boot device place your bootable cd into the drive the true image program will run form the cd and prompt you step by step it will ask what drive you want to restore and where the image file is located if windows becomes corrupted, a hard drive fails or your pc gets a virus it typically takes less than a half hour to restore an image.

December 19th, 2008, 03:47 PM	#22
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Thanks again George, very helpful advice. I forgot to mention though, in case you got the wrong impression, that I did always shut the thing down by holding the button for four seconds, but it still crashed. I'm puzzled as to why it did not go into the scan program when I originally scheduled it on the next boot-up. - ( With my old {A B I W }, Win 98 machine at work you simply click on "Scan for errors" & choose quick or thorough, & away she goes. - None of this palava about access rights and scheduling on the next boot-up !) I did notice though, that when it started the de-frag that the drive was very fragmented according to the red bars in the window, indicating to me that I should have defragged it more often. RonC. (Sorry for the grammar error in last post - it should have been you're - it was 1 AM !) Ancient-But-It-Works !