Crocolis HD

Tom Hardwick · December 29th, 2011, 11:44 AM

Dave, click on the Techmoan review in post Nr 1 for the bit rates. The GoPro does look better for motion, but 3x better? No.

Ian Newland · December 29th, 2011, 06:26 PM

Techmoan, don't mention bitrates in their text review and i didn't see it on the 25min video but admit i didn't watch it all. But 4 different bitrate reporters i tested all show max 7.5.

Dave, download the original files out of the camera listed on the Techmoan review and see the bitrates and pic quality for yourself.

The GoPro bitrates are all around 15 and reported as constant codec in all video inspectors. For high motion bit rate is very important but even GoPro's 15 is not quite enough, 24 would be excellent, that's what makes the little canon point and shoots like IXUS 110S so good, constant 24mbits per sec bitrate.

I wish Gopro would come out with a camera with bullet type shape, was the first thing i asked for when i visited ceo at GoPro HQ in Aug, 2nd request was exposure lock.

Dave Mercer · December 31st, 2011, 12:20 PM

Thank you gentlemen for the info. Have a great new year (though my sister has reminded me that it's already 2012 in Oz).

Tom Hardwick · January 2nd, 2012, 08:41 AM

And talking of low bit-rates, pause this little film anywhere you like to see the blockiness that this brings to the party. In these days of cheap flash storage,why have a 7.5 mbps rate when you could have 15?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJg7JdWtWWo

Dave Mercer · January 3rd, 2012, 09:02 AM

Good question Tom. If I had an idea how to email the manufacturers of the Crocolis I'd send them a note asking them exactly that.

Panansonic GH1/2 was hacked and sent data rates soaring ... and the camera has become a mainstay of indie filmmaking.

My concern is that I wanted to use the Crocolis for, among other things, some POV footage from a bus drivers helper climbing around one of the "chicken buses" down here in Guatemala. I planned to use it with interviews and other footage filmed with my GH2 and sell to a news channel I do work for. But not sure how bad the POV footage will be when broadcast HD. One good thing is that there'd be so much motion that that'd take away from the quality of the Crocolis vision ...

R Geoff Baker · January 3rd, 2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

And talking of low bit-rates, pause this little film anywhere you like to see the blockiness that this brings to the party. In these days of cheap flash storage,why have a 7.5 mbps rate when you could have 15?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJg7JdWtWWo

I'm locked out of your link -- it says I need permission.

Though I would never put my Crocolis up against a high-end camcorder, or even a modest consumer one for that matter, I haven't encountered 'blockiness' -- I'll link to clip soon as I've shortened one down.

(and QT reports the data rate at 7.5Mb/s, a rate that seems to be fixed)

Cheers,
GB

Tom Hardwick · January 3rd, 2012, 11:34 AM

Sorry Geoff - I see I put up that clip as 'private'. It's now public.

R Geoff Baker · January 3rd, 2012, 12:29 PM

Looking at the clips I've got up on Youtube, I see that if I go to 'edit' under the 'video manager' mode, one of the options I have is to select 'public' or 'private' under the 'privacy' option.

The only clips I have up so far are from my Sony Bloggie, exploring the rather unique 360 angle of view -- the Sony does a decent job but is not an extreme cam by any stretch.

If you are looking at these Bloggie videos, be sure to choose an HD full screen view -- the panorama rather falls apart otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RGeoffBaker/videos

Cheers,
GB

Ian Newland · January 3rd, 2012, 06:21 PM

It suitable for static shots in good light or wide shots with little motion in the foreground, that's about it.

R Geoff Baker · January 3rd, 2012, 08:29 PM

Here is a link to a Crocolis 1080 30p shot -- it is a mixed above & below water shot, with some quick adjustment to the light & some indication of skin tone. Not a bad example of what this camera might be used for. I see far less blockiness in this shot than the other posted, but the other was maybe the hardest test of an encoder -- a random ripple pattern filling the entire frame.

Crocolis_1080_30p_test.MP4 - YouTube

Cheers,
GB

Dave Mercer · January 8th, 2012, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Newland

It suitable for static shots in good light or wide shots with little motion in the foreground, that's about it.

So honestly Ian, how much better is the GP2? Are we talking head and shoulders better (for motion footage)? I'm not thinking pixel peeping here but what the layman might notice.

Thanks a million!

Ian Newland · January 9th, 2012, 06:52 PM

HD1 vs HD2 - As far as the image quality of motion video goes, the biggest difference is the speed and smoothness of the exposure and white balance and the low light performance. Period.

HD1 1080 is sharper than HD2,
HD2 has sharper 720 than HD1

Both are still great cameras.

I won't post the comparison video as this is the crocolis thread, but it is in the other thread.

Dave Mercer · January 12th, 2012, 09:55 AM

Thanks Ian. Good to know how the GP1 and GP2 stack up to each other.

I was also wondering how much sharper the GP is compared to the Crocolis (especially with motion - ie. strapped to the top of someone's head).

Cheers!
Dave

Ian Newland · January 12th, 2012, 07:06 PM

GoPro has the big advantage there with 15mbps vs 7.5mbps, you need plenty of bit-rate for motion recording or the picture breaks up with artifacts etc. Even the Gopro could do with 24mbps to help with this.

Jim Cancil · January 15th, 2012, 11:36 AM

Tom - UK, Thanks for the tip on WD40 lens cap. I also lost mine from the ROAM about an hour after I had it and simply stow the cam in the nice plastic box Contour sent it in.

