Cine Nikon

Jeff Zimmerman · February 22nd, 2013, 11:42 AM

Found this interesting page about Cine Nikon movie cameras. Should they step back in the arena and make a cinema camera?

Nikon movie & cine cameras

Panagiotis Raris · February 22nd, 2013, 12:02 PM

they have the technology and the lenses; no reason they should not. i would be happy with a DLSR format with XLR's, 1080 60P, 50Mb+ codec, full clean HDMI out manual modes with their 3D tracking AF, and 4:2:2 color. i'd pay $5-7k for it in fact.

Jeff Zimmerman · February 22nd, 2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panagiotis Raris

they have the technology and the lenses; no reason they should not. i would be happy with a DLSR format with XLR's, 1080 60P, 50Mb+ codec, full clean HDMI out manual modes with their 3D tracking AF, and 4:2:2 color. i'd pay $5-7k for it in fact.

Same here. Something similar to the Panasonic AF100 and Canon C100. Both are nice cameras but have there drawbacks. If I could get my D800 with XLR's, maybe vary-ND's and 1080p60 that would be a dream.

Marcus Martell · February 23rd, 2013, 02:33 AM

Jeff, wich drawbacks for The panny?

Duane Adam · February 23rd, 2013, 09:30 AM

Even though I'm an audio guy I could overlook the lack of xlr inputs in exchange for letting that gorgeous d800 sensor translate to 10 bit video in higher resolution, even if it was only to the hdmi out.

Jack Zhang · February 24th, 2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panagiotis Raris

they have the technology and the lenses; no reason they should not. i would be happy with a DLSR format with XLR's, 1080 60P, 50Mb+ codec, full clean HDMI out manual modes with their 3D tracking AF, and 4:2:2 color. i'd pay $5-7k for it in fact.

The key winner for me added to that list would be Global Shutter and HD-SDI. If they could get sensor tech cheap enough and still have excellent dynamic range and SNR, that would be the winner.

Heck, if they include XAVC in a Nikon Cine Cam, that would satisfy the 1080p60 and 4k60p right there.

Jeff Zimmerman · February 26th, 2013, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Martell

Jeff, wich drawbacks for The panny?

Don't get me wrong I really like the panny. I didn't like the 2x crop factor basically taking a 16mm lens to almost 35mm. Also there recent update, which cost $250 should have been free. It fixes a lot of things that I think should have been included in the first place. The built-in ND's and XLR's are a huge plus.

Thanks Duane about the audio guy view. Recently, and I speak humbly. A lot of people have been taking notice of the footage I've shot with the Nikon D800. I've taken two calls after hours from producers thanking me for the awesome footage. In the past that would have been just quick email. There actually calling and talking to me about how I made it look so good.

Maybe Nikon is just content with what they have done with the D800, D600 and soon D7100. There certainly grabbed my attention as I left a full Canon setup to adopt the D800.

Also I'm considering a mosaic engineering filter for the D800 just to insure the image stays at the highest quality.

Let the D800 good times roll!

Alex Humphrey · March 4th, 2013, 08:30 PM

I would buy one if:

1. A Full Frame CCD not CMOS! CMOS could be okay if they can counteract the CMOS jello vision. Looked at a $10,000 Panasonic HPX-300 series with lens, and I couldn't use it for sports, action or even steadycam work. Might as well have been a $200 camcorder. Panasonic even recommends to not have any motion from left/right.. only in/out... so basically a talking head camcorder... yea! NOT!

2. 24p only for me thank you. By all means have 25p, 30p 50i 60i & 60p. Just make sure it has a 24p at 1/48th shutter option somewhere for me! Sort of given these days. BluRay and DVD is 60i or 24p only in NTSC regions. PAL and SECOM is 50i and 25p (80% or more of the world lives in PAL or SECOM)

Map of the world: File:PAL-NTSC-SECAM.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. Windows & Mac standard file formats... Drag and drop from off the shelf card (SDHC or SSD like on Blackmagic Designs) to computer ready to edit.

4. Variable frame rate for 24 thru 120.

5. Variable bit rate in STANDARD video editing gormats HDV 720p, HDV, XDCAM EX, THRU something 100 MBS DVC PROHD or other similar off the shelf format that current video editor programs handle.

