Sanyo HD1 footage!

Mark Kubat · March 18th, 2006, 01:07 AM

Wow!

Even on my cruddy 2.0 GHz 1 gig RAM pentium 4, I'm able to edit the mp4 without too much pain...

I can't believe how easily the "format" is supported by Vegas 6.0d - wow - I'm sold.

This is my next cam! Whoa!

Nice work, Sanyo - I can't believe I'm typing this!

Graham Jones · March 18th, 2006, 07:39 AM

Yes, thanks to Vegas 6d posting with the Sanyo HD1 is a dream.

Remember when the JVC HD1 came out?

Peter Solmssen · March 18th, 2006, 01:19 PM

Mark and Graham: In what format are you rendering your Vegas 6.0d result? WMV9? I don't see another HD option.
How long does the rendering take? I am used to having renders to Architect Widescreen for DVD take about 4X the running time of the video, whereas WMV9 is more like 32X!

My renders to DVD look surprisingly good, but obviously not as good as the original.

This seems to be the central issue in getting the most out of the HD1.

Graham Jones · March 18th, 2006, 06:16 PM

Admittedly, I'm rendering in SD.

When DVDs truly go HD, I'll render in HD.

I imagine Vegas will let me do so as easily as it currently lets me render an SD DVD.

If I was mastering a professional HD job shot on the HD1 (which after a few weeks with the camera I don't reckon I would be) then yes, WMV9 might be the only HD output and is slow..

If I wanted to watch my footage on a HDTV I would use the camera as player - because of the component output, remote control and solid state build meaning I would not be shortening the life of the cam, like I would with the JVC HD1 because I would be using the heads more. I appreciate right now there is a problem, in that the this cam won't neccesarily re-admit footage manipulated on a computer and I hope this can be resolved.

Kaku Ito · March 19th, 2006, 07:59 AM

I went to see HD1 in person today at Bic Camera. By coincident, staff from Sanyo was there to promote the product. The product is very appealing, and I’ve been thinking it might be good to serve as sub-camera for Panasonic AG-HVX200.
They let me shoot in different modes there and I wanted to see how well it does in 480/60p and 720/30p. The samples provided on the web is reasonably good, but I wanted to see the real potential. Please remember that I do only bike action shooting, so to be able to shoot in fast panning is very important, so my comments are based on using in only for fast action video shooting.
To make the long story short, it won’t let you shoot like video camera, under fast pans, things get really blocky (mpeg compression), so you have to apply filmcam method for shooting. They had the HD LCD display connected there so I could monitor what I shot there, but the color looked very flat and I was very disappointed with the result.
Although, to me, the quality of the video was disappointing, but the potential of what Sanyo doing is very promising and you can use this cam for variety of purposes.
Also, the person was mentioning that the product is accepted very well in the market and they are planning to improve the quality of the video with faster SD cards and faster processor to do 1080 in the future.
If it was at least as good or close enough to DV anamorphic then I would have bought it, but it wasn’t quite good enough to mix with what I shoot with HVX200.

I played around with the clips provided on Japanese Sanyo site, placing them on 720/60p timeline on FCP5, it works flawlessly (with rendering of course). That was very nice. And using Kona LH and displaying the clips on HD LCD panel and downconverted SD monitor, the video image looked smudged on the HD LCD, and downconverted SD looks very good.
I’m pretty sure that they will improve the image quality on the next generation, so I’m very looking forward to it.

Wayne Morellini · March 21st, 2006, 09:30 AM

Kaku,

Good to see you here. I could have told you the results ;). If Sanyo could do 19-25Mb/s Mpeg4 that would solve many problems, if they could do that in h264, it would be even better.

We will have to see what the H264 cameras deliver. 15Mb/s+ is what they are talking about, but they also quote figures for 9 or 6Mb/s, I think, I hope not. I think you need at least 9Mb/s-25Mb/s h264.

Kaku,

I know that there are many PVR out there, and I was thinking of making a bullet camera using one of these (even three camera). Are there any mpeg2/4/h264 with decent bandwidth, or multiple channels?

Thanks

Wayne.

David Kennett · March 21st, 2006, 09:46 AM

Graham,

Regarding your comment on the camera's ability to read manipulated files: I remember seeing a little pgm somewhere that could restore JPEG files to a form that cameras could read. It looks like we could use the same thing for MPEGs

My HD1 should arrive tomorrow according to UPS. A 4GB card should be arriving from zipzoomfly as well ($150 - $30 rebate).

Graham Jones · March 21st, 2006, 01:25 PM

"I remember seeing a little pgm somewhere that could restore JPEG files to a form that cameras could read. It looks like we could use the same thing for MPEGs"

...yes, that's one of the things we need to make the Sanyo HD1 better!

