DV Tape for XL1 or XL1S

Frank Granovski · November 19th, 2003, 08:18 PM

My wife's cousin is a professional photographer and videography, mainly shooting weddings. He also owns a photo shop/studio. He swears by Fuji miniDV for his XL1. So do I.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Arnaldo Paixao · November 20th, 2003, 05:44 AM

Hi Cristoph.

Something is wrong. After 30/35 hours of camera use they change video heads and the tape holding mechanism? Where you experiencing any problems with the camera? If not, I think you were ripped off.

About tapes, I use Panasonic MQ and PQ and have been a happy customer. And I reuse my tapes, wich is considered a bit of a "sin" in the video community.

Best regards,
Arnaldo

Brad Tyrrell · November 20th, 2003, 04:57 PM

I've been taping at LP on Sony tapes for over 3 years on the XL1. - Never had any problem with the speed. I shoot events and really need the 90 minutes. Once in a while something comes up where I need more time and I've used the panasonic 80's. Apparently a big mistake.

There's an event that runs just under 2 hours every spring, - every May I go to the Canon service center shortly after the tape switch. I never connected the two until reading the messages in this forum. Light bulb time. (By-the-way, they charge me a flat $254.40)

Now, I bring my full size deck to the shoot, - fortunately it's tripod time. Just firewire to the 180 min. deck (sometimes I put in a DVCam tape and get an extra hour), not Firestore, but it works. Still have to capture to Premiere.

Oh yeah, I use my mini DVs 5 times for actual events then use them for set ups and misc. At around 15 recordings I dump them.
No problems so far (Well, except for those times after the tape switch.)

Hey, maybe I won't have to hit the service center this year! Nah, I'll probably do the annual $254. just for peace of mind.

Brad Tyrrell

Nick Underwood · December 9th, 2003, 08:27 AM

Ok.....

Another can of worms....

I've searched for this and read peoples' posts....but can't find a definitive answer to the question:
What real difference does using LP over SP have when using Mini DV?

I've used both SP and LP...and I really can't see any/much difference whatsoever...!

Aren't we recording digitally anyway, so therefore the information is still the same...?!

Please help....
I really DON'T understand why I should ALWAYS use SP for recording...!!!!

Thanks

Roger Berry · December 9th, 2003, 03:34 PM

This is not an expert response but I think what you say is more or less right. If everything is working perfectly, there shouldn't be any difference between SP and LP mode.

BUT, given the fact mini DV is so prone to drop outs, artie-facts(sic) and other nasties, why take the risk of making matters even worse by slowing the tape down to get a few extra minutes shooting time on a cassette?

Here's hoping someone who really knows what they're talking about will join this thread.

Ken Tanaka · December 9th, 2003, 03:56 PM

Nick,
As you suggest, DV is a digital, not an analog, medium. The actual recording to the tape is the same series of 1's and 0's in either mode.

However, in LP mode the tape is moving past the heads much more slowly. This means that the footage is recorded on significantly less area of the tape (on a per time unit basis). Hence, there's less room for error recovery.

LP is also not nearly as device compatible as SP. It's common to hear of people unable to play back an LP tape in cameras or decks different from the original recorder, even when the second device is the same brand and model of the recorder.

Bottom lines: (a) tape is relatively inexpensive, (b) your safest bet is to use SP for anything you consider important.

Nick Underwood · December 11th, 2003, 07:53 AM

I know there has been much said about tapes on many threads on many forums, but I'm still faced with a decision that I can't answer myself.

Some of the tapes that have been quoted on threads have referred to tapes that are branded in different Countries to the one I am in...(UK)

My choice is this.

I have a new XL1s, and would like to use SP and LP for various shoots and have seen two brands of tape that I would like to use, and stick with for the life of the camera record heads.

The choice is:

Sony DV Premium 60 mins (red labelled box)
or
Panasonic DVC Linear plus (suitable for LP recording)

The sony tape is primarily a SP tape, and the Panasonic says due to the Linear Plus technology (whatever that is) it is suited well for LP recording.

Any ideas on which one is probably the better one to go for...?!

Thanks

Edward Troxel · December 11th, 2003, 08:44 AM

Personally, I use the Panasonic Master series (both 63 and 83 minute tapes). It's a step UP from the Linear Plus series.

I also avoid LP mode in the camera. I DO use it sometimes on my deck. There's fewer compatibility issues when you stick with SP mode.

