Sanyo HD1 footage!

Jung Kyu · January 20th, 2006, 12:06 AM

yes.. the whole clip is sony hdr-a1
hdr-hc1 also can perform Similar to this.
this clip is converted to canopus hq codec 4:2:2 and upscale to 1920x1080

http://videopage.net/morita/Hi_Vision/8M_fujiwara.wmv

Jef Bryant · January 20th, 2006, 12:22 AM

Very much looking forward to seeing user tests and straight footage from this little camera.

I am a bit heartbroken that there apparently will be no european 25p version.

Also wondering if there is a filter thread on the lens. Perhaps the WA adapter is proprietary? That would also be unfortunate.

Looks pretty good otherwise, though!

Thomas Richter · January 20th, 2006, 02:59 AM

Yes, I'm very heartbroken, too. This would have been - as stated before - the perfect lens hack victim.

Just imagin adapting it to Bolex or Beaulieu 16mm c-mount threads and using some nice little 16mm primes on them.

Like a Schneider Kreuznach 1:0.95 25mm

Hellooooo DOF!

And it would look so cool (the 16mm primes are pretty small as well, would keep the form factor).

If the pixels on the 1/2,5 " 5 MP Sensor are too small to have microlens in front of them, the Sanyo may tolerate the wide apperture and this plan could work.

But maybe manufacturing is so advanced now that they can build such a small microlens structure. This would be good for the picture with the build in lens, but very bad for my purpose.

Hse Kha · January 20th, 2006, 03:17 AM

Well finally I managed to see the sample clip. Instead of right clicking and saving as, I had to left click it and open it in WMP. That tricked worked. Thanks.

Now to the footage - WOW! Amazing. Incredible colors, better than any 1 chiper I have seen. And the resolution is amazing as well.

Yes there are artifacts. BUT remeber that this is a VC1 encoded clip and so we don't know which atifacts are associated with which enoding, since it was encoded twice - first by the camera and then by whoever coverted to clip to WMV.

BUT Is this a prank? I mean seriously, how do we know that the Sanyo was really used for this clip??? It looks way too good. Maybe it is not a prank but an error and it is the footage of the Panasonic P2 HD Camera?

Serge Victorovich · January 20th, 2006, 06:02 AM

Original *.mp4 (not reencoded!) clip 1280x720p30 from Sanyo HD1 exist?

Anhar Miah · January 20th, 2006, 08:15 AM

Ok, I think we might be jumping the Gun on this one, sure its a great little camera no disputes there, however for any real inde use I personally can not see it happen, perhaps others may do wonderful things with this camera.

Anhar

Wayne Morellini · January 20th, 2006, 08:59 AM

Just managed to download it, but can't get that WMV format to play properly (works best at 50% speed and drops the ball again at 25%, odd). I had little trouble playing the other HD1 native Mpeg4 clip though, any chance that we could get to see the original, there are a few things I would like to see if Mpeg4 is causing them?

Was this shout in 9Mbps mode or 6Mbps 720p camera mode?

Ok, poor latitude, but might be caused by the codec/player. Seen the dark pants blocking too, maybe also in the face. Sanyo could fix this with firmware change (worth contacting them to let them know). Noticed that big movements, like the hand, the hairs all blur out, codec or low frame rate? Hard to tell, could be media player. Otherwise I am impressed at what they can fit in 9Mbps, but I think h264 at 18-25Mbps would do.

I have found that if you turn use overlays off in the player you get a more natural colour playback, and the edge of colour regions don't appear to change so harshly. There is also a selection on the MS player that turns off video smoothing.

Jung, thanks for putting up the video.

Wayne.

Kurth Bousman · January 20th, 2006, 09:13 AM

Lens hacking would only affect the res not the dof. Might be a cool camera for an adapter however.Kurth

Serge Victorovich · January 20th, 2006, 09:15 AM

Wayne, try last build MediaPlayerClassic6.4.8.7 or VLC player

Wayne Morellini · January 20th, 2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurth Bousman

Lens hacking would only affect the res not the dof. Might be a cool camera for an adapter however.Kurth

You might, if you can increase the aperture with a SLR lens through a condenser arrangement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serge Victorovich

Wayne, try last build MediaPlayerClassic6.4.8.7 or VLC player

Thanks. Have latest VLC, and WMP, but native mpeg4 works many times better than WMP.

