Help with process dubbing HDV to HDCAM at DVinfo.net

Ben Chancey · February 6th, 2006, 02:36 PM

From what I gather, the only way to meet these

TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS

•Programming must be shot and edited on professional HD equipment providing audio and video that meets or exceeds the broadcast standard of HDcam (1080i) or DVC Pro HD (720p) format videotape

is to save the finished product on a hard drive and send it to a dubbing house. I am trying to get all of this straightened out but it is tough. Would it make a difference whether I had a DVCPRO HD HVX Pana or not concerning the conversion to tape. I have not read on DVCPRO HD alot but it seems everything is computer related via P2. How would you go about getting a show on DVCPRO HD tape when using the HVX? Will the HD VTR's read HDV tapes for HD output for viewing a pilot submission to a network or not? Probably not but I thought I would ask you professionals.

Bob Grant · February 6th, 2006, 08:05 PM

Without knowing what you'll be editing on it's a bit hard but all that matters is the codec, if it writes the data to P2 cards or tape it doesn't matter. If you edit in native DVCProHD and render out to DVCProHD and send the file to a dub house that can read your file they should have no dramas printing it to a DVCProHD deck via SDI. The HVX200 writing DVCProHD to P2 isn't HDV by the way.
If you shoot HDV on say the Xl H1 you can also transcode to DVCProHD or HDCAM, there's now a little blue box from Convergent Design that'll let this be done in real time. So you could print to a HDV tape and have a dub house dub that via the blue box to HDCAM or I think even DVCProHD.
It would pay to check which HD format they prefer, all of them can be converted but nicer if you can deliver their native format. Bear in mind though that HDCAM uses much more disk space and needs higher bandwidth than DVCProHD. Also if you're shooting 24p then you need a dub house with CineAlta HDCAM decks and they cost more.

Ben Chancey · February 6th, 2006, 08:27 PM

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the response. I left out a few details because I have been in several different forums on this board asking different questions. I captured all of my footage on HDV with a HVR-Z1U. I do all of my editing in Vegas 6.0c and can covert to YUV on tape print if I need to. I know I read somewhere in Vegas where I can do this. My main question is, is there anyway possible to get that YUV format onto HDCAM tape without spending big money on an HDCAM camera or a 25,000 dollar HDCAM deck? It seems there is no other way. When printing the master tape back to camera can I print it to and HDV tape in HDCAM format for the HDCAM deck to read? Does a HDCAM deck have a place for a mini HD DV cassette? I have done a lot of research but have come up empty on my level of understanding. DSE has made some suggestions and I consider him an expert so I am following his advice and trying to learn more and more.

Regards,
Capt Ben

Nick Hiltgen · February 6th, 2006, 08:59 PM

HDV can't have HDCAM writtne to it, there's no room, and if there was there's no deck that would play HDCAM footage off of an HDV (mini dv) tape.

What I would suggest is master out your HDV footage to your camera in HDV, Then you would be able to convert out of the camera, through an AJA HD10 converter into the HD-SDI input of an HDCAM deck. Then you record the HDV tape off to HDCAM and you have your HDCAM master.

Ben Chancey · February 6th, 2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen

HDV can't have HDCAM writtne to it, there's no room, and if there was there's no deck that would play HDCAM footage off of an HDV (mini dv) tape.]

Nick,
By the above statement you are informing me that there is no way for a network to play an HDV master unless they have the camera or HDV deck.

If that is true which I feared it was, then I better get on the phone and tell them to send it back when they receive it because I sent the wrong package. I thought I may have made a stupid mistake. However I thought maybe there was a chance that HDCAM decks had the ability to dub HDV to HDCAM and play it as a preview as well. Last night I went to bed with a bad feeling about this and tonight just confirmed it.

What I would suggest is master out your HDV footage to your camera in HDV, Then you would be able to convert out of the camera, through an AJA HD10 converter into the HD-SDI input of an HDCAM deck. Then you record the HDV tape off to HDCAM and you have your HDCAM master.

