Sanyo HD1 footage!

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 15th, 2006, 10:06 PM

I didn't get to shoot with this cam at CES, but did see what they had for demo footage on a big screen. It was ridiculously good without factoring in the price, and then with the price tossed on...was pretty impressive.

Steve Crisdale · January 16th, 2006, 12:27 AM

To all those folks having trouble using Windows Media Player 10 (WMP10)... Download the free - yes FREE Windows Media Player Classic AND/OR the free Video Lan Client (VLC) and your playback problems will be over.

I've never got Microsofts Media Player to work correctly, and I doubt it will ever be as stable as either of these free players!!

I haven't watched the Sanyo clip, and at 8Mbit it doesn't sound like it would hold up terribly well. Certainly no better than DVD quality - which for a HD/HDV camcorder isn't doing it any justice. It's just a "guide" for those who might be interested, but a full bitrate clip in the raw format as captured by the cam would be more enlightening.

Les Dit · January 16th, 2006, 12:48 AM

8 megabit wmv files can look very good. The sanyo video has a lot more information in it than a dvd.
Dvd's are about 7 megabit, with decade old mpeg2 compression technology.
Media 9 files can have close to twice the visual information content per given data rate, as the codec is a lot better than the old mpeg 2 stuff.

Too bad the HDV cameras are still using mpeg2.
-Les

Steve Crisdale · January 16th, 2006, 01:57 AM

Perhaps I should have said "8Mbit wouldn't do justice to the full bitrate of the original HD video".

I have never ever been able to get a 8Mbit WMV9 HD 1080 clip to look anywhere near as good as a 18Mbit WMV9 HD 1080 clip, regardless of the settings of the encoder.

That's why Kaku Ito's uncompressed or raw files straight from the cameras he has used prior to their release and posted here so generously have to date been the best indicator of actual HD/HDV performance I've seen.

WMV9's and other re-rendered, downsampled or otherwise "doctored" clips are great for giving an indication of what is possible; however, I'd suggest that only clips straight from the cam will truly represent what the camera can achieve.

Mind you, I'm not dissin' on the cam or it's performance. I may even go and get one to add to my HD/HDV cam collection!!

Jung Kyu · January 16th, 2006, 09:31 AM

i heard superman returns was shot on 12megas pixel camera.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/supermanreturns/hd/

if sanyo hd1 can output raw footage by usb2.0 it could compete with professional film camera.

Ron Evans · January 16th, 2006, 10:24 AM

Finally got it to play. I had originally just downloaded the file and then tried to play. This time I let MP10 download and then saved. It now plays just fine on my lowest powered Sempron 3000 with integrated graphics!! The image looks very good. I too would like to know how it performs in lower light levels. This technology with more capable lens and controls would be a very interesting addition and would give the latest HDV/P2 cameras a real run for their money. Certainly a lot easier to carry around than my FX1!!!! I have been looking for something to replace my Sony PC10 and this might just be the one.

Ron Evans

Ainslie Davies · January 16th, 2006, 02:31 PM

I think that I may have jumped the gun in my praise to this camera. Yes it would be great for $800 but there is alot of artifacting on skintones and solid colours. Take a look at how the dof is presented when shallow in the clip with the boy and the ice cream?

With the deal about the bitrate, this is only 1280x720 not 1920x1080 or 1440xXXX. 8mbs should not cause compression problems, have a look at the "Lucid" Clips with the FX1 at www.hd-channel.com/programme.html despite it's lack of english, I think you should get it. The clips there are just under 7mbs.

__________________
www.inasinglemoment.com - The Feature Film, footage up soon!

Ron Evans · January 16th, 2006, 02:50 PM

Well now that I have got it to play I don't see any of the artifacting your talking about. Could you be specific about what part of the image. I have played it several times now trying to see anything in the dark areas without seeing anything of concern. In fact the more I view the more impressed I am. The Samsung might be even better.

Ron Evans

Ainslie Davies · January 16th, 2006, 03:08 PM

Are you viewing on a 720p monitor? Try pausing at 6sec then have a look at the black pants to the right of the frame from 20-26sec. It's just me being picky but for the price, I would say nothing comes close!

Edit - It maybe looks like compression problems on camera because doesn't it use the less-than-perfect mpeg1?

__________________
www.inasinglemoment.com - The premiere feature film by d|p in HD

Ron Evans · January 16th, 2006, 03:28 PM

I have moved the file over to my editing computer and viewed it on my Dell2405 monitor and am even more impressed. However I do now see some shimmering on the green shirt of the boy with the icecream. Seems to occur when he brings the cone to his mouth so could be a shadowing effect. For the cost of the camera this is minor. In a $10000 camera I would be upset, maybe!!! Having looked at the baby again the detail in the trees in the far backround is very impressive though. I will really look forward to the summer!!! Samsung version is forcast for August in Canada not sure of the Sanyo.