Christopher Hughes · December 11th, 2003, 04:35 PM

I use Sonys without any problems. The point is to choose a tape brand and stick with it. If you search the posts on this site theres lots about peoples preference for tapes. Some use Panasonic, others Sony, JVC, Maxell, etc....but whatever tape people use, they all agree not to swap to another brand after using one brand for a long time or you can effect the tape heads.

Just search for the topic there's lots of previous posts on this issue. The tapes in the UK are the same, just packaging slightly different, probably for just most to include more languages explanations for euro market, Panasonic DVM60 have EK on end denote european type, if im correct. Most top tape brands in USA I have seen in UK as well. It just depends where you buy them from as to what make they sell. The Panasonics normally are slighlty cheaper in the UK, than Sony's but only difference in couple of pence.

Dave Morrison · May 6th, 2004, 11:16 AM

The XL1 that I have inherited at my job has always had Sony DVC60 tape used with it. Is it generally not good to switch tape brands once the unit has been used repeatedly with one formulation or brand? What tapes do most of you use and why?

Dave

Chris Hurd · May 6th, 2004, 04:17 PM

Hi Dave,

We have an entire forum dedicated to this very topic: see The Long Black Line.

Dave Morrison · May 6th, 2004, 04:27 PM

Thanks Chris. Apologies to all for starting an obviously overdone thread.

dave

Nathan Gifford · May 7th, 2004, 07:36 AM

After you've read about tape, you might want to check this forum too since it is in the same neighborhood:
Direct-to-Disk (Tapeless) Recording

Rob Ketting · May 17th, 2005, 12:37 PM

I just purchased a XL1s and the previous owner said that he only used panasonic pro tapes in this camera. Does that mean I should continue on using this brand?

is there a big difference in pro quality vs. standard dv tapes, I certainly know the price is?

One last question is it advisable to blankout a tape after use or does it sacrifice the picture quality.

Thanks
Rob.

Henry Cho · May 17th, 2005, 01:09 PM

yes, it is advisable you stay with panasonic tapes. lubricants vary from brand to brand, and when you start mixing different lubricants, a goop will start forming on your heads.

striping a standard 60 minute dv tape is not a problem. i'm not sure about the 90 minute ones, as the actual tape is a bit thinner. maybe someone else can speak to that.

December 9th, 2003, 08:27 AM	#94
Nick Underwood Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Manchester,UK Posts: 62	SP or LP Tape Ok..... Another can of worms.... I've searched for this and read peoples' posts....but can't find a definitive answer to the question: What real difference does using LP over SP have when using Mini DV? I've used both SP and LP...and I really can't see any/much difference whatsoever...! Aren't we recording digitally anyway, so therefore the information is still the same...?! Please help.... I really DON'T understand why I should ALWAYS use SP for recording...!!!! Thanks

December 9th, 2003, 03:34 PM	#95
Roger Berry Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Luton, England. Posts: 35	I'd like to know too This is not an expert response but I think what you say is more or less right. If everything is working perfectly, there shouldn't be any difference between SP and LP mode. BUT, given the fact mini DV is so prone to drop outs, artie-facts(sic) and other nasties, why take the risk of making matters even worse by slowing the tape down to get a few extra minutes shooting time on a cassette? Here's hoping someone who really knows what they're talking about will join this thread. __________________ Old men should rage and burn at close of day

December 9th, 2003, 03:56 PM	#96
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Nick, As you suggest, DV is a digital, not an analog, medium. The actual recording to the tape is the same series of 1's and 0's in either mode. However, in LP mode the tape is moving past the heads much more slowly. This means that the footage is recorded on significantly less area of the tape (on a per time unit basis). Hence, there's less room for error recovery. LP is also not nearly as device compatible as SP. It's common to hear of people unable to play back an LP tape in cameras or decks different from the original recorder, even when the second device is the same brand and model of the recorder. Bottom lines: (a) tape is relatively inexpensive, (b) your safest bet is to use SP for anything you consider important. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 11th, 2003, 07:53 AM	#97
Nick Underwood Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Manchester,UK Posts: 62	Mini DV Tape Choice I know there has been much said about tapes on many threads on many forums, but I'm still faced with a decision that I can't answer myself. Some of the tapes that have been quoted on threads have referred to tapes that are branded in different Countries to the one I am in...(UK) My choice is this. I have a new XL1s, and would like to use SP and LP for various shoots and have seen two brands of tape that I would like to use, and stick with for the life of the camera record heads. The choice is: Sony DV Premium 60 mins (red labelled box) or Panasonic DVC Linear plus (suitable for LP recording) The sony tape is primarily a SP tape, and the Panasonic says due to the Linear Plus technology (whatever that is) it is suited well for LP recording. Any ideas on which one is probably the better one to go for...?! Thanks

