small, inexpensive HD camera? at DVinfo.net

Ed Kukla · June 1st, 2010, 07:43 AM

Looking for a small, cheap, HD camera with underwater capability. I really like the HD Hero camera but it has no zoom. I need some zoom range.

Suggestions?

Bill Ward · June 1st, 2010, 02:07 PM

Move the HD Hero closer to the subject? Har har har...I know....

There are two low cost UW kits...an EWA soft bag, and a clear acrylic tube called the "Epic." Each can take a small to medium sized HD palm camera, and allow you to use the zoom; although the tube type is a fix-and-seal-it-up deal, so no in-shoot corrections.

Jonathan Shaw · June 1st, 2010, 04:28 PM

How deep are you going, what are you shooting?

What about a second hand HC3 with housing? Is that still too expensive?

Roger Shealy · June 1st, 2010, 04:59 PM

Ed,

I have an extra Sony HC3 in VG condition and an unused Sony SPK-HCD underwater housing (see below) I can sell for a reasonable price.

Amazon.com: Sony SPK-HCD Waterproof Sports Pack for underwater use with DCR-SR220, 45, 55, 65 Camcorders: Electronics

PM me if you have interest.

Ed Kukla · June 2nd, 2010, 07:36 PM

That housing goes to 17' which would be OK, not great. The camera is DV tape. I really would like to stick with SDHC.

The price of HD Hero is amazing...$300 with housing!

Roger Shealy · June 2nd, 2010, 08:40 PM

Looks like a good option. I hadn't seen that particular device until now, looks promising.

Kin Lau · June 2nd, 2010, 08:50 PM

I have the HD Hero, and it's a great little camera, but it does not have a viewfinder or LCD view screen - only an info one, so framing is going to be tricky, but you could setup a wireframe.

I believe Sanyo has several underwater models.

Alan Melville · June 3rd, 2010, 05:36 AM

Hi Ed,

In amongst my toys I have a GoPro HD. I've just finished a several hundred kilometer ride on which I used it. Whilst I get some good footage occasionally, I'm not yet sold 100% on it. Reasons are;

It struggles with contrast, keeping colours is very hard, if for instance one is moving at speed (read cycling) through a forested area the change from light to shadow causes a lot of blow out. ( over exposure)

One needs to be very selective with the mode. If you're shooting for a larger screen you'll need to shoot in a 16:9 and if you are going to have movement, such as fish, you'll likely need to be in mode R1 (SD) or mode R3 (HD) These are 60FPS modes. I've found if shooting in the R2, R4 & R5 modes, which are 30 FPS, the image is noticeably 'jerky' ie frame separation is noticeable.

The other annoying issue I had was condensate on internal surface of the waterproof housing. This plagued me to the point I couldn't shoot. I was shooting in the rain with ambient temps of 15 C. I eventually found a small sachet of silica, broke it open and poured a small amount into the housing. This raised new issues in that when ejecting the camera to remove and download the card the small balls of silica would get caught in the hinges. It did, however, keep the condensate away......

The unit doesn't have a hell of a lot of glass.....funny that....considering it's size.....so if you're looking for definition in distant objects....good luck.....

If you intend to shoot underwater you may well come up against the problem of having an even wider angle to deal with. This is due to the convex face of the waterproof lens. I believe you'll wind up with one hell of a macro lens! To overcome this you'll need to remove the existing lens and replace it with a flat lens port. I'm happy to stand corrected on this issue, If I were by the sea I'd test it, it's got me intrigued!

Having said all of the above, one is able to get some unique footage with this little camera. :)

My 2c worth.

Al

Paul Cronin · June 3rd, 2010, 08:32 AM

Ed if you have not found anything yet send me an email.

I have a Canon HF10 with Wide Angle and Ikelite housing w/dome port. I used this for a project that just finished. All of my shooting was in a pool. Gear is excellent and I plan on putting up the ad this week.

John Wiley · June 4th, 2010, 01:50 AM

Have you considered a compact stills camera? Several of the panasonics shoot AVCHD lite which I'm sure would be comparable or better than the video from the GoPro HD. Panasonic have Underwater housings for most of their compact cameras which are rated to 40m.

J. Stephen McDonald · June 5th, 2010, 11:53 PM

Shoots HD video and photos underwater and is cheap compared to most gear discussed around here. It is pocket-sized. I know little about its performance. Some users say it's great and others are not so impressed.