Kaku Ito · March 21st, 2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Kaku,

Good to see you here. I could have told you the results ;). If Sanyo could do 19-25Mb/s Mpeg4 that would solve many problems, if they could do that in h264, it would be even better.

We will have to see what the H264 cameras deliver. 15Mb/s+ is what they are talking about, but they also quote figures for 9 or 6Mb/s, I think, I hope not. I think you need at least 9Mb/s-25Mb/s h264.

Kaku,

I know that there are many PVR out there, and I was thinking of making a bullet camera using one of these (even three camera). Are there any mpeg2/4/h264 with decent bandwidth, or multiple channels?

Thanks

Wayne.

I was there anyway for light excersize with my bike (like I did with FX1 at Sony Plaza), so no biggie. Yes, I think H.264 based ones are going to be great. MPEG4 seems like don't work so good for larger transfering rate.

If they have H.264 based PVR and I would be interested. I still use D-VHS time to time to record HD broadcast shows, but it would be nice if I can save it in H.264 file format. If I come across something like that, I will drop in to make a link.

Serge Victorovich · March 22nd, 2006, 02:56 AM

Hi Kaku!
If bypass mpeg4 compression and get component output from cmos sensor,
what is max fps? Only 30fps or possible ingest 720p60 using BM or AJA capture card?

Wayne Morellini · March 22nd, 2006, 07:04 AM

Kaku, don't you use those cigarette packet sized PVR units on your bullet cameras for bike mounting? That is what I meant, I am interested in making a 3chip HD cam out of thee pixel shifted bullet/box cams into 3 PVR to get high data-rate.

This is a consumer version, but the bullet ones are similar:
http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/...r_sony_psp.php

Serge, good point, does it do better uncompressed out?

Kaku Ito · March 22nd, 2006, 05:22 PM

Ah, didn't think about it, but I remember for sure that the live monitor was very good, if the component outs are uncompressed out then it should be interesting. I'm going to look into this...and the portable PVR. The thing is I didn't buy HD1 yet, but I'm going to ask magazine editor to get one for awhile from Sanyo.

Wayne Morellini · March 24th, 2006, 09:16 AM

I would get in contact with www.ambarella.com instead, to try to get in contact with the three confirmed h264 camera manufactures (and Samsung have reported they will be doing one) to get a review/feature on the technology.

Kaku Ito · March 25th, 2006, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

I would get in contact with www.ambarella.com instead, to try to get in contact with the three confirmed h264 camera manufactures (and Samsung have reported they will be doing one) to get a review/feature on the technology.

Samsung already have a model made for shooting onboard for x-sports, so it would be interesting when they come out with this chip.

Wayne Morellini · March 25th, 2006, 09:12 AM

We don't know which chip Samsung is using, they could be using a completely different chip, but if you have heard anything, please let us know ;)

They said March for Ambarella, and I have just spent a number of hours googling (again) for new pages, and nothing, so maybe it won't happen. There is a Taiwan office I found mentioned on a page.

March 18th, 2006, 01:07 AM	#376
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	I just played with the source files of "baby" in Vegas 6.0D - amazing! Wow! Even on my cruddy 2.0 GHz 1 gig RAM pentium 4, I'm able to edit the mp4 without too much pain... I can't believe how easily the "format" is supported by Vegas 6.0d - wow - I'm sold. This is my next cam! Whoa! Nice work, Sanyo - I can't believe I'm typing this!

March 18th, 2006, 07:39 AM	#377
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	Yes, thanks to Vegas 6d posting with the Sanyo HD1 is a dream. Remember when the JVC HD1 came out? __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

March 18th, 2006, 06:16 PM	#379
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	Admittedly, I'm rendering in SD. When DVDs truly go HD, I'll render in HD. I imagine Vegas will let me do so as easily as it currently lets me render an SD DVD. If I was mastering a professional HD job shot on the HD1 (which after a few weeks with the camera I don't reckon I would be) then yes, WMV9 might be the only HD output and is slow.. If I wanted to watch my footage on a HDTV I would use the camera as player - because of the component output, remote control and solid state build meaning I would not be shortening the life of the cam, like I would with the JVC HD1 because I would be using the heads more. I appreciate right now there is a problem, in that the this cam won't neccesarily re-admit footage manipulated on a computer and I hope this can be resolved. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com Last edited by Graham Jones; March 19th, 2006 at 08:40 AM.