Ron Evans

Ron Evans · January 16th, 2006, 03:42 PM

Ainslie
I don't see anything in the black pants. I have viewed on a crt monitor and my editing system Dell 2405. They and the jeans are out of focus as is the rest of the backround due to DoF but that's OK. The compression is Mpeg4 of some form. There is more in a thread under industry news with references. It is not stated as to what chip technology is being used but it is likely to be the chip from Ambarella considering the press and coincidence of price.

Ron Evans

Ron Evans · January 16th, 2006, 04:02 PM

Ainslie
Hi again. Yes I see what you are talking about. At about 23sec there are blockies on the black pants, still on the baby clip. Data rate is obviously not quite enough. Though this could be due to the re-encoding using WMV 9. The preferences show it to be a 1280x720, WMV 9.1, CBR at 8.19Mbs. The original MPEG4 could be a lot better.

Ron Evans

Steven White · January 16th, 2006, 04:07 PM

Wowzers that's impressive given the price.

-Steve

Keith Wakeham · January 16th, 2006, 05:41 PM

I have to say, for an $800 pricetag I'm very impressed. I just finally took a look at it after taking a break from working on some stuff and I have to say it looks pretty good.

I skimmed the thread but didn't see any mention, but this seems like it has to have been re-encoded from what the camcorder already put to sd card because I doubt it would write in wmv.

I see lots of possibilities for this camera. The engineer in me keeps thinking "Rip it apart, put it in a new housing, a lens mount..." then it trails off. If I wasn't so busy I'd be all over trying to get this camera.

Anyone got any raw footage from the camera or any other footage posted. Just curious.

Anhar Miah · January 17th, 2006, 10:18 AM

This is very impressive for such a small camera!

Have you guys seen the 0.6X wide lens adaptor they have made for this, it looks kinda cute when you put the 0.6X wide lens on :)

http://www.akihabaranews.com/news-10...+monster!.html

The footage seems to have a kinda filmic motion (probably due to the progressive nature).

I think I'll probably end up buying one of these, its kind of a go anywhere shoot anytime type cam, great for prosumers like us who EVEN when shooting family movies always have quailty in the back of our minds.

I think Sanyo must have understood that since people will view the footage on either a Computer or HDTV, it had to match peoples expectation and when viewed on a HDTV, it not be as forgiving as viewing on SD. One thing is for sure it looks alot better than a lot of miniDV.

Now when can I buy one in the UK?

Anhar

January 15th, 2006, 10:06 PM	#31
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	I didn't get to shoot with this cam at CES, but did see what they had for demo footage on a big screen. It was ridiculously good without factoring in the price, and then with the price tossed on...was pretty impressive. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 16th, 2006, 09:31 AM	#35
Jung Kyu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 143	. i heard superman returns was shot on 12megas pixel camera. http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/supermanreturns/hd/ if sanyo hd1 can output raw footage by usb2.0 it could compete with professional film camera.

January 16th, 2006, 02:31 PM	#37
Ainslie Davies Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 117	I think that I may have jumped the gun in my praise to this camera. Yes it would be great for $800 but there is alot of artifacting on skintones and solid colours. Take a look at how the dof is presented when shallow in the clip with the boy and the ice cream? With the deal about the bitrate, this is only 1280x720 not 1920x1080 or 1440xXXX. 8mbs should not cause compression problems, have a look at the "Lucid" Clips with the FX1 at www.hd-channel.com/programme.html despite it's lack of english, I think you should get it. The clips there are just under 7mbs. __________________ www.inasinglemoment.com - The Feature Film, footage up soon! __________________ Ainslie Davies - www.dualityproductions.com

January 16th, 2006, 03:08 PM	#39
Ainslie Davies Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 117	Are you viewing on a 720p monitor? Try pausing at 6sec then have a look at the black pants to the right of the frame from 20-26sec. It's just me being picky but for the price, I would say nothing comes close! Edit - It maybe looks like compression problems on camera because doesn't it use the less-than-perfect mpeg1? __________________ www.inasinglemoment.com - The premiere feature film by d\|p in HD __________________ Ainslie Davies - www.dualityproductions.com

January 16th, 2006, 05:41 PM	#44
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	I have to say, for an $800 pricetag I'm very impressed. I just finally took a look at it after taking a break from working on some stuff and I have to say it looks pretty good. I skimmed the thread but didn't see any mention, but this seems like it has to have been re-encoded from what the camcorder already put to sd card because I doubt it would write in wmv. I see lots of possibilities for this camera. The engineer in me keeps thinking "Rip it apart, put it in a new housing, a lens mount..." then it trails off. If I wasn't so busy I'd be all over trying to get this camera. Anyone got any raw footage from the camera or any other footage posted. Just curious. __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

January 16th, 2006, 12:27 AM	#32
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	To all those folks having trouble using Windows Media Player 10 (WMP10)... Download the free - yes FREE Windows Media Player Classic AND/OR the free Video Lan Client (VLC) and your playback problems will be over. I've never got Microsofts Media Player to work correctly, and I doubt it will ever be as stable as either of these free players!! I haven't watched the Sanyo clip, and at 8Mbit it doesn't sound like it would hold up terribly well. Certainly no better than DVD quality - which for a HD/HDV camcorder isn't doing it any justice. It's just a "guide" for those who might be interested, but a full bitrate clip in the raw format as captured by the cam would be more enlightening.

