digital8 video with hdmi output

[Zigi Putnins]

I have been looking for a digital8/hi8 camcorder with a hdmi output (similar to the canon hv30 for dvc).

I have not been able to find one and was wondering
1. does such a thing exist?
2. if not, why? looking back in time, it seems that hdmi was around at the time of digital8.

tyia!

Zigi

[Patrick Tracy]

I know of no such thing, and I just spent the last couple of months shopping for a D8 camcorder to use for transfers. I do have a list of them that can read Hi8 tapes.

I connect it with Firewire, for which I installed a PCIe card with Firewire 400 and 800 ports. It also comes in handy for connecting Alesis HD24 drives etc.

[Donald McPherson]

I tried to add my firewire to my windows 10 PC but I could not get the it working with my ADS capture box.
Could you explain a bit about your setup. Thankyou. I am considering looking for an old PC with Windows XP as I have a Minolta 35mm slide capture and an old scanner that will work with Grandads old 2" negatives.

[Paul R Johnson]

8mm was a long time ago now. All the ones I’ve seen at best had Y/C, and was HDMI not introduced with the invention of HD, 8mm was in the SD days?

[Patrick Tracy]

Originally Posted by Donald McPherson

I tried to add my firewire to my windows 10 PC but I could not get the it working with my ADS capture box.
Could you explain a bit about your setup. Thankyou. I am considering looking for an old PC with Windows XP as I have a Minolta 35mm slide capture and an old scanner that will work with Grandads old 2" negatives.

I'm using a Vantec 2+1 800/400 PCIe card (UGT-FW210). As I understand it, some FW chipsets are compatible with given hardware and some aren't, so you really have to dig to find out whether a card will work with what you have. I think it mostly comes down to which chipset the card uses. For example, my card uses the Texas Instruments XIO2213. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there are OS compatibility issues with older hardware such as your capture card.

[Zigi Putnins]

I still have my pc with my firewire card and cable. XP i think. captured quite a bit with that. have to fire it up to see if it still works.

I have seen hit/miss with win10 in other forums as well.

Alternative is to use svideo but i have found that the svideo seems to be a bit darker than the composite. Maybe the "darker" is part of the wider dyamic range,but the black seems to get crushed.

[Patrick Tracy]

Originally Posted by Zigi Putnins

Alternative is to use svideo but i have found that the svideo seems to be a bit darker than the composite. Maybe the "darker" is part of the wider dyamic range,but the black seems to get crushed.

One Hi8 camcorder I bought had an output that was really dark whether using Y/C or composite. It was unusable because a lot of my old videos were shot in poor light. I managed to find a working Digital8 camcorder that reads Hi8, digitizes it internally and sends it through the Firewire. It does mean I'm limited to that codec, but it seems to be a decent compromise.

[Don Palomaki]

D8 format is essentially a MiniDV SD digital signal stream recorded on Hi8/8mm video tape. The normal way to ingest it into a PC was via an IEEE1394 (aka Firewire or iLink). Composite video output could be used to copy it to a VHS VCR, S-VIDEO output to a S-VHS tape, A problem with D8 was that many camcorders had essentially Video8 camera heads and did not provide the full DV quality potential.

Microsoft and others pretty much abandon IEEE1394 years ago with the advent of full HD and the move from use of tape media; thus support in Windows has weakened. (I can't speak to Apple.)

FWIW: it is not unusual to need to install the so called "legacy" IEEE1394 driver when using Win7 and newer versions of Windows with some gear. The "legacy" driver was distributed (but not installed) with Win 7. However, it was not distributed with Win 8 or 10 - one has to download it and install it. The Win 8 driver works with Win10.

Many, BUT NOT ALL, D8 camcorders can playback Video8/Hi8 tapes. YOU have to check the specs to be sure.

When digitizing old analog tapes, whether VHS, S-VHS, Hi8, 8mm, or Beta, best results are usually obtained using a player/VCR with a built-in TBC. An external frame TBC may also be needed depending on the quality of the player and the tape being played.

Capturing 8mm/Hi8 video from a D8 player via IEEE1394 output can give quick digitization and often provides acceptable results depending on your objectives. But DV is a lossy compression format and the results with noisy source video can be disappointing. The purists often prefer to capture a S-VIDEO (Y/C) stream using a good capture card to a lossless format for video restoration.

Light/dark output can reflect poor adjustment of the original video recorder, issues with the playback unit, issues with the setup such as mismatched impedances, or issues with the capture card and its settings.

In general S-VIDEO (Y/C) is better than composite. The video on tape is recorded as separate Y and C signals. The composite output combines the signal, and the digitizer device has to separate them again. With modest cost gear this added processing cuts resolution, adds noise and artifacts. This loss is generally more noticeable with Hi8 and S-VHS sources.