6. Edge enhancement user adjustable, including down to OFF.

7. User updatable firmware.

8. Front end that can use Nikon lenses (DUH) but swap out for PL mount lens etc.

9. Can record as long as there is power.. no 20-30 minute use time and 20-30 minute cool down time... LAME.

10. Adjustable Gama/color matrix so users can shoot video for straight to broadcast or pre gama adjustment for special projects/indie film etc to match Kodak or other film stock.

I'm not asking for too much am I? :)

Duane Adam · March 4th, 2013, 10:09 PM

I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I've bought my last 1080 video camera-ever.

I also just bought my first 4K camera. I wish it was a Nikon but unfortunately that isn't an option. Really hope they pick up the pace.

Jeff Zimmerman · March 5th, 2013, 04:34 PM

You remind me of my friend. Last fall he bought is first Red Cinema camera. After a few months I asked him if it was worth the investment. He said "yes and no." "Yes" because it gives him a very nice and natural look to work with. But "no" because most of his clients don't have the need or demand for 4k. Most are not willing to pay extra for it. Once in a while he gets a client that needs 4k but its like 1 in 10.

If you have clients that are willing to pay for it and you need to upgrade, 4k is the future. I know for myself it's a year or two away. Most shows I'm putting together are on tight budgets and are happy with the DSLR look. I haven't even mentioned 4k yet. 4k, 16-bit, raw (Red, DNG) codecs. Very nice!

Duane Adam · March 5th, 2013, 04:56 PM

Anyone who's dropped a hi-rez jpeg into a timeline knows you don't have to watch on a 4K display to experience the effect of higher resolution. 4k displays will only make that better.

My clients don't know 4K from y2k but they react when I show them something jaw dropping. I also use the same footage for different projects so being able collect 4k clips now gives me a running start. I hadn't seen 4k until a couple of months ago but once I did it ruined me for HD.

Jack Zhang · March 5th, 2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Humphrey

I would buy one if:

1. A Full Frame CCD not CMOS! CMOS could be okay if they can counteract the CMOS jello vision. Looked at a $10,000 Panasonic HPX-300 series with lens, and I couldn't use it for sports, action or even steadycam work. Might as well have been a $200 camcorder. Panasonic even recommends to not have any motion from left/right.. only in/out... so basically a talking head camcorder... yea! NOT!

I feel you with the HPX300 having absolute crap sensors. The Sony F55 is a Global Shutter CMOS which means there is zero jellovision. This does come with a sacrifice of dynamic range, but I feel there isn't much noise from the samples I've seen. It's all about getting the costs down for that technology.

Bill Bruner · March 6th, 2013, 06:39 AM

That R8/R10 picture certainly brings back memories. I started out as a Super 8 shooter at film school back in the '70s. The hot cameras were Beaulieus, followed by Braun Nizo, Canon, Nikon and a few others.

I couldn't afford any of the high end cameras, so I bought a Chinon Pacific 12SMR with step frame an intervalometer, 18fps, 24fps and 36fps slow motion, built-in lap dissolve, a built-in ND filter, a variable speed 12x parfocal power zoom, a mic jack for sync sound with manual gain control, a headphone jack and a VU meter.

Loved that camera. If only manufacturers would put these features into an affordable camera today :)

February 22nd, 2013, 11:42 AM	#1
Jeff Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton, Colorado Posts: 386	Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon Found this interesting page about Cine Nikon movie cameras. Should they step back in the arena and make a cinema camera? Nikon movie & cine cameras Attached Thumbnails __________________ Jeff Zimmerman • Love what I do • Colorado + North America www.m3films.com

February 22nd, 2013, 12:02 PM	#2
Panagiotis Raris Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Reading, PA USA and Athens, Greece Posts: 269	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon they have the technology and the lenses; no reason they should not. i would be happy with a DLSR format with XLR's, 1080 60P, 50Mb+ codec, full clean HDMI out manual modes with their 3D tracking AF, and 4:2:2 color. i'd pay $5-7k for it in fact.

February 23rd, 2013, 02:33 AM	#4
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon Jeff, wich drawbacks for The panny?