January 16th, 2006, 12:48 AM	#33
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	8 megabit wmv files can look very good. The sanyo video has a lot more information in it than a dvd. Dvd's are about 7 megabit, with decade old mpeg2 compression technology. Media 9 files can have close to twice the visual information content per given data rate, as the codec is a lot better than the old mpeg 2 stuff. Too bad the HDV cameras are still using mpeg2. -Les

January 16th, 2006, 01:57 AM	#34
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	Perhaps I should have said "8Mbit wouldn't do justice to the full bitrate of the original HD video". I have never ever been able to get a 8Mbit WMV9 HD 1080 clip to look anywhere near as good as a 18Mbit WMV9 HD 1080 clip, regardless of the settings of the encoder. That's why Kaku Ito's uncompressed or raw files straight from the cameras he has used prior to their release and posted here so generously have to date been the best indicator of actual HD/HDV performance I've seen. WMV9's and other re-rendered, downsampled or otherwise "doctored" clips are great for giving an indication of what is possible; however, I'd suggest that only clips straight from the cam will truly represent what the camera can achieve. Mind you, I'm not dissin' on the cam or it's performance. I may even go and get one to add to my HD/HDV cam collection!!

January 16th, 2006, 10:24 AM	#36
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Finally got it to play. I had originally just downloaded the file and then tried to play. This time I let MP10 download and then saved. It now plays just fine on my lowest powered Sempron 3000 with integrated graphics!! The image looks very good. I too would like to know how it performs in lower light levels. This technology with more capable lens and controls would be a very interesting addition and would give the latest HDV/P2 cameras a real run for their money. Certainly a lot easier to carry around than my FX1!!!! I have been looking for something to replace my Sony PC10 and this might just be the one. Ron Evans

January 16th, 2006, 02:50 PM	#38
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Well now that I have got it to play I don't see any of the artifacting your talking about. Could you be specific about what part of the image. I have played it several times now trying to see anything in the dark areas without seeing anything of concern. In fact the more I view the more impressed I am. The Samsung might be even better. Ron Evans

January 16th, 2006, 03:28 PM	#40
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I have moved the file over to my editing computer and viewed it on my Dell2405 monitor and am even more impressed. However I do now see some shimmering on the green shirt of the boy with the icecream. Seems to occur when he brings the cone to his mouth so could be a shadowing effect. For the cost of the camera this is minor. In a $10000 camera I would be upset, maybe!!! Having looked at the baby again the detail in the trees in the far backround is very impressive though. I will really look forward to the summer!!! Samsung version is forcast for August in Canada not sure of the Sanyo. Ron Evans

January 16th, 2006, 03:42 PM	#41
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Ainslie I don't see anything in the black pants. I have viewed on a crt monitor and my editing system Dell 2405. They and the jeans are out of focus as is the rest of the backround due to DoF but that's OK. The compression is Mpeg4 of some form. There is more in a thread under industry news with references. It is not stated as to what chip technology is being used but it is likely to be the chip from Ambarella considering the press and coincidence of price. Ron Evans

January 16th, 2006, 04:02 PM	#42
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Ainslie Hi again. Yes I see what you are talking about. At about 23sec there are blockies on the black pants, still on the baby clip. Data rate is obviously not quite enough. Though this could be due to the re-encoding using WMV 9. The preferences show it to be a 1280x720, WMV 9.1, CBR at 8.19Mbs. The original MPEG4 could be a lot better. Ron Evans

January 16th, 2006, 04:07 PM	#43
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	Wowzers that's impressive given the price. -Steve

January 17th, 2006, 10:18 AM	#45
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	This is very impressive for such a small camera! Have you guys seen the 0.6X wide lens adaptor they have made for this, it looks kinda cute when you put the 0.6X wide lens on :) http://www.akihabaranews.com/news-10...+monster!.html The footage seems to have a kinda filmic motion (probably due to the progressive nature). I think I'll probably end up buying one of these, its kind of a go anywhere shoot anytime type cam, great for prosumers like us who EVEN when shooting family movies always have quailty in the back of our minds. I think Sanyo must have understood that since people will view the footage on either a Computer or HDTV, it had to match peoples expectation and when viewed on a HDTV, it not be as forgiving as viewing on SD. One thing is for sure it looks alot better than a lot of miniDV. Now when can I buy one in the UK? Anhar __________________ The IT Ninja Learn, Teach, Grow..