Multi Camera Editing and Work Flow at DVinfo.net

Darrell Sullivan · July 31st, 2003, 05:23 AM

I am trying out some different NLE packages and I am hoping I can get some input on the best package for multi camera editing. In particular I am trying to find the best way to edit together 2-4 cameras to create a video of a wedding ceremony or other event. I am really interested in something that would work like a director having a few monitors he is looking at and pressing a button to switch to a particular camera. I am attaching a mockup of what I am thinking of. Basically up to 4 video displays with a button for a different type of transition when switching to that camera. Surely something like this has to exist?

I haven't been able to figure out how to link to a picture in the message so here is a link to a mockup of what I am thinking about:
http://63.243.17.138/port1/multicam.gif

My idea is that you would be able to play the videos from their synchronized beginning at .5-4x and just click on the transition for the camera you want to switch to. You could also slide the timeline scrollbar and select a transition that way.

Don Bloom · July 31st, 2003, 06:32 AM

I've not seen anything quite like your mockup however depending on the NLE you're using there are programs out there to help make multi cam editing easier.

Let us know what NLE you're using then we'll be able to point you in a direction.
Don

Josh Frye · July 31st, 2003, 06:44 AM

I have to agree with Don. I personally have not seen this type of setup in SOFTWARE before. Most of the time this type of editing is done using hardware designed expressly for such a purpose, or by a standard timeline multi track based NLE.

I think it would be cool if you wrote such a program yourself. The mockup looked good. :)

Darrell Sullivan · July 31st, 2003, 07:01 AM

Hello Don,

Currently I am trying to use Vegas 4 to do the multi cam work. Of course since I am totally new at the whole NLE process I don't want to give any opinions because they would not be of value.

From what I have read there are three basic methods for doing this in Vegas. Cutting pieces out of the top layer and any secondary layers until the layer you want is visible would be one. Cuting and pasting the footage to a master layer would be another. This is really time consuming from my point of view. I know there is an Excalibur plug in that will allow you to put markers on the timeline with the track number you want to cut to and after finishing it will automatically do the cut and paste work for you. This is definitely an improvement, but I would like to see the footage in motion when I make the cuts. I also have trouble lining up the timeline in a frame by frame manner, but this is just a problem with unfamiliarity with the software.

I am considering putting together a DirectX program to play back up to four pieces of footage and record the timecode where I make the cuts and saving that data to a file and then use a Vegas script to read the data and do the appropriate cutting and pasting.

Josh Frye · July 31st, 2003, 07:05 AM

That program sounds promising. Let us know how that goes. Good luck.

Edward Troxel · July 31st, 2003, 07:50 AM

For an explanation of multi-cam editing methods in Vegas, read issue #9 of the Vegas Tips, Tricks, and Scripts Newsletter

Darrell Sullivan · July 31st, 2003, 07:56 AM

Hello Ed,

Thanks for the link. I had looked at it yesterday. The Excalibur option definitely makes it a lot easier, but doesn't quite do what I would like to do. I would like to have all the video running and be able to see the video from each source and just click on the transition effect for the source I want to switch to. So far nothing I have seen works quite that simply. It may be unrealistic to expect that, I'm not sure. I am going to look at trying to throw a prototype together this weekend since if I can do it I think it will save me a lot of time in the long run.

Bogdan Vaglarov · July 31st, 2003, 08:11 AM

Right now I'm looking for my NLE system.
I'm not ready do enter very high so my preferences are going may be to Canopus DV RaptorRT. The claim is that this real time card can handle up to 3 simultanious streams of video if you have the additional hardware Fire Wire card.
You need the Adobe Premiere bundle for that.

Check out the Canopus home pages. I'm not sure if that will work but as I'll soon have 2 DV cams available also was wondering for real time montage.

Don Bloom · July 31st, 2003, 08:25 AM

Actually, multi cam editing in Vegas is very simple ESPECIALLY with Excalibur.

The 1st thing to do in Vegas is use TRACK MOTION to size the 2 video track so they are both on the screen at once, that way you can determine where you want the cut. Excalibur makes it east to cut all at once and go back to a new MASTER TRACK.

Don

Edward Troxel · July 31st, 2003, 09:22 AM

As Don said, I DO watch all of the video sources at once. You just scale each of them down using Track Motion until they are all visible on the screen. Then as you play the timeline, all are visible. This technique is mentioned and illustrated at the tail end of the article.