Thomas Richter · January 21st, 2006, 05:35 AM

Yes SLR and condenser is possible, I was thinking of something else:

If you can replace the original lens with a mount for prime lenses, you will get a shallower depth of field IF the primes have very wide apertures (wider than the build in lens).

One example is the Drake cam (see Alternative Imaging methods). They get very shallow 35mm style DOF with a 2/3" sensor using primes with very wide apertures. The only reason they can do this, is because the sensor doesn't have a microlens-array in front of the silicone.

But I don't want to extend this discussion too far. Just imagining how cool this little cam would be with small but fully manual lens for 16mm cameras on it.

Les Dit · January 21st, 2006, 05:42 AM

Sorry to tell you, but you can't change the DOF without a ground glass or other intermediate focal plane between the lens and the sensor.
It's just not possible to change DOF with any combination of just lens's.

I doubt that the Sanyo is stopped down much either. They want all the light they can get. So hoping that a F1.2 lens would help is probably
futile. But when you get the Sanyo, are you *really* going to hack it's lens off? Really?
-Les

Thomas Richter · January 21st, 2006, 06:30 AM

Les, you are right. If it comes with a 1.2 lens, it makes no sense at all.

I think I am creating a bit of a misunderstanding. Obviously, the DOF of the camera won't change. What would chance would be the maximum aperture of the lens. That's what I was referring to. The picture of a 1/2,5" imaging sensor at 1.2 would probably have the same DOF as a 35mm film (not photo) stopped down to 8. (Not calculated, just an estimate - I can calculate precisely if requested).

I would have hacked if the following three conditions:
1) PAL version with 25p
2) Aperture of build-in lens >= 1.8
3) live video out (to monitor on an external LCD screen)

As 1) is probably not going to materialise, its purely hypothetical. Anyway, if someone would like to join my dreaming, feel free to email me.

Wayne Morellini · January 22nd, 2006, 08:27 AM

Here is a conversation I am having with the akihabaranews guy, about the camera, he is waiting for a review unit.

http://forum.akihabaranews.com/viewt...asc&highlight=

Jung, any chance we can get a copy of that footage in the cameras native format (Media player does nasty things to footage quality, as can be seen from that trans-codec review I posted earlier)?

Thanks

Wayne.

Jony Upper · January 30th, 2006, 03:41 PM

Hello all,

with this links you can get the original movie files.

http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...060116baby.MP4

http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...60116child.MP4

The quality seems much better.

January 20th, 2006, 12:06 AM	#61
Jung Kyu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 143	. yes.. the whole clip is sony hdr-a1 hdr-hc1 also can perform Similar to this. this clip is converted to canopus hq codec 4:2:2 and upscale to 1920x1080 http://videopage.net/morita/Hi_Vision/8M_fujiwara.wmv

January 20th, 2006, 08:15 AM	#66
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	Great Family camera, not an ndie camera Ok, I think we might be jumping the Gun on this one, sure its a great little camera no disputes there, however for any real inde use I personally can not see it happen, perhaps others may do wonderful things with this camera. Anhar __________________ The IT Ninja Learn, Teach, Grow..

January 20th, 2006, 12:22 AM	#62
Jef Bryant Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 31	Very much looking forward to seeing user tests and straight footage from this little camera. I am a bit heartbroken that there apparently will be no european 25p version. Also wondering if there is a filter thread on the lens. Perhaps the WA adapter is proprietary? That would also be unfortunate. Looks pretty good otherwise, though!

January 20th, 2006, 02:59 AM	#63
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Yes, I'm very heartbroken, too. This would have been - as stated before - the perfect lens hack victim. Just imagin adapting it to Bolex or Beaulieu 16mm c-mount threads and using some nice little 16mm primes on them. Like a Schneider Kreuznach 1:0.95 25mm Hellooooo DOF! And it would look so cool (the 16mm primes are pretty small as well, would keep the form factor). If the pixels on the 1/2,5 " 5 MP Sensor are too small to have microlens in front of them, the Sanyo may tolerate the wide apperture and this plan could work. But maybe manufacturing is so advanced now that they can build such a small microlens structure. This would be good for the picture with the build in lens, but very bad for my purpose.

