Sanyo HD2 vs. Canon TX1 at DVinfo.net

Peter Solmssen · May 1st, 2007, 05:45 PM

Since there have not been many detailed reviews of these cameras, I decided to buy both and do my own very unscientific tests. If I began with any bias, it would have been toward the Sanyo, since I have been cheerfully using the HD since it came out.

The HD series has been commented on extensively in these and other pages, so I would only say that the HD2 is an improvement, with better low light capability and less noise, but otherwise pleasantly familiar. It does have one little bug; when shooting stills against the light, the screen gets bluish and washed out when you half-press the button. This is annoying, but doesn't affect the picture. I have had two, and they both did it, so it is a design problem, not a lemon.

The TX1 is an intriguing variation on the small HD hybrid idea that Sanyo pioneered. The few reviewers have commented negatively on the ergonomics, but they didn't bother me -- maybe because I am used to the vertical format. I actually prefer the two triggers in different places; with the Sanyo, I was still pushing the wrong button after a year of use.

The Canon picture quality, especially of the stills, is very pleasing. It is soft and clean in a good way -- looks a lot like film. The controls are adequate, though not as complete as on the Sanyo. The great advantages are the small size, the steel case with the retracting lens, and the excellent image stabilization. (The image stabilization on the Sanyo is useless: it degrades the image and makes the insufficiently wide angle even less wide -- serious problems for a small camera with a long zoom).

The Canon has been much criticized for using Mjpeg. It doesn't bother me; it is easy to edit and I have yet to use up an 8GB card in a session. For my purposes (shooting for viewing on an HDTV), the Canon is working out well. My only issues with the TX1 are the small screen, and my inability, so far, to jury rig a wide angle attachment for the tiny, retracting lens.

Lynne Whelden · May 1st, 2007, 07:07 PM

Your observations are much appreciated. I've posed questions before from the standpoint of a backpacker who doesn't want to carry an extra ounce but still wants to shoot HD. My peculiar needs are simple but include good audio capabilities, as well as ability to shoot with a good wide-angle lens. Currently the Sony HC-3 fits the bill but when I'm all decked out with extra batteries, tripod, extra tape, etc. I'm close to 4 pounds. Doesn't sound like much but when you're on the trail (only coming into town to resupply) for several months at a time, that's dead weight. So keep the comparisons coming!

David Tamés · May 7th, 2007, 01:15 PM

Compact size is the key with the TX1. I was surprized how good the stereo sound was, both for recording the birds in the trees in the back yard and someone talking close to the camera. It's no substitute for a real video camera or good audio recorder, but when size and weight are the critical factors you want to optimize, this little camera might be it. I purchased one as a ready at any moment take with me everywhere kind of camera. It's no substitue for my HDV camcorder or D-SLR, but I can't take those everywhere I go, so the TX1 is there for those moments when those other cameras are not and I need to shoot something sponteneously. I'm not crazy about the image quality, but I understand the trade-offs the designers and engineers had to make to delivery such a tiny camera at the $500(US) price point.

Andrew Lings · May 8th, 2007, 04:51 AM

Guys,

Am too a Sanyo and TX1 user, unfortunately my HD1 was dropped and then needed repair, only problem is I can't find where I've put it!

Anyway, due to dissapointment with HD1, low light etc, have gone for the TX1, the photos are excellent, another league to Sanyo's and lthough the video is excellent(apart from memory size!!) I've noticed a couple of things,

Purple/smear streaking(ccd effect) is very excessive and is evident in very bright sunlight in all sorts of circumstances, off flag poles, water reflection, all over the place. Also, if shooting into bright sunlight the colour of the scene is almost completely purple, complete burn-out.

Have you guys found the same but to a limited extent, or is my cam faulty?

These hd hybrids are becoming an absolute nightmare! and was also wondering if this is why Canon delayed ie to try and fix/minimise the problem.

I got my cam off e-bay and cant get my head around sending it all the way back to HK!!

Jack Hanson · May 8th, 2007, 08:12 AM

I too was concerned about the reviewers comments about the ergonomics as I have big hands. When I got my camera I had no trouble holding it! Be aware when you purchase a large capacity memory chip for this camera, @ 8gb's storage you need no less than a class 4 speed rating in order to avoid filling up the buffer (speed class2) after only 25 seconds of shooting @ the highest settings. Kingston just came out with a 8gb class 6 card and I will report results after I get my card.
For the price and size of this camera I am totally pleased with both the stills and the video. I view all of my work on a Sony 60" sxrd hd tv. BTW Samsonite makes a semi rigid belt case that fits this camera perfectly so I carry mine all the time so I'll never miss that "photo oportunity".

