Sneak Peek at Sony POV

Patrick R. Grier · October 12th, 2012, 10:35 AM

I bought the Sony Action Camera
Mounted it atop my helmet for single track mountin bike riding through the forest.
The stedy shot was nice, but does not work at 170 degrees in full HD, next step down it does.
The audio was muffled in the clear plastic case but not as bad as it could be.
I edited the shots in Premiere Elements 10
Burned it to an AVCHD DVD.
And I was very disappointed;
Lots of Artifacts popping on and off down the trail.
Looks fine if I don't travel down the trail.
What good is that?
I also connected the camera directly to the Sony TV via HDMI
To view the shots right from the camera.
The artifacts were there as well, though smaller.
I assume the problem is the massive amounts of detail in the trail shot.
Video chip cannot deal with it all.
Also the helmet mount is nice in some ways but inadequate in others.
Helmet mounts need to be movable in all planes.
I cannot mount a camera on the top, it will be hit by branches.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Bray

Looks like Sony is getting into the POV market. Their not currently disclosing much in the way of details at this point but it looks as though it will use Sony’s SteadyShot image stabilization, Exmor R CMOS image sensor, and have an ultra-wide angle Carl Zeiss Tessar lens. The following links provide a little bit more information as well as pictures. Looks pretty interesting.

FIRST LOOK: Sony’s new action camera SONY make.believe

Sony's Action Cam prototype is incredibly small, we go fingers-on at CE Week in NYC -- Engadget

James Harring · October 14th, 2012, 06:55 AM

I just got back hiking Big Round Top trail @ Gettysburg. Shot a little and will try to post later on once I get time to get organized. Immediate impressions:
1) Walk only with steadyshot on, really could tell the difference... goes from marginal --> usable.
2) I need to stick a bubble level on it somehow.
3) Don't shoot into the sun, flares like crazy (to be expected).
4) Some pixelating observed in fast moving complicated video.
5) Fogs in the case in high humidity (I was onboard a schooner at the time), wished I had even Gopro defog sheets. However, the video is still usable, though not optimum.

I held it in my hand down by my waist, no case. I could not use the monitor, since my pathetic Motoblur 520 Android keeps losing the connection. (I think it's the phone, not the camera, as I get CPU 100% warnings on the phone.)

I will hold off on other comments until I get more time to look, I'm overall glad I purchased it as I got some shots I would not have otherwise have been able to obtain.

Lynne Whelden · October 14th, 2012, 08:15 AM

These field tests are very informative as they echo my own concerns (not having bought the Action Cam yet). I anticipate using the camera with the headband mount too. I can only imagine it will be tilted or oriented at angles (unbeknownst to me) that will make me moan and groan when I look at it later. (Hard to imagine how to correct that without holding your head so stiff you'd end up with a neck ache while looking like a jerk.)
As for lens flare, would a home-made device on the top of the housing/camera suffice to block rays or would that become visible in the picture?
Very odd that 16Mbps can't handle fine detail in motion. Why would Sony choose that rate knowing it's not up to the task?

Woody Sanford · October 14th, 2012, 10:51 AM

While I'm very happy with the camera so far, it is obvious that there is room for some much needed improvement/advancement of the unit and accessories.

The color of the picture is very strong towards blue as it has been mentioned before. I'm starting to believe it could be a lens coating as I'm finding the worst white balance issues have been associated with tungsten light ranges and it pulls a nice blue sky like its polarized the majority of the time. Having something like that fixed in a lens coating will cause limitations where as having it in a filter would allow us to use it or not. I really don't see a filter system as being difficult to produce. It would just take a new front door with a threaded mount. Due to the underwater focus issues, we are in need of a new front door with a flat lens anyway, it could be incorporated in that.

Shooting outdoors produces a varying amount of white balance and exposure issues. I think it would be nice if we could lock white balance and gain on certain settings or allow auto rather than just have have the camera adjust as you pass through shadows and such, so we could actually set it for the dominate values of the environment. Something like that should be able to just be a firmware fix.

Like I said, I very happy with the camera so far and I'm having a lot of fun with it. The ability to frame up with the WiFi feature is the bomb and why I never really got into these types of cameras when I got the first gopro model.