BTW... the Crocolis is selling for as low as $170 in the US. I bought mine for about $200 from an agent on Ebay - took about 2 weeks to arrive.

Jim

December 29th, 2011, 11:44 AM	#16
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Re: Crocolis HD Dave, click on the Techmoan review in post Nr 1 for the bit rates. The GoPro does look better for motion, but 3x better? No.

December 29th, 2011, 06:26 PM	#17
Ian Newland Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 319	Re: Crocolis HD Techmoan, don't mention bitrates in their text review and i didn't see it on the 25min video but admit i didn't watch it all. But 4 different bitrate reporters i tested all show max 7.5. Dave, download the original files out of the camera listed on the Techmoan review and see the bitrates and pic quality for yourself. The GoPro bitrates are all around 15 and reported as constant codec in all video inspectors. For high motion bit rate is very important but even GoPro's 15 is not quite enough, 24 would be excellent, that's what makes the little canon point and shoots like IXUS 110S so good, constant 24mbits per sec bitrate. I wish Gopro would come out with a camera with bullet type shape, was the first thing i asked for when i visited ceo at GoPro HQ in Aug, 2nd request was exposure lock.

December 31st, 2011, 12:20 PM	#18
Dave Mercer Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Lake Atitlan, Guatemala Posts: 346	Re: Crocolis HD Thank you gentlemen for the info. Have a great new year (though my sister has reminded me that it's already 2012 in Oz).

January 2nd, 2012, 08:41 AM	#19
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Re: Crocolis HD And talking of low bit-rates, pause this little film anywhere you like to see the blockiness that this brings to the party. In these days of cheap flash storage,why have a 7.5 mbps rate when you could have 15? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJg7JdWtWWo

January 3rd, 2012, 09:02 AM	#20
Dave Mercer Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Lake Atitlan, Guatemala Posts: 346	Re: Crocolis HD Good question Tom. If I had an idea how to email the manufacturers of the Crocolis I'd send them a note asking them exactly that. Panansonic GH1/2 was hacked and sent data rates soaring ... and the camera has become a mainstay of indie filmmaking. My concern is that I wanted to use the Crocolis for, among other things, some POV footage from a bus drivers helper climbing around one of the "chicken buses" down here in Guatemala. I planned to use it with interviews and other footage filmed with my GH2 and sell to a news channel I do work for. But not sure how bad the POV footage will be when broadcast HD. One good thing is that there'd be so much motion that that'd take away from the quality of the Crocolis vision ...

January 3rd, 2012, 11:34 AM	#22
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Re: Crocolis HD Sorry Geoff - I see I put up that clip as 'private'. It's now public. Last edited by Tom Hardwick; January 3rd, 2012 at 01:00 PM.

January 3rd, 2012, 12:29 PM	#23
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	Re: Crocolis HD Looking at the clips I've got up on Youtube, I see that if I go to 'edit' under the 'video manager' mode, one of the options I have is to select 'public' or 'private' under the 'privacy' option. The only clips I have up so far are from my Sony Bloggie, exploring the rather unique 360 angle of view -- the Sony does a decent job but is not an extreme cam by any stretch. If you are looking at these Bloggie videos, be sure to choose an HD full screen view -- the panorama rather falls apart otherwise. http://www.youtube.com/user/RGeoffBaker/videos Cheers, GB

January 3rd, 2012, 06:21 PM	#24
Ian Newland Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 319	Re: Crocolis HD It suitable for static shots in good light or wide shots with little motion in the foreground, that's about it.

January 3rd, 2012, 08:29 PM	#25
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	Re: Crocolis HD Here is a link to a Crocolis 1080 30p shot -- it is a mixed above & below water shot, with some quick adjustment to the light & some indication of skin tone. Not a bad example of what this camera might be used for. I see far less blockiness in this shot than the other posted, but the other was maybe the hardest test of an encoder -- a random ripple pattern filling the entire frame. Crocolis_1080_30p_test.MP4 - YouTube Cheers, GB

January 9th, 2012, 06:52 PM	#27
Ian Newland Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 319	Re: Crocolis HD HD1 vs HD2 - As far as the image quality of motion video goes, the biggest difference is the speed and smoothness of the exposure and white balance and the low light performance. Period. HD1 1080 is sharper than HD2, HD2 has sharper 720 than HD1 Both are still great cameras. I won't post the comparison video as this is the crocolis thread, but it is in the other thread.

January 12th, 2012, 09:55 AM	#28
Dave Mercer Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Lake Atitlan, Guatemala Posts: 346	Re: Crocolis HD Thanks Ian. Good to know how the GP1 and GP2 stack up to each other. I was also wondering how much sharper the GP is compared to the Crocolis (especially with motion - ie. strapped to the top of someone's head). Cheers! Dave

January 12th, 2012, 07:06 PM	#29
Ian Newland Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 319	Re: Crocolis HD GoPro has the big advantage there with 15mbps vs 7.5mbps, you need plenty of bit-rate for motion recording or the picture breaks up with artifacts etc. Even the Gopro could do with 24mbps to help with this.

January 15th, 2012, 11:36 AM	#30
Jim Cancil Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Salisbury Maryland Posts: 161	Re: Crocolis HD Tom - UK, Thanks for the tip on WD40 lens cap. I also lost mine from the ROAM about an hour after I had it and simply stow the cam in the nice plastic box Contour sent it in. BTW... the Crocolis is selling for as low as $170 in the US. I bought mine for about $200 from an agent on Ebay - took about 2 weeks to arrive. Jim