David Tamés · May 9th, 2007, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Hanson

I too was concerned about the reviewers comments about the ergonomics as I have big hands. When I got my camera I had no trouble holding it!

After several days of using my new TX1, I got used to it, but I still find handling a challenge, more in terms of not all the controls are available on the body while shooting (instead are buried in menus), for example there's an assignable button, but you can't assign it to many things you might want to assign it to, for example, turning face recognition on and off. Overall the 720p images are acceptable for what it is, at least until the next little camera comes out. The first video I've shot with it is described here: kino-eye.com/2007/05/08/tx1-test/.

Jack Hanson · May 18th, 2007, 05:07 PM

With the Canon TX1 you will need an 8gb card if you want to shoot HD. Be sure it has a speed class rating of 6 (six) anything less will not allow you to capture @720p contniuously.You will be able to record a file of no longer than 16 minutes b4 the card has to stop and write. So just watch the time indicator and be ready to start shooting again after a breif(10seconds) pause. BTW the battery will record no more than a total of 37 minutes at this level, some what less if you are zooming a lot. The only card I have found that is both 8gb and speed class rating of 6 is made by Kingston.

Good Shooting

Stefan Hartmann · May 18th, 2007, 07:34 PM

I Must say,the stillpictures from the TX1 are much much better than the still pictures of the HD2 !

The HD2 pics are all very noisy also in good daylight !

It seems the HD2 was only optimized on taking movies,
but the still picture section is so noisy, one just can´t believe it...

Otherwise the movie mode of the TX1 is also very noisy and
with the MJPEG codec more than nonusable !
Think about how much storage you need.
Okay, maybe you will buy enough 8 Gbytes cards, but
to save this all to harddisc space later will clog up
your harddiscs very fast..

I still have got in my notebook
just only a 60 GB harddisk, where I only
have about 2 to 5 Gbytes of free space usually,
so I could not store much video before
burning it to a DVD-R.

There the HD2 or even the new Aiptek Go-HD is
much better with their small filesizes !

Regards, Stefan.

Jack Hanson · May 19th, 2007, 06:57 AM

I view my work on a sony sxrd 60 inch hdtv. With average outdoor lighting I have no noticable grain. I am connected thru the r/g/b/ inputs and the set upconverts the 720p to 1080i its not Discovery channell but it' better than most dvds!
Good Shooting

Jack Hanson · May 22nd, 2007, 08:18 AM

In a previous post I saiad iI had no noticable grain, I meant to say some noticable grain. For the size and price of this hybrid, you cannot go wrong. For ease of editing and better HD, use a dedicated HD camera. Any Sony will do.

David Tamés · May 23rd, 2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Hanson

With the Canon TX1 you will need an 8gb card if you want to shoot HD. Be sure it has a speed class rating of 6 (six) anything less will not allow you to capture @720p contniuously. [...]

For short segments 15 to 45 seconds, which is what I've been using the camera for, I've had no problems recording 720p HD with the TX1 using the slower SanDisk Ultra IIs cards, though for longer clips I plan to get the SanDisk Extreeme III (faster) cards. You will eventually get a buffer overflow with the "medium" speed cards, but it's very workable.

Since memory prices keep falling I thought I'd hold off a little while before getting an 8G high-speed card, the 1G medium-speed card has worked out well for shooting short B-roll segments.

Jerome Marot · May 23rd, 2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Tames

For short segments 15 to 45 seconds, which is what I've been using the camera for, I've had no problems recording 720p HD with the TX1 using the slower SanDisk Ultra IIs cards, though for longer clips I plan to get the SanDisk Extreeme III (faster) cards. You will eventually get a buffer overflow with the "medium" speed cards, but it's very workable.

I use a 4GB x150 SD card from Transcend (not SDHC) and it keeps up with the data rate. Cheaper than Sandisk too.

Marc Louis · May 25th, 2007, 06:31 AM

THE 8GB KINGSTON CLASS 6 SDHC, works very great according to many sources...

i just bought, and received 3 from amazon (around 105 Usd each)...i still need to receive my TX1 to test it now.

BY THE WAY HERE IS A GREAT BLOG JUST FOR THE TX1 : http://powershot-tx1.blogspot.com/

Patrick R. Grier · June 18th, 2007, 06:25 AM

Hi
I want good POV camera resolution for helmet video while mountain biking.
Bullet and cameras spout good numbers but, the recorders codecs turn their output to mushy porridge. ie. Archos 504 and 4 gen camera.

Perhaps some one can help, with suggestions.
Anyways - my experience ...

Sanyo VPC-HD2
Nice video while hold the camera perfectly still.
Loss of focus if any movement, panning, following a subject.