I'm sure Sony isn't done yet and anything they do from this point is just frosting on the cake, so to speak. So I'm hopeful that things will just get better. So far its a very useful tool, just that there is a learning curve as to how you can use it to get footage you can use but any improvements will only expand that for sure.

Lynne Whelden · October 14th, 2012, 11:33 AM

I hope you're right about Sony responding to these issues. But what sort of evidence is there that they are really that concerned about a camera so "low" on their feeding chain? A $200 camera isn't going to be a big money-maker so why should they lose sleep over this? My fear is that this is as good as it's going to get. Unless someone knows of firmware issues that were "quickly responded to" in previous consumer-level cameras? And if and when they do respond, is it a behind-the-scenes fix or do they announce it?
This is where GoPro has an advantage as a privately owned business with some real faces and names at the top who have to live with their neighbors who probably own a Hero.

Woody Sanford · October 14th, 2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynne Whelden

I hope you're right about Sony responding to these issues. But what sort of evidence is there that they are really that concerned about a camera so "low" on their feeding chain? A $200 camera isn't going to be a big money-maker so why should they lose sleep over this? My fear is that this is as good as it's going to get. Unless someone knows of firmware issues that were "quickly responded to" in previous consumer-level cameras? And if and when they do respond, is it a behind-the-scenes fix or do they announce it?
This is where GoPro has an advantage as a privately owned business with some real faces and names at the top who have to live with their neighbors who probably own a Hero.

There are already more accessories starting to show up such as the LCD module and rumors of new front doors for housing. The flip out LCD for monitoring video leads me to believe there are intentions for this camera to be somewhat capable in place of a full fledged consumer video camera (the touristy type).

Obviously Sony saw the market as sizable enough to be worth competing in. In order to do that though, they do have to "Compete". It looks like they intend to do so at the "Action Cam" platform and also expand beyond that leading towards a dual purpose. They really did hit a home run with the mic's and audio performance for a 200 dollar camera. They have nothing to do there for use of the camera as a camcorder but to pull that off, they will need to make some firmware adjustments.

GoPro has a strong foothold and has already had much consumer feedback of how they/we would use the camera. Sony is just now getting that information to work with. I really don't think the ability to make money in this category of camera is solely based on the unit itself but more so on the accessories. Widen the use of the product and sell packages, so even though its a 200 dollar camera, you are actually selling a 4-500 dollar kit that is taylored by each consumer when its all said and done. They seem to be headed in a very modular direction and from my experience in manufacturing I would feel pretty safe to bet lunch that the mark up on the accessories is significant.

It is a very handy unit. They have taken a lot out of all the BS a tourist needs to learn for vacation videos. It spits out MP4 ready for Youtube. A little more editing capability in Play Memories Home and the majority of people are happy, if they are not all ready. The ease of use is there, cost is there all they need is a indoor "Birthday" setting in the firmware, a flat lens door for under water and every grandma and parent will have to have one. Hopefully those of use that use it as a creative tool will benefit from what they need to do to compete in the market.

Lynne Whelden · October 14th, 2012, 12:51 PM

I hope you're right.
My concern is that those "grandma and parent" consumers won't care about any of this stuff (blue shift, pixelation). To make matters worse, Sony probably KNOWS they won't care. "So why should we care?" the Sony executives say with a smile at the board meeting.

Woody Sanford · October 14th, 2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynne Whelden

I hope you're right.
My concern is that those "grandma and parent" consumers won't care about any of this stuff (blue shift, pixelation). To make matters worse, Sony probably KNOWS they won't care. "So why should we care?" the Sony executives say with a smile at the board meeting.

I sure hope I'm not just day dreaming either. :-) But I really think quality of the picture the average guy ( or Grandma) get is going to be a part of the competition in this category and with what I've seen of white balance indoors, it warrants a firmware adjustment on that alone. I don't think Nana will be happy with the "Blue Shift", first her hair now this? ;-)

Lynne Whelden · October 15th, 2012, 03:16 PM

This has been a long and very informative discussion.
Anybody who's a user willing to take a stab at summing up the Action Cam at this point in time? Seems appropriate at this moment, especially considering a Hero 3 is looming on the horizon (supposedly smaller and lighter and better in low light)...

