Frame mode flickers? at DVinfo.net

Michael Chen · June 25th, 2003, 06:51 PM

Hi all,
I recorded my footages on XL1s frame mode, everything's fine in avid xpress but when I output the footage onto the camera and play it on TV, it flickers.

I tried some footages recorded on interlaced mode and it was fine.

What could be wrong?
Hope that something could be done as I've just finished a short film on frame mode.

Don Donatello · June 27th, 2003, 03:13 PM

never heard of that before?
BUT if you shot FRAME mode ( progressive like) when you render as interlace it is still FRAME mode .. the 2 fields have not changed.
.. now rolling titles , if you pan a frame , their motion will be interlace ... and other motion that you created in editing will be interlace ( transitions) ... which usually results in smoother motion for titles etc.

i don't use avid but perhaps in their PROGRESSIVE settings there is a custom/preference that is telling it how to deinterlace the clip for progressive or perhaps the field order is not correct?? if there is BOTH should set it to NONE for progressive ( frame mode).

Michael Chen · June 27th, 2003, 06:38 PM

But I'm outputting the footage straight to my dv camera via firewire. The settings for progressive/interlace option is only available when I export it as a video file, its not there when I output it straight to dv camera.

I never hear of this problem either, maybe my eyes was playing tricks on me. Just want to check with others if this is a known problem, if not then i suspect that I have to go for an eye check.

Don Donatello · June 28th, 2003, 02:30 PM

so you are saying it is there when you preview to external monitor ? that you are seeing flicker ?
is this jerky movement type flicker ? of flickering screen ?
any chance of posting a clip ? .... if jerky motion .. try frame mode with camera shutter speed at 1/60 sec ........

check your project settings to make sure the field order is either progressive or lower field 1st ...

Michael Chen · June 28th, 2003, 11:19 PM

Hi Don,
I have outputted some of the footages on dv tape.
When I play it on a tv screen, it looks kinda flickering.
Its not a jerky movement.
Its more of a flickering screen , more noticeable on the top black bar. (I've mask it to 16:9) Its not really that serious, but its noticeable. I thought that it could be a problem with my tv screen, but when i see another footage shot on the interlace mode and it plays very smoothly, thats when I notice the problem.

However, it looks fine on a computer screen, so I cant post the flickering clip on computer as it does not inherit the problem.

Regarding the project settings, I don't think it has such option. It only allows me to set it as PAL or NTSC.
The only option for setting the interlace/progressive is when I am exporing it in avi files.

So , to simplify, the flickers is most noticeable at the top of the screen, the intersection of the black bar and the picture.
The rest of the picture seems fine , or not so noticeable.

Am i encountering some sort of x-files case here?

btw, Don, thanks for helping.

Zac Stein · June 28th, 2003, 11:30 PM

Havn't got something screwed up like PAL or NTSC project set wrong ? Or even frame rate problems, that will strobe and flicker as well.

You know if it is not that, i think it is a field order problem, i saw something similar to yours when top field first was selected instead of bottom field first... the reverse order did almost exactly what you are describing.

Zac

Michael Chen · June 28th, 2003, 11:35 PM

I am pretty sure I didn't screw up the NTSC/PAL settings.

I set it to PAL, which is what I shot on.
Hmm, regarding the field option, but i do not get the option when I export it to tape.

only when i export them to avi files.
and the project settings only allow me to choose either PAL or NTSC. Weird.

Zac Stein · June 28th, 2003, 11:40 PM

Field order will be a selection in the project settings, it must be floating around the advanced section maybe.

It is possible that your tv can not handle the severe contrast changes between the black edge, and the colour corrected footage, have you run, reduce interlace flicker and broadcast safe filters?

Zac

PS. since you are in malaysia, have you even dealt with biz-max, any opinions?

Michael Chen · June 30th, 2003, 04:39 AM

As of yet, I still could not find the field order in the project settings.

Btw, from what I understand is, the transfer to tape option theoretically does not alter the original image right?

Bout reduce interlace, I thought I shot in frame and its not suppose to have flickers.
Someone gotta enlighten me on this.