Tim Kolb · June 6th, 2010, 08:51 AM

I think that many of us have gotten pretty spoiled. These cameras are so inexpensive, and we are projecting our desires for general acquisition cameras onto these little devices. I have 3 SD GoPros and 2 HD GoPros.

I have some underwater stuff here:

This was in Lake Superior...the wreck is about 20 feet down and the water is too cold to enter without at least a wetsuit, so I clamped two GoPros (SD) to the end of a paint roller extension handle and we just 'hovered' with a typical, small pleasure boat. One took video and the other snapped a still every 5 seconds.

The boat had to keep repositioning for current...and the Z rotation is from drag in the water...I'll have to put some kind of stabilizers if I try this again...

Anyway, if you want a camera with full exposure control and a zoom lens in an underwater housing, I suspect expecting one for 300.00 USD is probably a bit unreasonable.

Ron Chau · June 6th, 2010, 01:08 PM

The GoPro shoots blurry underwater due to the dome port not being designed for true underwater shooting. Some people are making their own flat port modification over the dome port or buying a modification.

If you are going deeper than 10 feet you will need a UW filter to bring back the colors.

If you want to zoom I would take a look at the Panasonic Lumix ZS7 point and shoot camera with housing for around $700. For video shooting you will want to add some kind of handle tray to help keep shots steady.

If you are a little more serious about UW video, look into a dedicated camcorder with an Ikelite housing. A Canon or Sony camcorder with the Ikelite housing will cost you around $1,500.

Bill Ward · June 6th, 2010, 01:33 PM

On the website, the GoPro folks say they are developing a flat port system for underwater video to fix the sharpness issue. Not a lot of help right now, of course...

Alan Melville · June 7th, 2010, 03:55 AM

Tim K,

Not bad, considering it's stuck to the end of a stick. I agree with expecting to much from theses little fella's but they can be good fun.... :)

Al

June 1st, 2010, 07:43 AM	#1
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	small, inexpensive HD camera? Looking for a small, cheap, HD camera with underwater capability. I really like the HD Hero camera but it has no zoom. I need some zoom range. Suggestions?

June 1st, 2010, 04:28 PM	#3
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	How deep are you going, what are you shooting? What about a second hand HC3 with housing? Is that still too expensive? __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

June 1st, 2010, 04:59 PM	#4
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Ed, I have an extra Sony HC3 in VG condition and an unused Sony SPK-HCD underwater housing (see below) I can sell for a reasonable price. Amazon.com: Sony SPK-HCD Waterproof Sports Pack for underwater use with DCR-SR220, 45, 55, 65 Camcorders: Electronics Amazon.com: Sony SPK-HCD Waterproof Sports Pack for underwater use with DCR-SR220, 45, 55, 65 Camcorders: Electronics PM me if you have interest.

June 3rd, 2010, 08:32 AM	#9
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Ed if you have not found anything yet send me an email. I have a Canon HF10 with Wide Angle and Ikelite housing w/dome port. I used this for a project that just finished. All of my shooting was in a pool. Gear is excellent and I plan on putting up the ad this week. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

June 5th, 2010, 11:53 PM	#11
J. Stephen McDonald Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 909	Sony TX5 Shoots HD video and photos underwater and is cheap compared to most gear discussed around here. It is pocket-sized. I know little about its performance. Some users say it's great and others are not so impressed. __________________ Steve McDonald https://onedrive.com/?cid=229807ce52dd4fe0 http://www.flickr.com/photos/22121562@N00/ http://www.vimeo.com/user458315/videos

June 1st, 2010, 02:07 PM	#2
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	Move the HD Hero closer to the subject? Har har har...I know.... There are two low cost UW kits...an EWA soft bag, and a clear acrylic tube called the "Epic." Each can take a small to medium sized HD palm camera, and allow you to use the zoom; although the tube type is a fix-and-seal-it-up deal, so no in-shoot corrections.

June 2nd, 2010, 07:36 PM	#5
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	That housing goes to 17' which would be OK, not great. The camera is DV tape. I really would like to stick with SDHC. The price of HD Hero is amazing...$300 with housing!

June 2nd, 2010, 08:40 PM	#6
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Looks like a good option. I hadn't seen that particular device until now, looks promising.

June 2nd, 2010, 08:50 PM	#7
Kin Lau Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 385	I have the HD Hero, and it's a great little camera, but it does not have a viewfinder or LCD view screen - only an info one, so framing is going to be tricky, but you could setup a wireframe. I believe Sanyo has several underwater models.