Here is where I am spinning in circles. How would I personally get access to an HDCAM deck. Is there any chance my local NBC affiliate that broadcasts in HD could dub a master for me if I took my camera and master to them?

Bob Grant · February 7th, 2006, 05:07 AM

There's certainly a dub house here in Sydney that can do this however I think they'd only have 50i HDCAM decks. But if you can find anyone with a HDCAM deck then worst case you can play the HDV tape out of a HDV camera or deck and go component into the HDCAM deck.
What we just got is the HD Connect LE from Convergent Design which will go HDV on firewire to HD SDI, should give a better result than going back through analogue component but we're not rich enough to own a HD CAM deck.
What I'd like to do when I'm richer is upgrade my Vegas system to get HD SDI out but the cost of drives and the HD SDI card is rather daunting and I'd still need a deck.

Dave Herring · February 7th, 2006, 06:40 AM

HDV is a great format, but, like a friend of mine, a long time broadcast veteran says... 'Do you really think that Sony would build a $4000 camera to replace a $85,000 camera?'

Nah, if you want to do HD broadcast television with the networks (the big dollar boys), it will have to be native HDCam (or something like it), right now.

Ben Chancey · February 7th, 2006, 08:05 AM

Bob you mean the 63,000 for a deck is a little much for you! LOL I knew the price would be bad but not that bad. Dave do you happen to know of any good dub houses here in FL.

Regards,
Capt Ben

Dave Herring · February 7th, 2006, 11:05 AM

Yep, try JGS in Largo, they can mix most all formats...

www.jgstudio.com

They don't normally do small orders, but explain to them that you are a producer etc...

Ben Chancey · February 7th, 2006, 11:54 AM

Dave thanks for the lead. I just tried them and spoke with a very helpful lady there named Kathy. She directed me to Chris Layhe Associates. I wll be calling them next. I am also looking up EVATONE whom DSE recommended in another thread.

Nick Hiltgen · February 8th, 2006, 04:37 AM

another option is Video Equipment rentals, who has an office in miami I believe, as does bexel. IF you were in L.A. I'd make the copy for you myself.

Ben Chancey · February 9th, 2006, 01:00 PM

Thanks Nick. I appreciate the love.

Regards,
Capt Ben

February 6th, 2006, 02:36 PM	#1
Ben Chancey Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cape Coral, Florida Posts: 76	Help with process dubbing HDV to HDCAM From what I gather, the only way to meet these TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS •Programming must be shot and edited on professional HD equipment providing audio and video that meets or exceeds the broadcast standard of HDcam (1080i) or DVC Pro HD (720p) format videotape is to save the finished product on a hard drive and send it to a dubbing house. I am trying to get all of this straightened out but it is tough. Would it make a difference whether I had a DVCPRO HD HVX Pana or not concerning the conversion to tape. I have not read on DVCPRO HD alot but it seems everything is computer related via P2. How would you go about getting a show on DVCPRO HD tape when using the HVX? Will the HD VTR's read HDV tapes for HD output for viewing a pilot submission to a network or not? Probably not but I thought I would ask you professionals. __________________ "Chew On This Saltwater Fishing Show" Fishing Television with Intensity

February 6th, 2006, 08:27 PM	#3
Ben Chancey Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cape Coral, Florida Posts: 76	Hey Bob, Thanks for the response. I left out a few details because I have been in several different forums on this board asking different questions. I captured all of my footage on HDV with a HVR-Z1U. I do all of my editing in Vegas 6.0c and can covert to YUV on tape print if I need to. I know I read somewhere in Vegas where I can do this. My main question is, is there anyway possible to get that YUV format onto HDCAM tape without spending big money on an HDCAM camera or a 25,000 dollar HDCAM deck? It seems there is no other way. When printing the master tape back to camera can I print it to and HDV tape in HDCAM format for the HDCAM deck to read? Does a HDCAM deck have a place for a mini HD DV cassette? I have done a lot of research but have come up empty on my level of understanding. DSE has made some suggestions and I consider him an expert so I am following his advice and trying to learn more and more. Regards, Capt Ben __________________ "Chew On This Saltwater Fishing Show" Fishing Television with Intensity