Peter Jefferson · July 31st, 2003, 11:34 AM

theres an app which is called "multicam" check it out at www.dvt.com.au (thats the only link i know of. Its for use with Premiere, however the cost is a lil high or what it is IMO...

basically run your vid thru multicam, create your split points, import teh prject into Premiere and voila...

i still prefer the vegas method....

Darrell Sullivan · July 31st, 2003, 02:46 PM

Thanks for all of the input everyone.

I did not mean for this to sound like I was bashing Vegas or Excalibur. I am also evaluating Premier and I started with Vegas because it seems like it would be better to me. I just thought that this one function could be handled in an interface that I think would be quicker.

I will definitely try out Don's advice on the Track Motion function. I looked at the tutorial again and it doesn't really mention this. it is probably something that doesn't need to be mentioned if you are already familiar with the program. The one thing I saw in the tutorial that mentioned seeing all of the video required doing something with picture-in-picture that it said would require re-rendering which didn't sound optimal to me.

Thanks for all the help. I am looking forward to trying out the functions.

Edward Troxel · July 31st, 2003, 03:23 PM

You are correct that issue #9 does not tell HOW to make a PIP, just that I like to do so.

However, Issues 2, 3, and 4 all deal with creating PIPs via Track Motion.

Darrell Sullivan · August 1st, 2003, 05:23 AM

Good Morning Ed,

Thanks for the information. I think I am going to purchase a copy of Excalibur after taking the advice and setting up the Track Motion window last night. It is definitely a lot closer to what I am wanting and close enough that I won't bother writing my own program right now.

I am also going to try hooking up an external monitor for the preview and hopefully I can view the Motion Track in a larger format that way.

Thanks again, it is much apreciated.

Edward Troxel · August 1st, 2003, 07:12 AM

I will give you one more tip. If you find the framerate is too low when previewing multiple PIPs (and it WON'T be 29.97), you may want to render the PIP track and then add the rendered version on a separate track. This would be the track to view on the external monitor. Takes a little more time and disk space but is sometimes well worth it.

July 31st, 2003, 05:23 AM	#1
Darrell Sullivan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	Multi Camera Editing and Work Flow I am trying out some different NLE packages and I am hoping I can get some input on the best package for multi camera editing. In particular I am trying to find the best way to edit together 2-4 cameras to create a video of a wedding ceremony or other event. I am really interested in something that would work like a director having a few monitors he is looking at and pressing a button to switch to a particular camera. I am attaching a mockup of what I am thinking of. Basically up to 4 video displays with a button for a different type of transition when switching to that camera. Surely something like this has to exist? I haven't been able to figure out how to link to a picture in the message so here is a link to a mockup of what I am thinking about: http://63.243.17.138/port1/multicam.gif My idea is that you would be able to play the videos from their synchronized beginning at .5-4x and just click on the transition for the camera you want to switch to. You could also slide the timeline scrollbar and select a transition that way.

July 31st, 2003, 06:44 AM	#3
Josh Frye Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Berlin Germany Posts: 46	I have to agree with Don. I personally have not seen this type of setup in SOFTWARE before. Most of the time this type of editing is done using hardware designed expressly for such a purpose, or by a standard timeline multi track based NLE. I think it would be cool if you wrote such a program yourself. The mockup looked good. :) __________________ Cheers

July 31st, 2003, 07:01 AM	#4
Darrell Sullivan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	NLEs Used Hello Don, Currently I am trying to use Vegas 4 to do the multi cam work. Of course since I am totally new at the whole NLE process I don't want to give any opinions because they would not be of value. From what I have read there are three basic methods for doing this in Vegas. Cutting pieces out of the top layer and any secondary layers until the layer you want is visible would be one. Cuting and pasting the footage to a master layer would be another. This is really time consuming from my point of view. I know there is an Excalibur plug in that will allow you to put markers on the timeline with the track number you want to cut to and after finishing it will automatically do the cut and paste work for you. This is definitely an improvement, but I would like to see the footage in motion when I make the cuts. I also have trouble lining up the timeline in a frame by frame manner, but this is just a problem with unfamiliarity with the software. I am considering putting together a DirectX program to play back up to four pieces of footage and record the timecode where I make the cuts and saving that data to a file and then use a Vegas script to read the data and do the appropriate cutting and pasting.

