Sanyo announces HD2 !!!

Jerry Jones · January 20th, 2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Wells

My friends, I'm a marketing guy.

So am I.

What you say is obvious.

However, at this price point, the only benchmark this little camcorder needs to achieve is "acceptable" 720/30p video.

If it does that, then it's probably going to sell.

Nobody expects the Sanyo to perform as well as the 1080i camcorders by the major manufacturers.

Guess what?

Many high definition TVs can't display 1080i resolution anyway.

This might be a worthwhile camcorder for the home enthusiast who has a less expensive high definition screen that only has enough resolution to show 720p.

I don't think anybody expects to do pro-level production with this little device.

On the other hand, I've seen work produced by some self-proclaimed "experts" who have the latest and the greatest tools and their work is so bad -- bad writing, bad execution -- that it could easily be stomped by truly talented directors, writers, shooters using nothing better than a Sanyo for acquisition.

Jerry Jones

Wayne Morellini · January 21st, 2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Wells

My friends, I'm a marketing guy. As such, I know the importance of building hype on new products. These are press releases. They are made to build market awareness and interest, not necessarily to represent the truth. Remember the accolades Sanyo gave itself upon release of the Hd1. The reviews weren't all that accurate; the model went to market with significant flaws that Sanyo never corrected.

At least this one might be what the HD1 should have been. If they had h264 at 9mb/s for the HD2 it might be better, but seriously, 30/60fps at 18 Mb/s would be nice, and nobody has to use it unless they want to.

Jerry Jones · January 21st, 2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

At least this one might be what the HD1 should have been. If they had h264 at 9mb/s for the HD2 it might be better, but seriously, 30/60fps at 18 Mb/s would be nice, and nobody has to use it unless they want to.

Agree 100%.

It will be interesting to see how the Ambarella-driven SAMSUNG camcorder -- to be announced in the summer -- will perform in this regard.

Link to Ambarella press release: http://tinyurl.com/377vww

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Wayne Morellini · January 21st, 2007, 01:15 PM

Notice it is missing, this is sad, now there is no 60fps mode for action scenes.

http://www.sanyodigital.com/video_ca...fications.html

Another warning, it looks like 720p will not divide evenly into the sensor resolution, I wonder if this may produce some interpolation problems as things move in front of the camera. Hmm, hold it, an bayer pattern has a diagonal stripe of green, and another of the red/blue stripe, this could produce and imbalance and stepping on diagonals in one direction if interpolation was not done sufficiently.

The good news, is that they have finally learned to put in a full width SD mode, 720*480 at 3.5mb/s.

They should have made an 720 60fps SD mode and retained the 60fps VGA mode at least. If they could have had 9mb/s version of all the SD modes, you could have such a rush on this camera by people for it's SD quality.

Jerry Jones · January 21st, 2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Notice it is missing, this is sad, now there is no 60fps mode for action scenes.

http://www.sanyodigital.com/video_ca...fications.html

Another warning, it looks like 720p will not divide evenly into the sensor resolution, I wonder if this may produce some interpolation problems as things move in front of the camera. Hmm, hold it, an bayer pattern has a diagonal stripe of green, and another of the red/blue stripe, this could produce and imbalance and stepping on diagonals in one direction if interpolation was not done sufficiently.

The good news, is that they have finally learned to put in a full width SD mode, 720*480 at 3.5mb/s.

They should have made an 720 60fps SD mode and retained the 60fps VGA mode at least. If they could have had 9mb/s version of all the SD modes, you could have such a rush on this camera by people for it's SD quality.

Good points.

Thanks for pointing that out about the 720 x 480 for SD; at first, I didn't notice that change.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Carlos Serrano · January 21st, 2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

They should have made an 720 60fps SD mode and retained the 60fps VGA mode at least. If they could have had 9mb/s version of all the SD modes, you could have such a rush on this camera by people for it's SD quality.

