120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

[Jonathan Levin]

Hi everyone.

I started testing the D850 with one of its 120fps options. Apparently when an external recorder like an Atomos is connected, you only get 60fps. Without and recording to XQD, true 120FPS. Have a look at this:

FCP.co Forum :: Topic: 120fps slo mo???? (1/1)

I was hoping to get full sensor with 120fps. One thing I did not try was removing all the cards from the camera first and then record to the Ninja Flame. Maybe someone else can test this theory.

Jonathan

[John Wiley]

I've been looking to get confirmation on this for ages as I've got a shoot coming up where sponsor obligations are forcing me to shoot on a D850 - and I really don't want to be stuck with 8bit h.264 for slow motion.

The only thing I'd read so far is that HDMI triggering is disabled in 120p mode - and based on that, it sounded as though the camera could output the 120p, but that you have to engage recording from the Atomos, rather than from the camera. However my interpretation of this could have been wrong.

Have you tried to start/stop recording directly on the Flame, rather than the camera, and checked how that compares?

[Jonathan Levin]

Hi John.

I can confirm with my discussion with Nikon (Level 2) that the D850 records to the xqd card @ 120fps, with playback @30p But yes h.264, not sure of bit depth, but guessing 8.

I spoke with Atomos support and they said that due to transfer rate limitations of HDMI, that the Atomos Ninja Flame can only receive up to a 60p signal via HDMI. Actually, HDMI was never really intended for this kind of workload. It just happens to work with normal recording situations, 24, 30.

What puzzles me is when I connect the Flame to the D850 and I have the D850 set to shoot slo mo 120fps 30p, why the signal to the Flame is 60p (59.94ish).

This leads me to think that there is some processing going on in camera beyond the HDMI link, if that makes any sense. I'd love to see what you came up with if you test this out. My (our) goal is to get that 120fps signal to the Atomos recorder, and get that ProRes xxx file.

I just don't know if it is physically possible. And yes, I ONLY tested using the Record start/stop on the Atomos. What I did not test was pressing record on camera and then record on Atomos. With or without the HDMI trigger.

That could be an interesting test, but I am getting ready for a big project next week so I won't be able to test this.

Let me know what you come up with if you dod any testing.

Cheers.

Jonathan

[John Wiley]

That's a very strange thing for Atomos to say; I mean, why would they include 1080p120 on their HDMI recorders and then claim that HDMI is incapable of doing this?

Newer version's of HDMI should be able to support 120p, but I have no idea what sort of hardware is in the D850.

[Jonathan Levin]

Hi John.

Could you point me in the direction that theAtomos hdmi recorders can do120fps. Now you got me really curious. I know my tests have been less than scientific. I wonder if we are the only 2 trying to figure this out

[John Wiley]

It's listed on the Atomos website in the product specifications (under "Supported Codecs & playback":

https://www.atomos.com/ninja-flame

I wonder which cameras actually are capable of outputting 120p over HDMI? If there aren't any, then this feature seems to be completely superfluous.

[Gary Huff]

Because they copied the supported codec resolutions and frame rates from the SDI-based units. It doesn’t claim you can get 120p over HDMI.

[Jonathan Levin]

“suported hdmi looped out” Not sure what that means.

Another thing I thought of: With my D800, part of the set up procedure was to make sure that no CF cards were in the camera when recordin to an Atomos Ninja BLADE. I’m not sure why, since rhere were a few occasions that I forgot to remove them with no noticeable affect.

So I’m wondering what would result removing cards from the D850 prior to trying to recording higher frame rates. Some sort of internal switching going on? Again, I’d test this out if I wasn’t on assignment next week. May or may not make a bit of difference.

Thanks for your replies.

[John Wiley]

So I've just received our first unit from Nikon for testing and can confirm that the HDMI out does not do the full 100/120fps in slo-mo mode.

At first this really annoyed me, until I realised it might actually overcome one of my workflow problems - wanting slow-mo but still needing audio. With the Shogun Inferno (or Shogun Flame or Ninja Inferno, plus I think the upcoming Ninja V too) you have the XLR adapter which means you're plugging the mics directly into the recorder. So while the Camera is recording a 100/120fps file with no sound, the Shogun can record a 50/60p file with sound. Very handy for those times when you're shooting B-roll and then suddenly you know you need a sound bite, so instead of having to go to the menus to change frame rate and probably miss the moment, all I have to do is start rolling on the Atomos.

[Jack Zhang]

What you're forgetting here is that 120p isn't just for slow-mo...

"Professional Gamers" want a recorder that can record 120fps for gameplay footage. (Yes, they're that egotistical.)

Atomos fulfilled that need first. Camera manufacturers don't see the need for 120fps unless it's related to 3D, which has already bust.