January 20th, 2006, 03:17 AM	#64
Hse Kha Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 195	Well finally I managed to see the sample clip. Instead of right clicking and saving as, I had to left click it and open it in WMP. That tricked worked. Thanks. Now to the footage - WOW! Amazing. Incredible colors, better than any 1 chiper I have seen. And the resolution is amazing as well. Yes there are artifacts. BUT remeber that this is a VC1 encoded clip and so we don't know which atifacts are associated with which enoding, since it was encoded twice - first by the camera and then by whoever coverted to clip to WMV. BUT Is this a prank? I mean seriously, how do we know that the Sanyo was really used for this clip??? It looks way too good. Maybe it is not a prank but an error and it is the footage of the Panasonic P2 HD Camera?

January 20th, 2006, 06:02 AM	#65
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Original *.mp4 (not reencoded!) clip 1280x720p30 from Sanyo HD1 exist?

January 20th, 2006, 08:59 AM	#67
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Just managed to download it, but can't get that WMV format to play properly (works best at 50% speed and drops the ball again at 25%, odd). I had little trouble playing the other HD1 native Mpeg4 clip though, any chance that we could get to see the original, there are a few things I would like to see if Mpeg4 is causing them? Was this shout in 9Mbps mode or 6Mbps 720p camera mode? Ok, poor latitude, but might be caused by the codec/player. Seen the dark pants blocking too, maybe also in the face. Sanyo could fix this with firmware change (worth contacting them to let them know). Noticed that big movements, like the hand, the hairs all blur out, codec or low frame rate? Hard to tell, could be media player. Otherwise I am impressed at what they can fit in 9Mbps, but I think h264 at 18-25Mbps would do. I have found that if you turn use overlays off in the player you get a more natural colour playback, and the edge of colour regions don't appear to change so harshly. There is also a selection on the MS player that turns off video smoothing. Jung, thanks for putting up the video. Wayne.

January 20th, 2006, 09:13 AM	#68
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Lens hacking would only affect the res not the dof. Might be a cool camera for an adapter however.Kurth

January 20th, 2006, 09:15 AM	#69
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Wayne, try last build MediaPlayerClassic6.4.8.7 or VLC player

January 21st, 2006, 05:35 AM	#71
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Yes SLR and condenser is possible, I was thinking of something else: If you can replace the original lens with a mount for prime lenses, you will get a shallower depth of field IF the primes have very wide apertures (wider than the build in lens). One example is the Drake cam (see Alternative Imaging methods). They get very shallow 35mm style DOF with a 2/3" sensor using primes with very wide apertures. The only reason they can do this, is because the sensor doesn't have a microlens-array in front of the silicone. But I don't want to extend this discussion too far. Just imagining how cool this little cam would be with small but fully manual lens for 16mm cameras on it.

January 21st, 2006, 05:42 AM	#72
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Sorry to tell you, but you can't change the DOF without a ground glass or other intermediate focal plane between the lens and the sensor. It's just not possible to change DOF with any combination of just lens's. I doubt that the Sanyo is stopped down much either. They want all the light they can get. So hoping that a F1.2 lens would help is probably futile. But when you get the Sanyo, are you really going to hack it's lens off? Really? -Les

January 21st, 2006, 06:30 AM	#73
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Les, you are right. If it comes with a 1.2 lens, it makes no sense at all. I think I am creating a bit of a misunderstanding. Obviously, the DOF of the camera won't change. What would chance would be the maximum aperture of the lens. That's what I was referring to. The picture of a 1/2,5" imaging sensor at 1.2 would probably have the same DOF as a 35mm film (not photo) stopped down to 8. (Not calculated, just an estimate - I can calculate precisely if requested). I would have hacked if the following three conditions: 1) PAL version with 25p 2) Aperture of build-in lens >= 1.8 3) live video out (to monitor on an external LCD screen) As 1) is probably not going to materialise, its purely hypothetical. Anyway, if someone would like to join my dreaming, feel free to email me.

January 22nd, 2006, 08:27 AM	#74
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Here is a conversation I am having with the akihabaranews guy, about the camera, he is waiting for a review unit. http://forum.akihabaranews.com/viewt...asc&highlight= Jung, any chance we can get a copy of that footage in the cameras native format (Media player does nasty things to footage quality, as can be seen from that trans-codec review I posted earlier)? Thanks Wayne.

January 30th, 2006, 03:41 PM	#75
Jony Upper Tourist Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Berlin germany Posts: 1	Hello all, with this links you can get the original movie files. http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...060116baby.MP4 http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...60116child.MP4 The quality seems much better.