Completely agree + HD/SD 25fps. I can´t understand the lack of a 25p mode for European models. This would have some advantages, like bitrate efficiency, higher exposition time ( better light capture ), near 24fps cinelook,..., and a lot of market in Pal countries.
Please, Mr Sanyo... 25fps... ;-)

Stefan Hartmann · January 26th, 2007, 10:48 AM

Who is the first one to find an MP4 file on the
net one can download to check its quality ?

Does anybody know, where we can download such a
demo movie, which was shot with the HD2 ?

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.

Marc Louis · January 27th, 2007, 03:21 AM

I DON't think a sample has aired yet on the net...

i would say we won't find any before end of february...

Stefan Hartmann · January 29th, 2007, 12:15 PM

Hmm,
why did nobody record a sample movie atthe CES show ?

Was it under glas case only ,sonobody had access to it ?

If anybody sees a sample somewhere, please post the URLfor it.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Wayne Morellini · February 7th, 2007, 01:41 PM

I am glad to hear that the 75% increase in low light performance, to 6 and 12 lux. Maybe this is an indication they have increased signal to noise ratio, and got rid of that fine noise during the day, along with less noise in low light. If this is true we may have much better compression performance. n 6 lux is close to the maximum 5 lux I would like. But with an low bit rate codec I would prefer 3 lux or less, and at least 48db S/N (preferably higher, enough to give you 100% noise free at 5 lux).

Felipe Del Villar · February 22nd, 2007, 11:58 AM

Sanyo put the HD2 in the japanese website:
http://www.sanyo-dsc.com/products/li...hd2/index.html

Also they have a comparision shot between HD1 an d HD2 in low light conditions:
http://www.sanyo-dsc.com/products/li...hd2/movie.html
looks good.

Maybe someone that speaks Japanese can help us find more info....I tried to find some demo clips like they had with the HD1A but couldn't.

Alexander Wrana · February 22nd, 2007, 12:20 PM

Ah, yeah, *cough* I'd say something like this *looks for japanese dictionary*:

"It evolved the high-speed image processing LSI of hi-vision correspondence to a greater extent “platinum engine II” new development. With the improvement of noise reduction technology, at the time and the like of the evening it reached the point where it can photograph cleanly even with the scene which cannot guarantee the sufficient light intensity. Furthermore if “the High Sensitivity” button is pushed, brightness of the former ratio largest approximately 2 time *2, actualizing lowest subject luminous intensity 7 lux. Furthermore it became strong in dark place photographing.

*1 At the time of High Sensitivity mode.
*2 DMX-HD1A: Comparison with the lamp mode."

--> Courtesy of Google Translation ;)

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

Felipe Del Villar · February 22nd, 2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Wrana

*1 At the time of High Sensitivity mode.
*2 DMX-HD1A: Comparison with the lamp mode."

Should I understand that they are comparing the High Sensitivity mode of the HD2 with the HD1 with Flash??

Wayne Morellini · March 3rd, 2007, 09:17 AM

Some youtube Sanyo HD2 footage, and commercial mentioned here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87867

Euisung Lee · March 6th, 2007, 04:17 AM

I originally thought that Canon HV20 would be the contender to HD2, but the real punch seems to be coming from the other side of Canon.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022203canontx1.asp

Canon powershot TX1. 7.1MP still, 720p 30fps video in 'Motion JPEG avi'!!! (Downside is that 4GB card holds only 13min video)
10x zoom with optical stabilization, plus many more Powershot features like face detection. And most importantly, $500 price tag.

I'd love to see the first hand review of this camera and the actual AVI sample, but with $500, which is about the cheapest HD1a price, this boy can steal the crown of 720p palmcorder from Xacti HDs.

