Battery Woes :-) at DVinfo.net

Chris Taylor · August 26th, 2006, 05:13 AM

OK I have 2 Sanyo Batteries and 2 Knock Off ebay batteries.

all 4 work fine all 4 charge in camera fine all 4 get about the same run time.

I got the new sanyo external charger from amazon (yeah!)

Well not so fat. It will charge the sanyo's fine but refuses the charge the knock off's seems sanyo designed this somehow to be able to tell the difference GRRR I hate when they do that. Servers NO purpose except to piss us end users off. If they did not charge $50-$60 for a $10 battery I would have no problem buying theres.

Anyway they charge fine in camera but not in the external charger.

Anyone else have this ? Anyone know which knockoffs will work in the external sanyo charger ?

Thanks
Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Kamin Tehrani · August 27th, 2006, 09:05 AM

The place I bought my camera sold me 2 "knock off batteries and a recharger" which charges the Sanyo battery as well. No problems so far.

Chris Taylor · August 27th, 2006, 12:19 PM

I have the SANYO charger and it won't charge the knockoff cells but the camera will so I know its not the batteries its the charer somehow knowing its not a sanyo battery or something.

I already spent $40 on the charger so I don't really want to buy another one :-(

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Craig Svare · September 1st, 2006, 02:23 PM

I have noticed non-Sanyo batteries at www.jr.com and www.atbatt.com. Also, www. bestbatt.com sells both a charger and battery for the HD1. Since the prices are much less than Sanyo's prices, I wonder which of these you have experience with or can you recommend other companies?

For example:
<http://www.bestbatt.com/Sanyo_DB_L40_Battery_Charger_p/bbdbl40chg.htm>
the charger is $25 and the battery is $12.80 plus shipping.

Does this charger charge original Sanyo batteries?

Graham Jones · September 26th, 2006, 09:41 AM

My Sanyo DB-L40 Battery and Sanyo VAR L40 Charger arrived today.

I immediately took the old, original battery out of the camera and popped it in the new charger, and it was reassuring to see the charger's red light come on.

I then removed it from the charger, placed it back in the camera and considering this had been the first time I had ever removed my battery from the camera since I used it first - I switched the camera on to check I had put it back in properly.

But the camera didn't turn on. I checked repeatedly to see whether I had put the battery back in correctly. I had. But the old, original battery that came with the camera, which had never given me any trouble and had plenty of charge left a moment ago, was now dead after being placed in the Sanyo charger for 10 secs!

I got it to work again by putting it back in the docking station and connecting and disconnecting to my PC.

Were the battery that originally came with the camera and Sanyo's charger somehow incompatible?!

It got weirder when I tried to charge the NEW battery in the NEW charger. The same thing happened again!

The red light was on during charging for an hour or so and then it turned off and I put the new battery in the camera. Dead.

When I tried it on the docking station it came to life again.

It seems as if both my original battery and new battery are fine and can be charged as always via the docking station - but that the charger is somehow unwelcome, whether because it has a flaw or the camera itself does..

All three of the products - original battery that came with the camera, extra battery and charger - purport to be Sanyo made.

Lawrence Mayka · September 27th, 2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones Senior

I then removed it from the charger, placed it back in the camera and considering this had been the first time I had ever removed my battery from the camera since I used it first - I switched the camera on to check I had put it back in properly.

But the camera didn't turn on. I checked repeatedly to see whether I had put the battery back in correctly.

This happened to me. But I eventually figured out that removing and reinstalling the battery turns the camcorder off completely. To turn it back on, you have to hold down the off/on button for several seconds.

Graham Jones · September 28th, 2006, 06:32 AM

Thanks Lawrence! Happy now.

Chris Taylor · October 21st, 2006, 10:51 AM

Yup when you close the LCD your not turning it off your putting it in a deep sort of "standby" (this is why your battery depletes even if you dont use it for long enough but does not deplete if its outside the camcorder)

Freaked me out the first time as well.

I am still pissed that sanyo made the charger detect the brand battery. Thats just a pissy manufacturing decision. Bad Sanyo. :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Graham Jones · October 21st, 2006, 12:31 PM

See, I never turn it off by closing the screen.

I press the ON/OFF button and the camera says 'going to sleep'.

But yes, after you remove/replace/swap batteries it's in a deeper sleep and needs to be pressed for longer..

Paul R Johnson · October 21st, 2006, 12:33 PM

Just a guess and maybe well off track, but some chargers, especially the cheap ones just use a simple resistor to set charge current. Slap a battery in and it starts to charge - these keep charging no matter what happens. Some battery chargers monitor the current, they then detect when to start the charge, when to finish, and sometimes when to cut the fast charge rate down to trickle - so called intelligent chargers. The batteries themselves may have internal protectio from being charged to much - and in cheaper unbranded ones the chances of this are rare. Some also prevent the battery being completely discharged.

So the snag could simply be that the branded charger expects a particular load accross the terminals. Maybe the cheap battery is totally flat? The branded charger may use a small detected voltage to trigger the recharge cycle?