June 3rd, 2010, 05:36 AM	#8
Alan Melville Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: No Fixed Address :) Western Australia Posts: 275	Hi Ed, In amongst my toys I have a GoPro HD. I've just finished a several hundred kilometer ride on which I used it. Whilst I get some good footage occasionally, I'm not yet sold 100% on it. Reasons are; It struggles with contrast, keeping colours is very hard, if for instance one is moving at speed (read cycling) through a forested area the change from light to shadow causes a lot of blow out. ( over exposure) One needs to be very selective with the mode. If you're shooting for a larger screen you'll need to shoot in a 16:9 and if you are going to have movement, such as fish, you'll likely need to be in mode R1 (SD) or mode R3 (HD) These are 60FPS modes. I've found if shooting in the R2, R4 & R5 modes, which are 30 FPS, the image is noticeably 'jerky' ie frame separation is noticeable. The other annoying issue I had was condensate on internal surface of the waterproof housing. This plagued me to the point I couldn't shoot. I was shooting in the rain with ambient temps of 15 C. I eventually found a small sachet of silica, broke it open and poured a small amount into the housing. This raised new issues in that when ejecting the camera to remove and download the card the small balls of silica would get caught in the hinges. It did, however, keep the condensate away...... The unit doesn't have a hell of a lot of glass.....funny that....considering it's size.....so if you're looking for definition in distant objects....good luck..... If you intend to shoot underwater you may well come up against the problem of having an even wider angle to deal with. This is due to the convex face of the waterproof lens. I believe you'll wind up with one hell of a macro lens! To overcome this you'll need to remove the existing lens and replace it with a flat lens port. I'm happy to stand corrected on this issue, If I were by the sea I'd test it, it's got me intrigued! Having said all of the above, one is able to get some unique footage with this little camera. :) My 2c worth. Al

June 4th, 2010, 01:50 AM	#10
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Have you considered a compact stills camera? Several of the panasonics shoot AVCHD lite which I'm sure would be comparable or better than the video from the GoPro HD. Panasonic have Underwater housings for most of their compact cameras which are rated to 40m.

June 6th, 2010, 08:51 AM	#12
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	I think that many of us have gotten pretty spoiled. These cameras are so inexpensive, and we are projecting our desires for general acquisition cameras onto these little devices. I have 3 SD GoPros and 2 HD GoPros. I have some underwater stuff here: Lake Superior Shipwreck Footage-GoPro Camera on Vimeo This was in Lake Superior...the wreck is about 20 feet down and the water is too cold to enter without at least a wetsuit, so I clamped two GoPros (SD) to the end of a paint roller extension handle and we just 'hovered' with a typical, small pleasure boat. One took video and the other snapped a still every 5 seconds. The boat had to keep repositioning for current...and the Z rotation is from drag in the water...I'll have to put some kind of stabilizers if I try this again... Anyway, if you want a camera with full exposure control and a zoom lens in an underwater housing, I suspect expecting one for 300.00 USD is probably a bit unreasonable. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions Last edited by Tim Kolb; June 6th, 2010 at 08:57 AM. Reason: typo

June 6th, 2010, 01:08 PM	#13
Ron Chau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: ny, ny Posts: 204	The GoPro shoots blurry underwater due to the dome port not being designed for true underwater shooting. Some people are making their own flat port modification over the dome port or buying a modification. If you are going deeper than 10 feet you will need a UW filter to bring back the colors. If you want to zoom I would take a look at the Panasonic Lumix ZS7 point and shoot camera with housing for around $700. For video shooting you will want to add some kind of handle tray to help keep shots steady. If you are a little more serious about UW video, look into a dedicated camcorder with an Ikelite housing. A Canon or Sony camcorder with the Ikelite housing will cost you around $1,500. __________________ https://www.ronchauphoto.com/

June 6th, 2010, 01:33 PM	#14
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	On the website, the GoPro folks say they are developing a flat port system for underwater video to fix the sharpness issue. Not a lot of help right now, of course...

June 7th, 2010, 03:55 AM	#15
Alan Melville Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: No Fixed Address :) Western Australia Posts: 275	Tim K, Not bad, considering it's stuck to the end of a stick. I agree with expecting to much from theses little fella's but they can be good fun.... :) Al