Attention serious documentary filmmakers!

Chris Harding · August 3rd, 2012, 05:39 AM

Hi Lynne

Bothe Nigel Barker and Noa Put sing the praises of the Yamaha C24 recorder!! They have a post in the wedding forum called "Recording Speeches"

Renton? Apart from anything else the GoPro is tons of fun and that's what holidays are about. The only thing so far that has disappointed me is the LCD BacPac....I rarely use mine so it might be time to put it on eBay and buy some more exciting mounts...I can easily review footage with the cable and external LCD too and that was only $35!!!

Got a wedding in the afternoon tomorrow so the Hero will be up on a light stand again doing a semi aerial shot!!! Great as a backup too!!

Chris

Renton Maclachlan · August 3rd, 2012, 05:55 AM

I've got the LCD Backpac and think it is ok. I didn't have it when I was skiing so not sure how it would go in that type of situation, but I have liked framing a shot with it the few times I have done so...I have it on the camera all the time now, and the camera goes with me most times/places now. Who knows what you may be able to film...its so easy to carry and don't have to worry about it getting damaged.

Chris Harding · August 3rd, 2012, 08:34 AM

Renton

I can see that you have a new love in your life now that goes with you everywhere!! They addictive cameras aren't they. Thanks to you, I now am compelled to buy the new underwater housing, ready for Summer which hopefully isn't too far away.

What I'd love to see is a semi-water/splash proof external mic that can plug in the skeleton case and give a little better audio ....I wonder if those tiny stereo mics that used to sell as mics for the little MiniDisk recorders would work....does anyone know what mics work well?? I have a dynamiv lav mic but it doesn't work at all with the camera..I would suspect it would have to be a powered mic???

Chris

Lynne Whelden · August 3rd, 2012, 10:07 AM

Two observations...
One, converting the Hero footage to black and white certainly elevates the footage to a whole other level. An effect worth pondering.

Two, I tested a bunch of external mics and posted my results on another very active GoPro site from down under. I came to the conclusion no mic can overcome the basic noise level built into the current editions of Hero cameras. Very noisy preamps. An AGC that's out of control. Unless you're planning to use a mic to constantly shout on the soundtrack, it's probably not worth wasting money on anything other than the bare mic that comes built-in.

Steve Benjamin · August 3rd, 2012, 12:11 PM

You might find this interesting on oliviatech review website OliviaTech GoPro HERO 2 with Boompole and BlurFix Flat Lens Housing

Renton Maclachlan · August 3rd, 2012, 05:54 PM

Chris. Here's something more to spend your money on... :-)

Hooded Silicone Covers for GoPro HD
XSories Hooded Silicone Cover for GoPro HD - Product Reviews - PointofViewCameras Vancouver BC Canada

I got one of these to carry all the bits...Pelican knock off...
Kincrome Water Proof Safe Case Medium. #51011

Perhaps this...
UNRULY - HEADCASE + HEADGEAR Housings for GoPro by /CLARK/ — Kickstarter

Renton Maclachlan · August 3rd, 2012, 06:21 PM

Also...
UShot

Chris Harding · August 3rd, 2012, 07:16 PM

Hi Renton

Thanks for the links and thanks to Lynne for the mic comments too!!

I'm using an aluminium case from Bunnings for the Hero and it's already full..it was a cheaper option at $29.00 and I added a chunk of foam from the foam shop up the road. If you go this option make sure you buy the very light closed cell foam that's quite stiff ..it's also easy to cut!!

OK, seems like the Hero has the same audio issues as DSLR's...so a Recorder is the answer then?

I have never used mine for main audio but I do use the audio it produces just for syncing with other footage

Chris

Renton Maclachlan · August 3rd, 2012, 07:41 PM

External mic...

Better GoPro Sound with the Sony ECM DS70P - YouTube

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sony+ecm-ds70p

Chris Harding · August 3rd, 2012, 08:59 PM

The Sony mic seems to lose all the bass response judging from the video.