Competition is good for consumers, in most cases ;)

January 21st, 2007, 01:15 PM	#19
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Warning, even 60fps VGA mode is gone, poor sports crowd. Notice it is missing, this is sad, now there is no 60fps mode for action scenes. http://www.sanyodigital.com/video_ca...fications.html Another warning, it looks like 720p will not divide evenly into the sensor resolution, I wonder if this may produce some interpolation problems as things move in front of the camera. Hmm, hold it, an bayer pattern has a diagonal stripe of green, and another of the red/blue stripe, this could produce and imbalance and stepping on diagonals in one direction if interpolation was not done sufficiently. The good news, is that they have finally learned to put in a full width SD mode, 720*480 at 3.5mb/s. They should have made an 720 60fps SD mode and retained the 60fps VGA mode at least. If they could have had 9mb/s version of all the SD modes, you could have such a rush on this camera by people for it's SD quality.

January 26th, 2007, 10:48 AM	#22
Stefan Hartmann Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 46	Who is the first one to find an MP4 file on the net one can download to check its quality ? Does anybody know, where we can download such a demo movie, which was shot with the HD2 ? Many thanks in advance. Regards, Stefan.

January 27th, 2007, 03:21 AM	#23
Marc Louis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 68	I DON't think a sample has aired yet on the net... i would say we won't find any before end of february...

January 29th, 2007, 12:15 PM	#24
Stefan Hartmann Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 46	Hmm, why did nobody record a sample movie atthe CES show ? Was it under glas case only ,sonobody had access to it ? If anybody sees a sample somewhere, please post the URLfor it. Many thanks. Regards, Stefan.

February 7th, 2007, 01:41 PM	#25
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I am glad to hear that the 75% increase in low light performance, to 6 and 12 lux. Maybe this is an indication they have increased signal to noise ratio, and got rid of that fine noise during the day, along with less noise in low light. If this is true we may have much better compression performance. n 6 lux is close to the maximum 5 lux I would like. But with an low bit rate codec I would prefer 3 lux or less, and at least 48db S/N (preferably higher, enough to give you 100% noise free at 5 lux).

February 22nd, 2007, 11:58 AM	#26
Felipe Del Villar Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Posts: 28	Sanyo put the HD2 in the japanese website: http://www.sanyo-dsc.com/products/li...hd2/index.html Also they have a comparision shot between HD1 an d HD2 in low light conditions: http://www.sanyo-dsc.com/products/li...hd2/movie.html looks good. Maybe someone that speaks Japanese can help us find more info....I tried to find some demo clips like they had with the HD1A but couldn't.

February 22nd, 2007, 12:20 PM	#27
Alexander Wrana Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Old Europe (a.k.a. Germany) Posts: 33	Ah, yeah, cough I'd say something like this looks for japanese dictionary: "It evolved the high-speed image processing LSI of hi-vision correspondence to a greater extent “platinum engine II” new development. With the improvement of noise reduction technology, at the time and the like of the evening it reached the point where it can photograph cleanly even with the scene which cannot guarantee the sufficient light intensity. Furthermore if “the High Sensitivity” button is pushed, brightness of the former ratio largest approximately 2 time 2, actualizing lowest subject luminous intensity 7 lux. Furthermore it became strong in dark place photographing. 1 At the time of High Sensitivity mode. *2 DMX-HD1A: Comparison with the lamp mode." --> Courtesy of Google Translation ;) http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

March 3rd, 2007, 09:17 AM	#29
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Some youtube Sanyo HD2 footage, and commercial mentioned here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87867

March 6th, 2007, 04:17 AM	#30
Euisung Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 57	I originally thought that Canon HV20 would be the contender to HD2, but the real punch seems to be coming from the other side of Canon. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022203canontx1.asp Canon powershot TX1. 7.1MP still, 720p 30fps video in 'Motion JPEG avi'!!! (Downside is that 4GB card holds only 13min video) 10x zoom with optical stabilization, plus many more Powershot features like face detection. And most importantly, $500 price tag. I'd love to see the first hand review of this camera and the actual AVI sample, but with $500, which is about the cheapest HD1a price, this boy can steal the crown of 720p palmcorder from Xacti HDs. Competition is good for consumers, in most cases ;)