Don Litten · October 15th, 2012, 07:42 PM

Lynne, first, I doubt the GP3 is right around the corner. Maybe a year before it's in your hand. Second, it'll be buggy for a long time.

To sum up the Sony...it's got some problems. It fogs badly and way over saturates and sharpens the images.
The case and mounts need some redesign plus a few personal gripes I have.

The good about the Sony is it seems reliable and has much better lowlight images and is extremely handy to get into action.

IMO, the best bet right now is still the GoPro HD2
I may sell my Sony!

Lynne Whelden · October 16th, 2012, 06:34 AM

That's a rather sobering assessment!
Of course, the grass will always greener on the other side of the fence (re: Hero 3). Nevertheless, the Hero will still be shackled with its clumsy "boxy" design and its audio will (likely) be awful. In those two areas the Sony shines.
Anybody else care to come to Sony's rescue?

Don Litten · October 16th, 2012, 10:26 AM

PM Me if you decide you want one Lynn.
I'm about ready to part with it.

Duane Steiner · October 16th, 2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynne Whelden

That's a rather sobering assessment!
Of course, the grass will always greener on the other side of the fence (re: Hero 3). Nevertheless, the Hero will still be shackled with its clumsy "boxy" design and its audio will (likely) be awful. In those two areas the Sony shines.
Anybody else care to come to Sony's rescue?

I feel that the camera's output is very good (comparing to the other POV I have: Contour HD, GoPro HD, Swann HD) and the features are nice. But I do not like the case and the way it mounts. I dislike the GoPro case and mount, but at least with it you can have the camera flip the image. Also the Sony case allows for to much heat build up. I am hoping that more mount options become available for the Sony and that they add a flip feature.

Duane Steiner · October 16th, 2012, 10:43 AM

My friend did another video with the Sony on a motorcycle.

Woody Sanford · October 16th, 2012, 11:19 AM

Duane,
I can hear that same "Rattling" from the vibration in the housing in your motorcycle video that I got in the boat. I went to Ben Franklin craft store and found some thin adhesive backed foam that is much like what Sony puts in the case but just a tad thinner. I cut strips about 1/4" wide and put one on each side towards the front and it took care of the noise and really improved things. The foam is cheap and about 2 bucks for a big sheet. I used the foam as it wouldn't absorb a bunch of extra moisture and add to the fogging issue in humid areas.

October 14th, 2012, 06:55 AM	#152
James Harring Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 210	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV (hiking) I just got back hiking Big Round Top trail @ Gettysburg. Shot a little and will try to post later on once I get time to get organized. Immediate impressions: 1) Walk only with steadyshot on, really could tell the difference... goes from marginal --> usable. 2) I need to stick a bubble level on it somehow. 3) Don't shoot into the sun, flares like crazy (to be expected). 4) Some pixelating observed in fast moving complicated video. 5) Fogs in the case in high humidity (I was onboard a schooner at the time), wished I had even Gopro defog sheets. However, the video is still usable, though not optimum. I held it in my hand down by my waist, no case. I could not use the monitor, since my pathetic Motoblur 520 Android keeps losing the connection. (I think it's the phone, not the camera, as I get CPU 100% warnings on the phone.) I will hold off on other comments until I get more time to look, I'm overall glad I purchased it as I got some shots I would not have otherwise have been able to obtain.

October 14th, 2012, 08:15 AM	#153
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV These field tests are very informative as they echo my own concerns (not having bought the Action Cam yet). I anticipate using the camera with the headband mount too. I can only imagine it will be tilted or oriented at angles (unbeknownst to me) that will make me moan and groan when I look at it later. (Hard to imagine how to correct that without holding your head so stiff you'd end up with a neck ache while looking like a jerk.) As for lens flare, would a home-made device on the top of the housing/camera suffice to block rays or would that become visible in the picture? Very odd that 16Mbps can't handle fine detail in motion. Why would Sony choose that rate knowing it's not up to the task?