February 23rd, 2013, 09:30 AM	#5
Duane Adam Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilroy, CA Posts: 398	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon Even though I'm an audio guy I could overlook the lack of xlr inputs in exchange for letting that gorgeous d800 sensor translate to 10 bit video in higher resolution, even if it was only to the hdmi out.

March 4th, 2013, 08:30 PM	#8
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon I would buy one if: 1. A Full Frame CCD not CMOS! CMOS could be okay if they can counteract the CMOS jello vision. Looked at a $10,000 Panasonic HPX-300 series with lens, and I couldn't use it for sports, action or even steadycam work. Might as well have been a $200 camcorder. Panasonic even recommends to not have any motion from left/right.. only in/out... so basically a talking head camcorder... yea! NOT! 2. 24p only for me thank you. By all means have 25p, 30p 50i 60i & 60p. Just make sure it has a 24p at 1/48th shutter option somewhere for me! Sort of given these days. BluRay and DVD is 60i or 24p only in NTSC regions. PAL and SECOM is 50i and 25p (80% or more of the world lives in PAL or SECOM) Map of the world: File:PAL-NTSC-SECAM.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 3. Windows & Mac standard file formats... Drag and drop from off the shelf card (SDHC or SSD like on Blackmagic Designs) to computer ready to edit. 4. Variable frame rate for 24 thru 120. 5. Variable bit rate in STANDARD video editing gormats HDV 720p, HDV, XDCAM EX, THRU something 100 MBS DVC PROHD or other similar off the shelf format that current video editor programs handle. 6. Edge enhancement user adjustable, including down to OFF. 7. User updatable firmware. 8. Front end that can use Nikon lenses (DUH) but swap out for PL mount lens etc. 9. Can record as long as there is power.. no 20-30 minute use time and 20-30 minute cool down time... LAME. 10. Adjustable Gama/color matrix so users can shoot video for straight to broadcast or pre gama adjustment for special projects/indie film etc to match Kodak or other film stock. I'm not asking for too much am I? :)

March 4th, 2013, 10:09 PM	#9
Duane Adam Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilroy, CA Posts: 398	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I've bought my last 1080 video camera-ever. I also just bought my first 4K camera. I wish it was a Nikon but unfortunately that isn't an option. Really hope they pick up the pace.

March 5th, 2013, 04:34 PM	#10
Jeff Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton, Colorado Posts: 386	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon You remind me of my friend. Last fall he bought is first Red Cinema camera. After a few months I asked him if it was worth the investment. He said "yes and no." "Yes" because it gives him a very nice and natural look to work with. But "no" because most of his clients don't have the need or demand for 4k. Most are not willing to pay extra for it. Once in a while he gets a client that needs 4k but its like 1 in 10. If you have clients that are willing to pay for it and you need to upgrade, 4k is the future. I know for myself it's a year or two away. Most shows I'm putting together are on tight budgets and are happy with the DSLR look. I haven't even mentioned 4k yet. 4k, 16-bit, raw (Red, DNG) codecs. Very nice! __________________ Jeff Zimmerman • Love what I do • Colorado + North America www.m3films.com

March 5th, 2013, 04:56 PM	#11
Duane Adam Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilroy, CA Posts: 398	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon Anyone who's dropped a hi-rez jpeg into a timeline knows you don't have to watch on a 4K display to experience the effect of higher resolution. 4k displays will only make that better. My clients don't know 4K from y2k but they react when I show them something jaw dropping. I also use the same footage for different projects so being able collect 4k clips now gives me a running start. I hadn't seen 4k until a couple of months ago but once I did it ruined me for HD.

March 6th, 2013, 06:39 AM	#13
Bill Bruner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sunny California Posts: 513	Re: Cine Nikon - Cinema Cameras by Nikon That R8/R10 picture certainly brings back memories. I started out as a Super 8 shooter at film school back in the '70s. The hot cameras were Beaulieus, followed by Braun Nizo, Canon, Nikon and a few others. I couldn't afford any of the high end cameras, so I bought a Chinon Pacific 12SMR with step frame an intervalometer, 18fps, 24fps and 36fps slow motion, built-in lap dissolve, a built-in ND filter, a variable speed 12x parfocal power zoom, a mic jack for sync sound with manual gain control, a headphone jack and a VU meter. Loved that camera. If only manufacturers would put these features into an affordable camera today :)