February 6th, 2006, 08:59 PM	#4
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	HDV can't have HDCAM writtne to it, there's no room, and if there was there's no deck that would play HDCAM footage off of an HDV (mini dv) tape. What I would suggest is master out your HDV footage to your camera in HDV, Then you would be able to convert out of the camera, through an AJA HD10 converter into the HD-SDI input of an HDCAM deck. Then you record the HDV tape off to HDCAM and you have your HDCAM master. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

February 7th, 2006, 08:05 AM	#8
Ben Chancey Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cape Coral, Florida Posts: 76	Bob you mean the 63,000 for a deck is a little much for you! LOL I knew the price would be bad but not that bad. Dave do you happen to know of any good dub houses here in FL. Regards, Capt Ben __________________ "Chew On This Saltwater Fishing Show" Fishing Television with Intensity

February 7th, 2006, 11:54 AM	#10
Ben Chancey Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cape Coral, Florida Posts: 76	Dave thanks for the lead. I just tried them and spoke with a very helpful lady there named Kathy. She directed me to Chris Layhe Associates. I wll be calling them next. I am also looking up EVATONE whom DSE recommended in another thread. __________________ "Chew On This Saltwater Fishing Show" Fishing Television with Intensity

February 6th, 2006, 08:05 PM	#2
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Without knowing what you'll be editing on it's a bit hard but all that matters is the codec, if it writes the data to P2 cards or tape it doesn't matter. If you edit in native DVCProHD and render out to DVCProHD and send the file to a dub house that can read your file they should have no dramas printing it to a DVCProHD deck via SDI. The HVX200 writing DVCProHD to P2 isn't HDV by the way. If you shoot HDV on say the Xl H1 you can also transcode to DVCProHD or HDCAM, there's now a little blue box from Convergent Design that'll let this be done in real time. So you could print to a HDV tape and have a dub house dub that via the blue box to HDCAM or I think even DVCProHD. It would pay to check which HD format they prefer, all of them can be converted but nicer if you can deliver their native format. Bear in mind though that HDCAM uses much more disk space and needs higher bandwidth than DVCProHD. Also if you're shooting 24p then you need a dub house with CineAlta HDCAM decks and they cost more.

February 7th, 2006, 05:07 AM	#6
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	There's certainly a dub house here in Sydney that can do this however I think they'd only have 50i HDCAM decks. But if you can find anyone with a HDCAM deck then worst case you can play the HDV tape out of a HDV camera or deck and go component into the HDCAM deck. What we just got is the HD Connect LE from Convergent Design which will go HDV on firewire to HD SDI, should give a better result than going back through analogue component but we're not rich enough to own a HD CAM deck. What I'd like to do when I'm richer is upgrade my Vegas system to get HD SDI out but the cost of drives and the HD SDI card is rather daunting and I'd still need a deck.

February 7th, 2006, 06:40 AM	#7
Dave Herring Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indian Rocks Beach, Florida Posts: 67	HDV is a great format, but, like a friend of mine, a long time broadcast veteran says... 'Do you really think that Sony would build a $4000 camera to replace a $85,000 camera?' Nah, if you want to do HD broadcast television with the networks (the big dollar boys), it will have to be native HDCam (or something like it), right now.

February 7th, 2006, 11:05 AM	#9
Dave Herring Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indian Rocks Beach, Florida Posts: 67	Yep, try JGS in Largo, they can mix most all formats... www.jgstudio.com They don't normally do small orders, but explain to them that you are a producer etc...

February 8th, 2006, 04:37 AM	#11
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	another option is Video Equipment rentals, who has an office in miami I believe, as does bexel. IF you were in L.A. I'd make the copy for you myself. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

February 9th, 2006, 01:00 PM	#12
Ben Chancey Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cape Coral, Florida Posts: 76	Thanks Nick. I appreciate the love. Regards, Capt Ben __________________ "Chew On This Saltwater Fishing Show" Fishing Television with Intensity