Biz-max, i am not too sure, whats that? is it a tv selling program? It sounds familiar.

June 25th, 2003, 06:51 PM	#1
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Frame mode flickers? Hi all, I recorded my footages on XL1s frame mode, everything's fine in avid xpress but when I output the footage onto the camera and play it on TV, it flickers. I tried some footages recorded on interlaced mode and it was fine. What could be wrong? Hope that something could be done as I've just finished a short film on frame mode.

June 27th, 2003, 03:13 PM	#2
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	never heard of that before? BUT if you shot FRAME mode ( progressive like) when you render as interlace it is still FRAME mode .. the 2 fields have not changed. .. now rolling titles , if you pan a frame , their motion will be interlace ... and other motion that you created in editing will be interlace ( transitions) ... which usually results in smoother motion for titles etc. i don't use avid but perhaps in their PROGRESSIVE settings there is a custom/preference that is telling it how to deinterlace the clip for progressive or perhaps the field order is not correct?? if there is BOTH should set it to NONE for progressive ( frame mode).

June 27th, 2003, 06:38 PM	#3
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	But I'm outputting the footage straight to my dv camera via firewire. The settings for progressive/interlace option is only available when I export it as a video file, its not there when I output it straight to dv camera. I never hear of this problem either, maybe my eyes was playing tricks on me. Just want to check with others if this is a known problem, if not then i suspect that I have to go for an eye check.

June 28th, 2003, 02:30 PM	#4
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	so you are saying it is there when you preview to external monitor ? that you are seeing flicker ? is this jerky movement type flicker ? of flickering screen ? any chance of posting a clip ? .... if jerky motion .. try frame mode with camera shutter speed at 1/60 sec ........ check your project settings to make sure the field order is either progressive or lower field 1st ...

June 28th, 2003, 11:19 PM	#5
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Hi Don, I have outputted some of the footages on dv tape. When I play it on a tv screen, it looks kinda flickering. Its not a jerky movement. Its more of a flickering screen , more noticeable on the top black bar. (I've mask it to 16:9) Its not really that serious, but its noticeable. I thought that it could be a problem with my tv screen, but when i see another footage shot on the interlace mode and it plays very smoothly, thats when I notice the problem. However, it looks fine on a computer screen, so I cant post the flickering clip on computer as it does not inherit the problem. Regarding the project settings, I don't think it has such option. It only allows me to set it as PAL or NTSC. The only option for setting the interlace/progressive is when I am exporing it in avi files. So , to simplify, the flickers is most noticeable at the top of the screen, the intersection of the black bar and the picture. The rest of the picture seems fine , or not so noticeable. Am i encountering some sort of x-files case here? btw, Don, thanks for helping.

June 28th, 2003, 11:30 PM	#6
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Havn't got something screwed up like PAL or NTSC project set wrong ? Or even frame rate problems, that will strobe and flicker as well. You know if it is not that, i think it is a field order problem, i saw something similar to yours when top field first was selected instead of bottom field first... the reverse order did almost exactly what you are describing. Zac

June 28th, 2003, 11:35 PM	#7
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	I am pretty sure I didn't screw up the NTSC/PAL settings. I set it to PAL, which is what I shot on. Hmm, regarding the field option, but i do not get the option when I export it to tape. only when i export them to avi files. and the project settings only allow me to choose either PAL or NTSC. Weird.

June 28th, 2003, 11:40 PM	#8
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Field order will be a selection in the project settings, it must be floating around the advanced section maybe. It is possible that your tv can not handle the severe contrast changes between the black edge, and the colour corrected footage, have you run, reduce interlace flicker and broadcast safe filters? Zac PS. since you are in malaysia, have you even dealt with biz-max, any opinions?

June 30th, 2003, 04:39 AM	#9
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	As of yet, I still could not find the field order in the project settings. Btw, from what I understand is, the transfer to tape option theoretically does not alter the original image right? Bout reduce interlace, I thought I shot in frame and its not suppose to have flickers. Someone gotta enlighten me on this. Biz-max, i am not too sure, whats that? is it a tv selling program? It sounds familiar.