Internally, many branded packs have exactly the same cells - but there may well be additional circuitry missing. Physically, size and voltage ratings may be the same - it doesn't mean a thing!

As I'm sitting here, I have a charger attempting to charge 4 large NP-1 batteries. It's a new charger, it auto detects the presence of the packs and then fast charges them. I have 1 original Sony, and two different types of other brands. Oddly, the other brands charge and perform well - the Sony is the problem. Sometimes the charger doesn't recognise it as a valid battery. removing it and putting it back brings on the charge cycle - sometimes, however, the charge terminates early, making it unreliable. In my other slow charger it is always fine. No big deal, just different battery technology.

Chris Taylor · October 21st, 2006, 03:34 PM

All that stuff does not really apply to LION batteries

LION can NOT (and they really mean that) be over or under charged without hurting the cells if not making them leak or much worse.

Lithium batteries are actually REALLY dangerous. I know I messed with some of the original tadiran cells. (lion batteries NO circuitry)

overcharge and POP they literally could and have exploded. Undervolt them just a bit and poof they die and you can never charge them again (very rarely you can save one but the risk is high)

Thats why your cellphone turns itself off. it gets a message from the circuitry built into the battery saying hey thats it I am dead stop using me and the phone shuts down.

Same with charging the circuitry determines when its full and stops taking power from the charger source.

I am guessing sanyo built a signal into all this circuitry that off course the knockoffs would have no clue about to determine if its a sanyo oem battery or a knockoff and it is told not to charge anything that does not report back properly even if the battery is a perfect match and perfectly good.

Oddly they did not build this circuitry into the camera itself.

They probably did it for the charger when they realized how much cheaper the perfectly good knockoffs were over there own offerings and they wanted some of that money. Very cheap and will NOT induce me to pay there price. I am not paying $50 for a 3.7v 1200mah battery pack. Especially when I KNOW they can be sold for $10 and at a profit still.

Thats just wrong. Companies should not be allowed to do that kind of stuff by law.

I will just have to wait till some oem cells come on ebay affordably or the knockoffs get smart enough to "fool" the charger into accepting them as real sanyo packs.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Chris Wells · October 22nd, 2006, 08:26 AM

The point about protective circuitry is quite valid. Lion doesn't survive charging outside of published specifications by much. I'm betting there are simply variances in the internal resistances, or a small difference in voltage that prevent the two from working together. I'd rather the circuitry be too sensitive than to experience a bad match and have a camera explode in close proximity.

The option I found is to connect a cable and jack to a 4 cell AA pack. Loaded with 4 NiMH 2500 mAh cells, I get more juice than I've ever needed. The charging block is a pain, but so is swapping batteries mid-session, which I never have to do.

August 26th, 2006, 05:13 AM	#1
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	Battery Woes :-) OK I have 2 Sanyo Batteries and 2 Knock Off ebay batteries. all 4 work fine all 4 charge in camera fine all 4 get about the same run time. I got the new sanyo external charger from amazon (yeah!) Well not so fat. It will charge the sanyo's fine but refuses the charge the knock off's seems sanyo designed this somehow to be able to tell the difference GRRR I hate when they do that. Servers NO purpose except to piss us end users off. If they did not charge $50-$60 for a $10 battery I would have no problem buying theres. Anyway they charge fine in camera but not in the external charger. Anyone else have this ? Anyone know which knockoffs will work in the external sanyo charger ? Thanks Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

August 27th, 2006, 09:05 AM	#2
Kamin Tehrani Tourist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Miami Florida Posts: 3	Batteries! The place I bought my camera sold me 2 "knock off batteries and a recharger" which charges the Sanyo battery as well. No problems so far.

September 1st, 2006, 02:23 PM	#4
Craig Svare Tourist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 2	Which battery/charger recommended/ do you use? I have noticed non-Sanyo batteries at www.jr.com and www.atbatt.com. Also, www. bestbatt.com sells both a charger and battery for the HD1. Since the prices are much less than Sanyo's prices, I wonder which of these you have experience with or can you recommend other companies? For example: <http://www.bestbatt.com/Sanyo_DB_L40_Battery_Charger_p/bbdbl40chg.htm> the charger is $25 and the battery is $12.80 plus shipping. Does this charger charge original Sanyo batteries?