May 6th, 2004, 11:16 AM	#100
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Tape brands The XL1 that I have inherited at my job has always had Sony DVC60 tape used with it. Is it generally not good to switch tape brands once the unit has been used repeatedly with one formulation or brand? What tapes do most of you use and why? Dave

November 19th, 2003, 08:18 PM	#91
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	My wife's cousin is a professional photographer and videography, mainly shooting weddings. He also owns a photo shop/studio. He swears by Fuji miniDV for his XL1. So do I. http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

November 20th, 2003, 05:44 AM	#92
Arnaldo Paixao Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vimeiro - Portugal Posts: 255	Hi Cristoph. Something is wrong. After 30/35 hours of camera use they change video heads and the tape holding mechanism? Where you experiencing any problems with the camera? If not, I think you were ripped off. About tapes, I use Panasonic MQ and PQ and have been a happy customer. And I reuse my tapes, wich is considered a bit of a "sin" in the video community. Best regards, Arnaldo

November 20th, 2003, 04:57 PM	#93
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	I've been taping at LP on Sony tapes for over 3 years on the XL1. - Never had any problem with the speed. I shoot events and really need the 90 minutes. Once in a while something comes up where I need more time and I've used the panasonic 80's. Apparently a big mistake. There's an event that runs just under 2 hours every spring, - every May I go to the Canon service center shortly after the tape switch. I never connected the two until reading the messages in this forum. Light bulb time. (By-the-way, they charge me a flat $254.40) Now, I bring my full size deck to the shoot, - fortunately it's tripod time. Just firewire to the 180 min. deck (sometimes I put in a DVCam tape and get an extra hour), not Firestore, but it works. Still have to capture to Premiere. Oh yeah, I use my mini DVs 5 times for actual events then use them for set ups and misc. At around 15 recordings I dump them. No problems so far (Well, except for those times after the tape switch.) Hey, maybe I won't have to hit the service center this year! Nah, I'll probably do the annual $254. just for peace of mind. Brad Tyrrell

December 11th, 2003, 08:44 AM	#98
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Personally, I use the Panasonic Master series (both 63 and 83 minute tapes). It's a step UP from the Linear Plus series. I also avoid LP mode in the camera. I DO use it sometimes on my deck. There's fewer compatibility issues when you stick with SP mode.

December 11th, 2003, 04:35 PM	#99
Christopher Hughes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sunderland, England (y Merida, Mexico) Posts: 269	I use Sonys without any problems. The point is to choose a tape brand and stick with it. If you search the posts on this site theres lots about peoples preference for tapes. Some use Panasonic, others Sony, JVC, Maxell, etc....but whatever tape people use, they all agree not to swap to another brand after using one brand for a long time or you can effect the tape heads. Just search for the topic there's lots of previous posts on this issue. The tapes in the UK are the same, just packaging slightly different, probably for just most to include more languages explanations for euro market, Panasonic DVM60 have EK on end denote european type, if im correct. Most top tape brands in USA I have seen in UK as well. It just depends where you buy them from as to what make they sell. The Panasonics normally are slighlty cheaper in the UK, than Sony's but only difference in couple of pence.

May 6th, 2004, 04:17 PM	#101
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Dave, We have an entire forum dedicated to this very topic: see The Long Black Line. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 6th, 2004, 04:27 PM	#102
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Thanks Chris. Apologies to all for starting an obviously overdone thread. dave

May 7th, 2004, 07:36 AM	#103
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	After you've read about tape, you might want to check this forum too since it is in the same neighborhood: Direct-to-Disk (Tapeless) Recording __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

May 17th, 2005, 12:37 PM	#104
Rob Ketting Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4	dv tape(film) I just purchased a XL1s and the previous owner said that he only used panasonic pro tapes in this camera. Does that mean I should continue on using this brand? is there a big difference in pro quality vs. standard dv tapes, I certainly know the price is? One last question is it advisable to blankout a tape after use or does it sacrifice the picture quality. Thanks Rob.

May 17th, 2005, 01:09 PM	#105
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	yes, it is advisable you stay with panasonic tapes. lubricants vary from brand to brand, and when you start mixing different lubricants, a goop will start forming on your heads. striping a standard 60 minute dv tape is not a problem. i'm not sure about the 90 minute ones, as the actual tape is a bit thinner. maybe someone else can speak to that.