Premiere or Vegas

[Peter Ferling]

Originally Posted by Eric Shepherd

...Newtek SpeedEDIT is pretty sweet and I don't know of any life altering problems with that one. ;)

Only issue I hear is a slight delay with the playback head in response to the spacebar. Which happens regardless of SD or HD material.

SpeedEDIT uses background render to avoid buffer issues, so does liquid, which I hear also does well. I have a Video Toaster 3, and have thought about going back to uncompressed. You only need fast disks and storage is cheap these days. VT5 is not out yet.

Vegas uses a better proxy estimation than premieres "draft" mode. You can reduce the image in vegas as a compromise to keep editing RT. It's just a very different interface. V8 now has 32bit, but at the cost of killing any decent playback. However, I have used Vegas to render a few Premiere projects that crashed. AFF is good feature.

I think I FCP will be a shorter learning curve.

[Eric Shepherd]

Maybe an upgrade to VT4 would be the way to go then?

[Peter Ferling]

No, VT4 is still limited to SD. The only real advantage to a VT system is for live production. I don't as much of that anymore. However, what I do like about VT3 is the application skins that mimic real hardware devices (like adobe's onLocation). Which makes for great presentation when editing with clients. VT5 is going to have SpeedEDIT as it's editor.

I'm also seeing other benefits of having a mac workstation on hand (compatibility with other studios, etc.). So I think my decision is justified.

[Eric Shepherd]

Ahh I see..

Or you could run OSx86 and run FCP on a PC, since Macs are basically PCs at this point.. *evil grin*

Eric :)

[Peter Ferling]

I've already read up on OSx86 (I've used linux, Ubuntu is my fav -so I am familiar with tweaking). However, I'm just too busy. From a business decision, I need support and warranty.

There is a shop about an hour away that has the quad MacPro available for customers to try out. I've been told to bring my camera and will have all day to cut a project on it if I want.

However, in keeping with this thread, if I were to stick with a PC solution in PPro vs Vegas. It would appear that Vegas provides the best guarantee for stability and getting the job done. CS3 may require a significant patch to address the issues I've described. However, in regards to how they've addressed patches for CS2 (i.e. none), I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Mike Teutsch]

It is hard to judge any editing system based on just comments of those who have had issues with it. There are thousands and thousands of Adobe Premiere users out there and they and I would not keep buying it if they continually had problems.

As far as updates go, Adobe CS3 has manual and automatic updates and I have gotten several since my installation, just a few months ago!

The Adobe CS3 is about as comprehensive and all inclusive as you can find in an editing package. It includes the industry standards of After Effects Pro, and Photoshop CS3 Extended, along with a dozen or so other items such as On Location and Ultra.

With CS3 you can do most anything YOU are capable of doing. I have a friend here who works at a local TV station. The station uses CS2 and now CS3 as their software.

Just remember that most of those who will post responses to these questions, will be those who have had issues. It's just like those who post problems with their cameras. You never see anyone start a thread that says, "OK, it's one year now and no problems with my camera!" "How about everyone else?" It will always be those who have had problems who will start the post.

If all computers were exactly the same with all of the same components, there would be no problems. And, hardware is just the start. You have to add all the drivers from various places too. That can make any program misbehave.

Just a thought from another user.

M

[K. Tessman]

I'll chime in here. I've finished cutting a feature on Premiere Pro (2), and I've previously cut a feature-length project on FCP. My standard line is that I'm generally platform/application-agnostic. In terms of functionality, they're very close; I would expect an FCP user to be able to sit down in front of PPro and start cutting, and vice-versa.

(I've never used Vegas myself, but those I know who have like it quite a bit. That said, I don't know anyone who has used it for a large long-form project, or in a relatively complicated post workflow.)

I've experienced my share of issues with PPro, but then I certainly experienced an equal share of issues with FCP. Neither is perfect. It's the price you pay, I think, for being able to cut a feature-length project on a desktop machine.

PPro is certainly appealing in its integration and interoperability with other Adobe products, particularly After Effects. Being able to import an edited PPro project into AE for 32-bit floating-point colour-correction complete with masking and precise keyframing and other finishing is very nice. Using Cineform allows for what can probably be objectively demonstrated to be the highest-quality intermediate/workflow on a desktop.

The one bit of advice I can offer in general to anyone regardless of platform or application(s) is to know your workflow. Plan carefully, and then when you think you've got it covered, plan some more. Test everything you can, understand the basic technical underpinnings, and know what limitations or workarounds you may run into. Because enough other things are going to pop up down the road that you'll at least want to not have to worry about the things you do have control over going in.

For basic editing, such as your case seems to entail, I wouldn't expect to have any problems with PPro, and certainly none of the traumatic ones that have been listed earlier in this thread.

[Edward Klein]

Thanks to all of you who've responded.

I'm currently fighting Avid to get a project finished. Once I finalize this, I'll be checking out demos of Vegas & Premiere. I'll let you all know what we decide.

Thanks again.

Edward

[Eric Shepherd]

Good luck Edward, and cheers to you for trying to pull away from the death grip of Avid and their continuing quest to sell hardware for stuff that should be able to be with software alone (read: every other NLE on the market) :)

Eric

[Peter Ferling]

I agree. As I've said before,

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

....If all computers were exactly the same with all of the same components, there would be no problems. And, hardware is just the start. You have to add all the drivers from various places too. That can make any program misbehave.
M

That hits the nail on the head for getting a MacPro with FCP. Besides the fact that I did have both workstations with only, I repeat, only CS3 and XP installed, and still verified the problems.

If I wasn't having issues, I wouldn't be posting them. True. As I've said before, this is only my experience on my hardware. Despite the fact that the adobe forums are filled with others with the same issues. I can only go by my own experience.

I've just wrapped up my twentieth HD project in three months on CS3 (I cut in-house corporate media for about 12 marketing managers and trainers, they keep me very busy). Despite my shortcomings, I've realized a good ROI. The cost of outsourcing just one project is nearly times the cost of the software upgrade.

I've used Premiere for many years, since v 5.2 with a pinnacle DV200, VTNT, and DVStorm2. Up until CS2, it was smooth sailing. I have a Dell 650 precision workstation that is five years old, and all versions of Premiere up to 1.5.1 run perfectly on that machine.

It's quite obvious to see where I stand on this issue. Obviously CS3 does not work well on Dell 650's and BOXX 7400's. Therefore I should purchase another workstation. If I'm going to do that, then I might as well get a Mac.

OK folks, at least we can agree one thing. Threads getting old. Good luck Edward.

[Marcus van Bavel]

Originally Posted by Edward Klein

Peter's list of shortcomings is making me think seriously about Vegas. The major downside of Vegas, at this point, is having to use Raylight to convert P2 files.

By the way you don't have to "convert" P2 files using Raylight, you can drag the MXF files directly into the project.