Canon TX1
Less nice video than Sanyo.
HUGE files, 3 minutes - 1 gig in the trees.
Focus while traveling through trees is better but still not acceptable.
Class 4, 8 gig card in camera hung down loading files larger than 300 meg.

I understand little video jargon.
There may be some settings to optimize the use in my application.

Thomas Adamson · June 18th, 2007, 02:44 PM

Regarding the post re loss of focus while panning, moving etc, you can fix the auto-focus onto a set position, which will stop the auto-focus from hunting. Focusing on a medium distance object and then fixing the focus should cover mountain bike shots.
Thomas.

May 1st, 2007, 05:45 PM	#1
Peter Solmssen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 133	Sanyo HD2 vs. Canon TX1 Since there have not been many detailed reviews of these cameras, I decided to buy both and do my own very unscientific tests. If I began with any bias, it would have been toward the Sanyo, since I have been cheerfully using the HD since it came out. The HD series has been commented on extensively in these and other pages, so I would only say that the HD2 is an improvement, with better low light capability and less noise, but otherwise pleasantly familiar. It does have one little bug; when shooting stills against the light, the screen gets bluish and washed out when you half-press the button. This is annoying, but doesn't affect the picture. I have had two, and they both did it, so it is a design problem, not a lemon. The TX1 is an intriguing variation on the small HD hybrid idea that Sanyo pioneered. The few reviewers have commented negatively on the ergonomics, but they didn't bother me -- maybe because I am used to the vertical format. I actually prefer the two triggers in different places; with the Sanyo, I was still pushing the wrong button after a year of use. The Canon picture quality, especially of the stills, is very pleasing. It is soft and clean in a good way -- looks a lot like film. The controls are adequate, though not as complete as on the Sanyo. The great advantages are the small size, the steel case with the retracting lens, and the excellent image stabilization. (The image stabilization on the Sanyo is useless: it degrades the image and makes the insufficiently wide angle even less wide -- serious problems for a small camera with a long zoom). The Canon has been much criticized for using Mjpeg. It doesn't bother me; it is easy to edit and I have yet to use up an 8GB card in a session. For my purposes (shooting for viewing on an HDTV), the Canon is working out well. My only issues with the TX1 are the small screen, and my inability, so far, to jury rig a wide angle attachment for the tiny, retracting lens.

May 7th, 2007, 01:15 PM	#3
David Tamés Kino-Eye Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 457	Compact size is the key with the TX1. I was surprized how good the stereo sound was, both for recording the birds in the trees in the back yard and someone talking close to the camera. It's no substitute for a real video camera or good audio recorder, but when size and weight are the critical factors you want to optimize, this little camera might be it. I purchased one as a ready at any moment take with me everywhere kind of camera. It's no substitue for my HDV camcorder or D-SLR, but I can't take those everywhere I go, so the TX1 is there for those moments when those other cameras are not and I need to shoot something sponteneously. I'm not crazy about the image quality, but I understand the trade-offs the designers and engineers had to make to delivery such a tiny camera at the $500(US) price point. __________________ David Tames { blog: http://Kino-Eye.com twitter: @cinemakinoeye } Last edited by David Tamés; May 7th, 2007 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Update

May 8th, 2007, 04:51 AM	#4
Andrew Lings Tourist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 4	Purple streaking Guys, Am too a Sanyo and TX1 user, unfortunately my HD1 was dropped and then needed repair, only problem is I can't find where I've put it! Anyway, due to dissapointment with HD1, low light etc, have gone for the TX1, the photos are excellent, another league to Sanyo's and lthough the video is excellent(apart from memory size!!) I've noticed a couple of things, Purple/smear streaking(ccd effect) is very excessive and is evident in very bright sunlight in all sorts of circumstances, off flag poles, water reflection, all over the place. Also, if shooting into bright sunlight the colour of the scene is almost completely purple, complete burn-out. Have you guys found the same but to a limited extent, or is my cam faulty? These hd hybrids are becoming an absolute nightmare! and was also wondering if this is why Canon delayed ie to try and fix/minimise the problem. I got my cam off e-bay and cant get my head around sending it all the way back to HK!!

May 8th, 2007, 08:12 AM	#5
Jack Hanson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sedona AZ Posts: 15	Canon Tx1 Ergonomics And Sdhc Cards I too was concerned about the reviewers comments about the ergonomics as I have big hands. When I got my camera I had no trouble holding it! Be aware when you purchase a large capacity memory chip for this camera, @ 8gb's storage you need no less than a class 4 speed rating in order to avoid filling up the buffer (speed class2) after only 25 seconds of shooting @ the highest settings. Kingston just came out with a 8gb class 6 card and I will report results after I get my card. For the price and size of this camera I am totally pleased with both the stills and the video. I view all of my work on a Sony 60" sxrd hd tv. BTW Samsonite makes a semi rigid belt case that fits this camera perfectly so I carry mine all the time so I'll never miss that "photo oportunity".