My mate Philip in the UK uses a AT shotgun mic with his cameras and he seems pretty happy with the outcome. Then again you really don't want anything too big otherwise you are defeating the portability of the unit. My Rodes are already modified for permanent XLR connections on the big cameras so I can't try those either!! All three of my wireless receivers are also XLR output too. I must admit I don't like using a recorder for interviews as you have to re-sync the audio in post and that might involve a bit of adjust with long interviews..I guess short ones would be fine but I still prefer to work with synced audio

These guys have a raw mic and also a mic with a windscreen.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GoPro-Mic...item41662d4179

Chris

Lynne Whelden · August 5th, 2012, 05:42 AM

Referring back to the youtube that had been converted to black and white, perhaps one reason why it stood out to me was because the removal of color then put the GoPro footage on par with any other camera! Which maybe is a poor testimony for the Hero's overall image quality but the colors have always looked rather flat to me. Maybe the protunes upgrade will address that issue?

As for handheld recorders, I've tried to track down a Brandon T. Hickey who wrote an article called "Audio to Go" in last month's Digital Video magazine. I haven't been able to get an email address for him, however. But that's the question I'd like to pose to him...what handheld recorder under $300 has the cleanest sound when all else is total quiet. Just recording "room noise" or natural sounds outside. The meter's not even moving. What sounds the cleanest, without white noise or static? (My old Zoom H2 wasn't clean at all under such conditions.)
I'd crawl over broken glass to find a "cheap" recorder like that! Yes, I know I could pay thousands to find a high end recorder that delivers such results. But cheap, is it possible?

Nigel Barker · August 5th, 2012, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynne Whelden

I'd crawl over broken glass to find a "cheap" recorder like that!

Is this part of the pitch for your 'Extreme Backpacking' documentary:-)

Lynne Whelden · August 5th, 2012, 07:27 AM

Ha! Actually,that's always been my dilemma. Embracing lightweight backpacking as I do (necessarily so), how can I hike a trail and make a video at the same time without violating my own principles?
Thus the search for the ultimate lightweight video "studio."
Which is why it's hard to ignore Hero, in spite of its serious and many shortcomings.

When I started making backpacking videos back in the mid-80s, I used 8-pound super 8mm film cameras and 12-pound tripods...strapped to my pack. That's 20 pounds!!! It was impossible, I quickly found out. Later on hi-8mm video bailed me out but only slightly. Between the camera and lighter tripods or even the Steadycam JR, I was still carrying 10 pounds of gear in my pack that was totally unrelated to the strenuous and taxing hike itself. (We're talking many weeks or even months of long-distance hiking for some projects I undertook.)
Fast-forward to now, 25 years later, where my body has sufficiently broken down (herniated discs, gimpy knees, neuroma-plagued feet). If there's any hope of carrying on, it's only going to happen if I can find some camera and tripod and recorder whose TOTAL weight is under 2 pounds. That's including batteries and accessories.
That's my dilemma.

Chris Harding · August 5th, 2012, 08:01 AM

Hey Lynne

Getting old really sucks doesn't it but we still stuggle on and act as if we are still in our 20's (I turn 66 this month BTW!!) I'm still reasonably OK but the wife also has a dicky knee and the same foot complaint.

I was very pleasantly surprised yesterday when I was playing with some video done on a little Panasonic GH1 (it has been hacked to shoot at a bitrate higher than my big cameras) and I just relied on the tiny stereo mic on the top of the camera...it's audio is REALLY good and certainly good enough to do close interviews. I was quite surprised at the quality!!! There you have a camera that has pretty good built-in audio and awesome image quality. However I find it rather "fiddly" to use sadly and you still need to focus now and again as the AF hunts a bit. You certainly wouldn't have an IQ issue with that though and audio is excellent.

How about a wireless lav mic like the VHF Azdens...I use one of my old ones as a comm unit between me and my second shooter but they would be great for interviews. There is not much better than doing an interview with a lav right under the subject chin for decent audio!!

Chris

Lynne Whelden · August 5th, 2012, 08:16 AM

I suppose if I was going to go in the direction of a GH1, I'd probably stick with the tried and true Sony camcorders as I've used in past projects. Maybe my search for a true "pocket studio" will go nowhere but that's what I've been researching. Thus the Hero...
On my last project (which ended up on blu-ray), I used the Sony HC-3 with its wireless mic system. It was effective and convenient and cost-effective, altho' hardly high-end audio- or video-wise.