March 19th, 2006, 07:59 AM	#380
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I went to see HD1 in person today at Bic Camera. By coincident, staff from Sanyo was there to promote the product. The product is very appealing, and I’ve been thinking it might be good to serve as sub-camera for Panasonic AG-HVX200. They let me shoot in different modes there and I wanted to see how well it does in 480/60p and 720/30p. The samples provided on the web is reasonably good, but I wanted to see the real potential. Please remember that I do only bike action shooting, so to be able to shoot in fast panning is very important, so my comments are based on using in only for fast action video shooting. To make the long story short, it won’t let you shoot like video camera, under fast pans, things get really blocky (mpeg compression), so you have to apply filmcam method for shooting. They had the HD LCD display connected there so I could monitor what I shot there, but the color looked very flat and I was very disappointed with the result. Although, to me, the quality of the video was disappointing, but the potential of what Sanyo doing is very promising and you can use this cam for variety of purposes. Also, the person was mentioning that the product is accepted very well in the market and they are planning to improve the quality of the video with faster SD cards and faster processor to do 1080 in the future. If it was at least as good or close enough to DV anamorphic then I would have bought it, but it wasn’t quite good enough to mix with what I shoot with HVX200. I played around with the clips provided on Japanese Sanyo site, placing them on 720/60p timeline on FCP5, it works flawlessly (with rendering of course). That was very nice. And using Kona LH and displaying the clips on HD LCD panel and downconverted SD monitor, the video image looked smudged on the HD LCD, and downconverted SD looks very good. I’m pretty sure that they will improve the image quality on the next generation, so I’m very looking forward to it. Last edited by Kaku Ito; March 19th, 2006 at 07:13 PM.

March 21st, 2006, 09:46 AM	#382
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	Graham, Regarding your comment on the camera's ability to read manipulated files: I remember seeing a little pgm somewhere that could restore JPEG files to a form that cameras could read. It looks like we could use the same thing for MPEGs My HD1 should arrive tomorrow according to UPS. A 4GB card should be arriving from zipzoomfly as well ($150 - $30 rebate). __________________ Dave

March 18th, 2006, 01:19 PM	#378
Peter Solmssen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 133	Mark and Graham: In what format are you rendering your Vegas 6.0d result? WMV9? I don't see another HD option. How long does the rendering take? I am used to having renders to Architect Widescreen for DVD take about 4X the running time of the video, whereas WMV9 is more like 32X! My renders to DVD look surprisingly good, but obviously not as good as the original. This seems to be the central issue in getting the most out of the HD1.

March 21st, 2006, 09:30 AM	#381
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Kaku, Good to see you here. I could have told you the results ;). If Sanyo could do 19-25Mb/s Mpeg4 that would solve many problems, if they could do that in h264, it would be even better. We will have to see what the H264 cameras deliver. 15Mb/s+ is what they are talking about, but they also quote figures for 9 or 6Mb/s, I think, I hope not. I think you need at least 9Mb/s-25Mb/s h264. Kaku, I know that there are many PVR out there, and I was thinking of making a bullet camera using one of these (even three camera). Are there any mpeg2/4/h264 with decent bandwidth, or multiple channels? Thanks Wayne.

March 21st, 2006, 01:25 PM	#383
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	"I remember seeing a little pgm somewhere that could restore JPEG files to a form that cameras could read. It looks like we could use the same thing for MPEGs" ...yes, that's one of the things we need to make the Sanyo HD1 better! __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

March 22nd, 2006, 02:56 AM	#385
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Hi Kaku! If bypass mpeg4 compression and get component output from cmos sensor, what is max fps? Only 30fps or possible ingest 720p60 using BM or AJA capture card?

March 22nd, 2006, 07:04 AM	#386
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Kaku, don't you use those cigarette packet sized PVR units on your bullet cameras for bike mounting? That is what I meant, I am interested in making a 3chip HD cam out of thee pixel shifted bullet/box cams into 3 PVR to get high data-rate. This is a consumer version, but the bullet ones are similar: http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/...r_sony_psp.php Serge, good point, does it do better uncompressed out?

March 22nd, 2006, 05:22 PM	#387
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Ah, didn't think about it, but I remember for sure that the live monitor was very good, if the component outs are uncompressed out then it should be interesting. I'm going to look into this...and the portable PVR. The thing is I didn't buy HD1 yet, but I'm going to ask magazine editor to get one for awhile from Sanyo.

March 24th, 2006, 09:16 AM	#388
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I would get in contact with www.ambarella.com instead, to try to get in contact with the three confirmed h264 camera manufactures (and Samsung have reported they will be doing one) to get a review/feature on the technology.

March 25th, 2006, 09:12 AM	#390
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	We don't know which chip Samsung is using, they could be using a completely different chip, but if you have heard anything, please let us know ;) They said March for Ambarella, and I have just spent a number of hours googling (again) for new pages, and nothing, so maybe it won't happen. There is a Taiwan office I found mentioned on a page.