July 31st, 2003, 07:05 AM	#5
Josh Frye Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Berlin Germany Posts: 46	That program sounds promising. Let us know how that goes. Good luck. __________________ Cheers

July 31st, 2003, 07:56 AM	#7
Darrell Sullivan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	Thanks for the link Hello Ed, Thanks for the link. I had looked at it yesterday. The Excalibur option definitely makes it a lot easier, but doesn't quite do what I would like to do. I would like to have all the video running and be able to see the video from each source and just click on the transition effect for the source I want to switch to. So far nothing I have seen works quite that simply. It may be unrealistic to expect that, I'm not sure. I am going to look at trying to throw a prototype together this weekend since if I can do it I think it will save me a lot of time in the long run.

July 31st, 2003, 06:32 AM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I've not seen anything quite like your mockup however depending on the NLE you're using there are programs out there to help make multi cam editing easier. Let us know what NLE you're using then we'll be able to point you in a direction. Don

July 31st, 2003, 07:50 AM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	For an explanation of multi-cam editing methods in Vegas, read issue #9 of the Vegas Tips, Tricks, and Scripts Newsletter

July 31st, 2003, 08:11 AM	#8
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Right now I'm looking for my NLE system. I'm not ready do enter very high so my preferences are going may be to Canopus DV RaptorRT. The claim is that this real time card can handle up to 3 simultanious streams of video if you have the additional hardware Fire Wire card. You need the Adobe Premiere bundle for that. Check out the Canopus home pages. I'm not sure if that will work but as I'll soon have 2 DV cams available also was wondering for real time montage.

July 31st, 2003, 08:25 AM	#9
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Actually, multi cam editing in Vegas is very simple ESPECIALLY with Excalibur. The 1st thing to do in Vegas is use TRACK MOTION to size the 2 video track so they are both on the screen at once, that way you can determine where you want the cut. Excalibur makes it east to cut all at once and go back to a new MASTER TRACK. Don

July 31st, 2003, 09:22 AM	#10
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	As Don said, I DO watch all of the video sources at once. You just scale each of them down using Track Motion until they are all visible on the screen. Then as you play the timeline, all are visible. This technique is mentioned and illustrated at the tail end of the article.

July 31st, 2003, 11:34 AM	#11
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	theres an app which is called "multicam" check it out at www.dvt.com.au (thats the only link i know of. Its for use with Premiere, however the cost is a lil high or what it is IMO... basically run your vid thru multicam, create your split points, import teh prject into Premiere and voila... i still prefer the vegas method....

July 31st, 2003, 02:46 PM	#12
Darrell Sullivan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	Thanks for all the input Thanks for all of the input everyone. I did not mean for this to sound like I was bashing Vegas or Excalibur. I am also evaluating Premier and I started with Vegas because it seems like it would be better to me. I just thought that this one function could be handled in an interface that I think would be quicker. I will definitely try out Don's advice on the Track Motion function. I looked at the tutorial again and it doesn't really mention this. it is probably something that doesn't need to be mentioned if you are already familiar with the program. The one thing I saw in the tutorial that mentioned seeing all of the video required doing something with picture-in-picture that it said would require re-rendering which didn't sound optimal to me. Thanks for all the help. I am looking forward to trying out the functions.

July 31st, 2003, 03:23 PM	#13
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	You are correct that issue #9 does not tell HOW to make a PIP, just that I like to do so. However, Issues 2, 3, and 4 all deal with creating PIPs via Track Motion.

August 1st, 2003, 05:23 AM	#14
Darrell Sullivan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	Thanks Ed Good Morning Ed, Thanks for the information. I think I am going to purchase a copy of Excalibur after taking the advice and setting up the Track Motion window last night. It is definitely a lot closer to what I am wanting and close enough that I won't bother writing my own program right now. I am also going to try hooking up an external monitor for the preview and hopefully I can view the Motion Track in a larger format that way. Thanks again, it is much apreciated.

August 1st, 2003, 07:12 AM	#15
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I will give you one more tip. If you find the framerate is too low when previewing multiple PIPs (and it WON'T be 29.97), you may want to render the PIP track and then add the rendered version on a separate track. This would be the track to view on the external monitor. Takes a little more time and disk space but is sometimes well worth it.