August 3rd, 2012, 05:39 AM	#31
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Hi Lynne Bothe Nigel Barker and Noa Put sing the praises of the Yamaha C24 recorder!! They have a post in the wedding forum called "Recording Speeches" Renton? Apart from anything else the GoPro is tons of fun and that's what holidays are about. The only thing so far that has disappointed me is the LCD BacPac....I rarely use mine so it might be time to put it on eBay and buy some more exciting mounts...I can easily review footage with the cable and external LCD too and that was only $35!!! Got a wedding in the afternoon tomorrow so the Hero will be up on a light stand again doing a semi aerial shot!!! Great as a backup too!! Chris

August 3rd, 2012, 05:55 AM	#32
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! I've got the LCD Backpac and think it is ok. I didn't have it when I was skiing so not sure how it would go in that type of situation, but I have liked framing a shot with it the few times I have done so...I have it on the camera all the time now, and the camera goes with me most times/places now. Who knows what you may be able to film...its so easy to carry and don't have to worry about it getting damaged.

August 3rd, 2012, 08:34 AM	#33
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Renton I can see that you have a new love in your life now that goes with you everywhere!! They addictive cameras aren't they. Thanks to you, I now am compelled to buy the new underwater housing, ready for Summer which hopefully isn't too far away. What I'd love to see is a semi-water/splash proof external mic that can plug in the skeleton case and give a little better audio ....I wonder if those tiny stereo mics that used to sell as mics for the little MiniDisk recorders would work....does anyone know what mics work well?? I have a dynamiv lav mic but it doesn't work at all with the camera..I would suspect it would have to be a powered mic??? Chris

August 3rd, 2012, 10:07 AM	#34
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Two observations... One, converting the Hero footage to black and white certainly elevates the footage to a whole other level. An effect worth pondering. Two, I tested a bunch of external mics and posted my results on another very active GoPro site from down under. I came to the conclusion no mic can overcome the basic noise level built into the current editions of Hero cameras. Very noisy preamps. An AGC that's out of control. Unless you're planning to use a mic to constantly shout on the soundtrack, it's probably not worth wasting money on anything other than the bare mic that comes built-in.

August 3rd, 2012, 12:11 PM	#35
Steve Benjamin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: morbihan/france and enfield/uk Posts: 42	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! You might find this interesting on oliviatech review website OliviaTech GoPro HERO 2 with Boompole and BlurFix Flat Lens Housing

August 3rd, 2012, 05:54 PM	#36
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Chris. Here's something more to spend your money on... :-) Hooded Silicone Covers for GoPro HD XSories Hooded Silicone Cover for GoPro HD - Product Reviews - PointofViewCameras Vancouver BC Canada I got one of these to carry all the bits...Pelican knock off... Kincrome Water Proof Safe Case Medium. #51011 Perhaps this... UNRULY - HEADCASE + HEADGEAR Housings for GoPro by /CLARK/ — Kickstarter

August 3rd, 2012, 06:21 PM	#37
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Also... UShot

August 3rd, 2012, 07:16 PM	#38
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Hi Renton Thanks for the links and thanks to Lynne for the mic comments too!! I'm using an aluminium case from Bunnings for the Hero and it's already full..it was a cheaper option at $29.00 and I added a chunk of foam from the foam shop up the road. If you go this option make sure you buy the very light closed cell foam that's quite stiff ..it's also easy to cut!! OK, seems like the Hero has the same audio issues as DSLR's...so a Recorder is the answer then? I have never used mine for main audio but I do use the audio it produces just for syncing with other footage Chris

August 3rd, 2012, 07:41 PM	#39
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! External mic... Better GoPro Sound with the Sony ECM DS70P - YouTube http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sony+ecm-ds70p

August 3rd, 2012, 08:59 PM	#40
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! The Sony mic seems to lose all the bass response judging from the video. My mate Philip in the UK uses a AT shotgun mic with his cameras and he seems pretty happy with the outcome. Then again you really don't want anything too big otherwise you are defeating the portability of the unit. My Rodes are already modified for permanent XLR connections on the big cameras so I can't try those either!! All three of my wireless receivers are also XLR output too. I must admit I don't like using a recorder for interviews as you have to re-sync the audio in post and that might involve a bit of adjust with long interviews..I guess short ones would be fine but I still prefer to work with synced audio These guys have a raw mic and also a mic with a windscreen. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GoPro-Mic...item41662d4179 Chris Last edited by Chris Harding; August 3rd, 2012 at 09:55 PM.