May 18th, 2007, 05:07 PM	#7
Jack Hanson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sedona AZ Posts: 15	memory With the Canon TX1 you will need an 8gb card if you want to shoot HD. Be sure it has a speed class rating of 6 (six) anything less will not allow you to capture @720p contniuously.You will be able to record a file of no longer than 16 minutes b4 the card has to stop and write. So just watch the time indicator and be ready to start shooting again after a breif(10seconds) pause. BTW the battery will record no more than a total of 37 minutes at this level, some what less if you are zooming a lot. The only card I have found that is both 8gb and speed class rating of 6 is made by Kingston. Good Shooting Last edited by Jack Hanson; May 18th, 2007 at 05:09 PM. Reason: camera not named

May 1st, 2007, 07:07 PM	#2
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Your observations are much appreciated. I've posed questions before from the standpoint of a backpacker who doesn't want to carry an extra ounce but still wants to shoot HD. My peculiar needs are simple but include good audio capabilities, as well as ability to shoot with a good wide-angle lens. Currently the Sony HC-3 fits the bill but when I'm all decked out with extra batteries, tripod, extra tape, etc. I'm close to 4 pounds. Doesn't sound like much but when you're on the trail (only coming into town to resupply) for several months at a time, that's dead weight. So keep the comparisons coming!

May 18th, 2007, 07:34 PM	#8
Stefan Hartmann Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 46	I Must say,the stillpictures from the TX1 are much much better than the still pictures of the HD2 ! The HD2 pics are all very noisy also in good daylight ! It seems the HD2 was only optimized on taking movies, but the still picture section is so noisy, one just can´t believe it... Otherwise the movie mode of the TX1 is also very noisy and with the MJPEG codec more than nonusable ! Think about how much storage you need. Okay, maybe you will buy enough 8 Gbytes cards, but to save this all to harddisc space later will clog up your harddiscs very fast.. I still have got in my notebook just only a 60 GB harddisk, where I only have about 2 to 5 Gbytes of free space usually, so I could not store much video before burning it to a DVD-R. There the HD2 or even the new Aiptek Go-HD is much better with their small filesizes ! Regards, Stefan.

May 19th, 2007, 06:57 AM	#9
Jack Hanson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sedona AZ Posts: 15	Grainy? I view my work on a sony sxrd 60 inch hdtv. With average outdoor lighting I have no noticable grain. I am connected thru the r/g/b/ inputs and the set upconverts the 720p to 1080i its not Discovery channell but it' better than most dvds! Good Shooting

May 22nd, 2007, 08:18 AM	#10
Jack Hanson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sedona AZ Posts: 15	Grain In a previous post I saiad iI had no noticable grain, I meant to say some noticable grain. For the size and price of this hybrid, you cannot go wrong. For ease of editing and better HD, use a dedicated HD camera. Any Sony will do.

May 25th, 2007, 06:31 AM	#13
Marc Louis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 68	THE 8GB KINGSTON CLASS 6 SDHC, works very great according to many sources... i just bought, and received 3 from amazon (around 105 Usd each)...i still need to receive my TX1 to test it now. BY THE WAY HERE IS A GREAT BLOG JUST FOR THE TX1 : http://powershot-tx1.blogspot.com/

June 18th, 2007, 06:25 AM	#14
Patrick R. Grier Tourist Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 4	Tried Both and Returned Both to Store Hi I want good POV camera resolution for helmet video while mountain biking. Bullet and cameras spout good numbers but, the recorders codecs turn their output to mushy porridge. ie. Archos 504 and 4 gen camera. Perhaps some one can help, with suggestions. Anyways - my experience ... Sanyo VPC-HD2 Nice video while hold the camera perfectly still. Loss of focus if any movement, panning, following a subject. Canon TX1 Less nice video than Sanyo. HUGE files, 3 minutes - 1 gig in the trees. Focus while traveling through trees is better but still not acceptable. Class 4, 8 gig card in camera hung down loading files larger than 300 meg. I understand little video jargon. There may be some settings to optimize the use in my application.

June 18th, 2007, 02:44 PM	#15
Thomas Adamson Tourist Join Date: May 2007 Location: UK Posts: 3	Sanyo HD2 loss of focus when moving Regarding the post re loss of focus while panning, moving etc, you can fix the auto-focus onto a set position, which will stop the auto-focus from hunting. Focusing on a medium distance object and then fixing the focus should cover mountain bike shots. Thomas.