Some people use a DVD recorder with analog and IEEE1394 inputs as a pass-thru to provide HDMI output streams

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Don Palomaki

Microsoft and others pretty much abandon IEEE1394 years ago with the advent of full HD and the move from use of tape media; thus support in Windows has weakened. (I can't speak to Apple.)

On the Mac, one solution is to find an older computer that still has a firewire (1394) interface. The 2012 Mini is a good choice for this, I still have mine and use it with a Sony DVCAM/HDV deck to capture my old tapes.

As you go through the years, Apple switched from firewire Thunderbolt 1 interfaces - the 2012 Mini is still interesting, because it contains one of each. Around 2014 they switched to Thunderbolt 2, which is backward compatible. Apple still sells a firewire to Thunderbolt 2 adapter that works with no special drivers.

New Macs have Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports and you can buy another adapter to daisy-chain with the old one to connect firewire devices. Again, no drivers should be needed, however you will need to find software that supports firewire capture. AFAIK, Final Cut Pro still does (have not tried recently) but there's another thread here that suggests iMovie does not. I can't confirm that, and was surprised to hear it.

[Mervyn Jack]

As previously said, I don't believe there is any D8/Hi8 device with HDMI output.
You need to capture the video in real time from the playback device, usually via ieee1394/iLink/Firewire connection to your computer.
Windows 10 DOES work with most iEEE1394 cards/chips, despite what a lot of forum comments might say and I have been guilty of one of those... here's my story.

I have a Sony DCR-TR355 camera for playback, the DCR-TR345/355/356 all playback Hi8 as well.
I also have a Canon DV camera for miniDV capturing, don't remember the model.
These Sony cameras have a built in TBC, time base corrector, which can be turned off/on in the menu.
Both my camera's also allow for A/V input from other sources, like VHS player, via the A/V input with S-Video input overriding the video on the A/V input for better quality.

I used to capture on my old P4 windows XP machine but wanted to move on from it and setup a used i7 with built in ieee1394 running windows 10.
For the life of me, I could not get it to recognise the cameras. I purchased 2 different chipset IEEE1394 cards and new cables, but still no good.
I did test it on a laptop with Ubuntu and it recognised the camera, but I could not get capturing sorted out. I then blamed Windows 10 and went to town on some MS forum somewhere...... but....

Eventually I did resolve the problem, I had a faulty firewire cable AND a faulty intermittent (mostly faulty) connector on the Sony camera. I kept using the faulty cable on the Canon camera and it wasn't until I used a new cable on the Sony and Windows went 'Bling' I realised the camera was faulty. Some testing with new cables on the Canon showed the computer and Windows was recognising it.
I bought some new connectors from China and did some microsurgery on the camera and all is fixed.

Importantly, I tested all the iEEE1394 cards on 2 different computers running windows 10 and they all worked.

I also can capture with Pinnacle studio (old version) Magix Vegas (has a stand alone .exe for capture) and a free capture program, I think is called DVcapture or similar.

[Paul R Johnson]

I sympathise as I’ve had these two fault red herring issues myself. In the U K we also have the additional problem that for historic reasons our domestic camcorders don’t have inputs, so our connection options are more limited.

[Mervyn Jack]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

In the U K we also have the additional problem that for historic reasons our domestic camcorders don’t have inputs, so our connection options are more limited.

I'm confused why you would say that.
According to the manual for the DCR-TRV356, the 'E' versions of the Sony models I mention certainly do have A/V/S-Video inputs as well as outputs.
They also have TBC on/off and A/V input to DV output routing.

[Derek Heeps]

Originally Posted by Zigi Putnins

I have been looking for a digital8/hi8 camcorder with a hdmi output (similar to the canon hv30 for dvc).

I have not been able to find one and was wondering
1. does such a thing exist?
2. if not, why? looking back in time, it seems that hdmi was around at the time of digital8.

tyia!

Zigi

they use Firewire 400

[Derek Heeps]

Originally Posted by Mervyn Jack

I'm confused why you would say that.
According to the manual for the DCR-TRV356, the 'E' versions of the Sony models I mention certainly do have A/V/S-Video inputs as well as outputs.
They also have TBC on/off and A/V input to DV output routing.

That was correct - at one point , due to EU rules , any device with video input was taxed as a video recorder , hence UK models had the video input disabled in software . My first DV camcorder , a DV-1000 was so disabled , but my Sony dealer re-enabled it for a small fee . this was commonplace at the time . This was on the Firewire connector .

As for Firewire , all Macs of the period supported it .

[Paul R Johnson]

They're older than HDMI - which didn't get released til 2002. Digital 8 was released before that - 3 years or so, so the first ones were before HDMI had been invented, and of course the format had very limited lifespan. There were a few with HDMI towards the end of the life of Digital8 I think.