August 5th, 2012, 05:42 AM	#41
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Referring back to the youtube that had been converted to black and white, perhaps one reason why it stood out to me was because the removal of color then put the GoPro footage on par with any other camera! Which maybe is a poor testimony for the Hero's overall image quality but the colors have always looked rather flat to me. Maybe the protunes upgrade will address that issue? As for handheld recorders, I've tried to track down a Brandon T. Hickey who wrote an article called "Audio to Go" in last month's Digital Video magazine. I haven't been able to get an email address for him, however. But that's the question I'd like to pose to him...what handheld recorder under $300 has the cleanest sound when all else is total quiet. Just recording "room noise" or natural sounds outside. The meter's not even moving. What sounds the cleanest, without white noise or static? (My old Zoom H2 wasn't clean at all under such conditions.) I'd crawl over broken glass to find a "cheap" recorder like that! Yes, I know I could pay thousands to find a high end recorder that delivers such results. But cheap, is it possible?

August 5th, 2012, 07:27 AM	#43
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Ha! Actually,that's always been my dilemma. Embracing lightweight backpacking as I do (necessarily so), how can I hike a trail and make a video at the same time without violating my own principles? Thus the search for the ultimate lightweight video "studio." Which is why it's hard to ignore Hero, in spite of its serious and many shortcomings. When I started making backpacking videos back in the mid-80s, I used 8-pound super 8mm film cameras and 12-pound tripods...strapped to my pack. That's 20 pounds!!! It was impossible, I quickly found out. Later on hi-8mm video bailed me out but only slightly. Between the camera and lighter tripods or even the Steadycam JR, I was still carrying 10 pounds of gear in my pack that was totally unrelated to the strenuous and taxing hike itself. (We're talking many weeks or even months of long-distance hiking for some projects I undertook.) Fast-forward to now, 25 years later, where my body has sufficiently broken down (herniated discs, gimpy knees, neuroma-plagued feet). If there's any hope of carrying on, it's only going to happen if I can find some camera and tripod and recorder whose TOTAL weight is under 2 pounds. That's including batteries and accessories. That's my dilemma.

August 5th, 2012, 08:01 AM	#44
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! Hey Lynne Getting old really sucks doesn't it but we still stuggle on and act as if we are still in our 20's (I turn 66 this month BTW!!) I'm still reasonably OK but the wife also has a dicky knee and the same foot complaint. I was very pleasantly surprised yesterday when I was playing with some video done on a little Panasonic GH1 (it has been hacked to shoot at a bitrate higher than my big cameras) and I just relied on the tiny stereo mic on the top of the camera...it's audio is REALLY good and certainly good enough to do close interviews. I was quite surprised at the quality!!! There you have a camera that has pretty good built-in audio and awesome image quality. However I find it rather "fiddly" to use sadly and you still need to focus now and again as the AF hunts a bit. You certainly wouldn't have an IQ issue with that though and audio is excellent. How about a wireless lav mic like the VHF Azdens...I use one of my old ones as a comm unit between me and my second shooter but they would be great for interviews. There is not much better than doing an interview with a lav right under the subject chin for decent audio!! Chris

August 5th, 2012, 08:16 AM	#45
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers! I suppose if I was going to go in the direction of a GH1, I'd probably stick with the tried and true Sony camcorders as I've used in past projects. Maybe my search for a true "pocket studio" will go nowhere but that's what I've been researching. Thus the Hero... On my last project (which ended up on blu-ray), I used the Sony HC-3 with its wireless mic system. It was effective and convenient and cost-effective, altho' hardly high-end audio- or video-wise.