September 26th, 2006, 09:41 AM	#5
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	My Sanyo DB-L40 Battery and Sanyo VAR L40 Charger arrived today. I immediately took the old, original battery out of the camera and popped it in the new charger, and it was reassuring to see the charger's red light come on. I then removed it from the charger, placed it back in the camera and considering this had been the first time I had ever removed my battery from the camera since I used it first - I switched the camera on to check I had put it back in properly. But the camera didn't turn on. I checked repeatedly to see whether I had put the battery back in correctly. I had. But the old, original battery that came with the camera, which had never given me any trouble and had plenty of charge left a moment ago, was now dead after being placed in the Sanyo charger for 10 secs! I got it to work again by putting it back in the docking station and connecting and disconnecting to my PC. Were the battery that originally came with the camera and Sanyo's charger somehow incompatible?! It got weirder when I tried to charge the NEW battery in the NEW charger. The same thing happened again! The red light was on during charging for an hour or so and then it turned off and I put the new battery in the camera. Dead. When I tried it on the docking station it came to life again. It seems as if both my original battery and new battery are fine and can be charged as always via the docking station - but that the charger is somehow unwelcome, whether because it has a flaw or the camera itself does.. All three of the products - original battery that came with the camera, extra battery and charger - purport to be Sanyo made. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

September 28th, 2006, 06:32 AM	#7
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	Thanks Lawrence! Happy now. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

August 27th, 2006, 12:19 PM	#3
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	I have the SANYO charger and it won't charge the knockoff cells but the camera will so I know its not the batteries its the charer somehow knowing its not a sanyo battery or something. I already spent $40 on the charger so I don't really want to buy another one :-( Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

October 21st, 2006, 10:51 AM	#8
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	Yup when you close the LCD your not turning it off your putting it in a deep sort of "standby" (this is why your battery depletes even if you dont use it for long enough but does not deplete if its outside the camcorder) Freaked me out the first time as well. I am still pissed that sanyo made the charger detect the brand battery. Thats just a pissy manufacturing decision. Bad Sanyo. :-) Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

October 21st, 2006, 12:31 PM	#9
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	See, I never turn it off by closing the screen. I press the ON/OFF button and the camera says 'going to sleep'. But yes, after you remove/replace/swap batteries it's in a deeper sleep and needs to be pressed for longer.. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

October 21st, 2006, 12:33 PM	#10
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Just a guess and maybe well off track, but some chargers, especially the cheap ones just use a simple resistor to set charge current. Slap a battery in and it starts to charge - these keep charging no matter what happens. Some battery chargers monitor the current, they then detect when to start the charge, when to finish, and sometimes when to cut the fast charge rate down to trickle - so called intelligent chargers. The batteries themselves may have internal protectio from being charged to much - and in cheaper unbranded ones the chances of this are rare. Some also prevent the battery being completely discharged. So the snag could simply be that the branded charger expects a particular load accross the terminals. Maybe the cheap battery is totally flat? The branded charger may use a small detected voltage to trigger the recharge cycle? Internally, many branded packs have exactly the same cells - but there may well be additional circuitry missing. Physically, size and voltage ratings may be the same - it doesn't mean a thing! As I'm sitting here, I have a charger attempting to charge 4 large NP-1 batteries. It's a new charger, it auto detects the presence of the packs and then fast charges them. I have 1 original Sony, and two different types of other brands. Oddly, the other brands charge and perform well - the Sony is the problem. Sometimes the charger doesn't recognise it as a valid battery. removing it and putting it back brings on the charge cycle - sometimes, however, the charge terminates early, making it unreliable. In my other slow charger it is always fine. No big deal, just different battery technology.

October 21st, 2006, 03:34 PM	#11
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	All that stuff does not really apply to LION batteries LION can NOT (and they really mean that) be over or under charged without hurting the cells if not making them leak or much worse. Lithium batteries are actually REALLY dangerous. I know I messed with some of the original tadiran cells. (lion batteries NO circuitry) overcharge and POP they literally could and have exploded. Undervolt them just a bit and poof they die and you can never charge them again (very rarely you can save one but the risk is high) Thats why your cellphone turns itself off. it gets a message from the circuitry built into the battery saying hey thats it I am dead stop using me and the phone shuts down. Same with charging the circuitry determines when its full and stops taking power from the charger source. I am guessing sanyo built a signal into all this circuitry that off course the knockoffs would have no clue about to determine if its a sanyo oem battery or a knockoff and it is told not to charge anything that does not report back properly even if the battery is a perfect match and perfectly good. Oddly they did not build this circuitry into the camera itself. They probably did it for the charger when they realized how much cheaper the perfectly good knockoffs were over there own offerings and they wanted some of that money. Very cheap and will NOT induce me to pay there price. I am not paying $50 for a 3.7v 1200mah battery pack. Especially when I KNOW they can be sold for $10 and at a profit still. Thats just wrong. Companies should not be allowed to do that kind of stuff by law. I will just have to wait till some oem cells come on ebay affordably or the knockoffs get smart enough to "fool" the charger into accepting them as real sanyo packs. Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

October 22nd, 2006, 08:26 AM	#12
Chris Wells Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kelowna, Canada Posts: 148	The point about protective circuitry is quite valid. Lion doesn't survive charging outside of published specifications by much. I'm betting there are simply variances in the internal resistances, or a small difference in voltage that prevent the two from working together. I'd rather the circuitry be too sensitive than to experience a bad match and have a camera explode in close proximity. The option I found is to connect a cable and jack to a 4 cell AA pack. Loaded with 4 NiMH 2500 mAh cells, I get more juice than I've ever needed. The charging block is a pain, but so is swapping batteries mid-session, which I never have to do.