October 14th, 2012, 10:51 AM	#154
Woody Sanford Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Princeton, NC Posts: 161	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV While I'm very happy with the camera so far, it is obvious that there is room for some much needed improvement/advancement of the unit and accessories. The color of the picture is very strong towards blue as it has been mentioned before. I'm starting to believe it could be a lens coating as I'm finding the worst white balance issues have been associated with tungsten light ranges and it pulls a nice blue sky like its polarized the majority of the time. Having something like that fixed in a lens coating will cause limitations where as having it in a filter would allow us to use it or not. I really don't see a filter system as being difficult to produce. It would just take a new front door with a threaded mount. Due to the underwater focus issues, we are in need of a new front door with a flat lens anyway, it could be incorporated in that. Shooting outdoors produces a varying amount of white balance and exposure issues. I think it would be nice if we could lock white balance and gain on certain settings or allow auto rather than just have have the camera adjust as you pass through shadows and such, so we could actually set it for the dominate values of the environment. Something like that should be able to just be a firmware fix. Like I said, I very happy with the camera so far and I'm having a lot of fun with it. The ability to frame up with the WiFi feature is the bomb and why I never really got into these types of cameras when I got the first gopro model. I'm sure Sony isn't done yet and anything they do from this point is just frosting on the cake, so to speak. So I'm hopeful that things will just get better. So far its a very useful tool, just that there is a learning curve as to how you can use it to get footage you can use but any improvements will only expand that for sure.

October 14th, 2012, 11:33 AM	#155
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV I hope you're right about Sony responding to these issues. But what sort of evidence is there that they are really that concerned about a camera so "low" on their feeding chain? A $200 camera isn't going to be a big money-maker so why should they lose sleep over this? My fear is that this is as good as it's going to get. Unless someone knows of firmware issues that were "quickly responded to" in previous consumer-level cameras? And if and when they do respond, is it a behind-the-scenes fix or do they announce it? This is where GoPro has an advantage as a privately owned business with some real faces and names at the top who have to live with their neighbors who probably own a Hero.

October 14th, 2012, 12:51 PM	#157
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV I hope you're right. My concern is that those "grandma and parent" consumers won't care about any of this stuff (blue shift, pixelation). To make matters worse, Sony probably KNOWS they won't care. "So why should we care?" the Sony executives say with a smile at the board meeting.

October 15th, 2012, 03:16 PM	#159
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV This has been a long and very informative discussion. Anybody who's a user willing to take a stab at summing up the Action Cam at this point in time? Seems appropriate at this moment, especially considering a Hero 3 is looming on the horizon (supposedly smaller and lighter and better in low light)...

October 15th, 2012, 07:42 PM	#160
Don Litten Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Richmond Va Posts: 400	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV Lynne, first, I doubt the GP3 is right around the corner. Maybe a year before it's in your hand. Second, it'll be buggy for a long time. To sum up the Sony...it's got some problems. It fogs badly and way over saturates and sharpens the images. The case and mounts need some redesign plus a few personal gripes I have. The good about the Sony is it seems reliable and has much better lowlight images and is extremely handy to get into action. IMO, the best bet right now is still the GoPro HD2 I may sell my Sony!

October 16th, 2012, 06:34 AM	#161
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV That's a rather sobering assessment! Of course, the grass will always greener on the other side of the fence (re: Hero 3). Nevertheless, the Hero will still be shackled with its clumsy "boxy" design and its audio will (likely) be awful. In those two areas the Sony shines. Anybody else care to come to Sony's rescue?

October 16th, 2012, 10:26 AM	#162
Don Litten Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Richmond Va Posts: 400	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV PM Me if you decide you want one Lynn. I'm about ready to part with it.

October 16th, 2012, 10:43 AM	#164
Duane Steiner Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: CA Posts: 195	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV My friend did another video with the Sony on a motorcycle. Johnny5 on a Yamaha R6 - Sony Action Cam - YouTube __________________ www.speedandmotion.com

October 16th, 2012, 11:19 AM	#165
Woody Sanford Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Princeton, NC Posts: 161	Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV Duane, I can hear that same "Rattling" from the vibration in the housing in your motorcycle video that I got in the boat. I went to Ben Franklin craft store and found some thin adhesive backed foam that is much like what Sony puts in the case but just a tad thinner. I cut strips about 1/4" wide and put one on each side towards the front and it took care of the noise and really improved things. The foam is cheap and about 2 bucks for a big sheet. I used the foam as it wouldn't absorb a bunch of extra moisture and add to the fogging issue in humid areas.