Three tapes, Three dropouts!!! at DVinfo.net

Peter Manojlovic · May 27th, 2010, 09:59 PM

So i'm taping the cake cutting with a fresh tape...
I get home, and 10 seconds are missing from the cake cut...

I loaded a tape yesterday, ran about 20 seconds of bar, and i get about three seconds of dropout..
Just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, i loaded a tape tonight, and got another 2 seconds missing..

It seems to be the first 20 seconds are critical..Is there anyway to test if my heads, or tape transport aren't out of whack, or should i accept the fact that there's a possible bad batch of tapes...

I'm shooting Canon XH A1, with Panasonic 63minute AMQ's.

Perrone Ford · May 28th, 2010, 06:30 AM

Not saying you don't have a head issue, or a bad batch of tapes, but there is a VERY good reason for the 1 minute pre-roll on tape that no one seems to follow any more. Print bars and tone at the head of every tape. One minute worth.

Not sure if this would have affected your cake cutting or not.

Adam Gold · May 28th, 2010, 05:20 PM

I do the same thing. I can't figure out why everyone doesn't do this.

Peter Manojlovic · May 29th, 2010, 11:54 PM

Yes....
I've started giving about twenty seconds, but perhaps i should take Perrone's advice...
I'll let you know if anymore tapes are corrupt....

Jamie Deas · June 5th, 2010, 02:42 PM

I am recording DVCAM on to Sony's premium Mini DV tapes - 60min tape = 40mins footage.

I'm using a Sony DSR-130, for recording and playback. I have experienced a ridiculous number of dropouts only on one tape, mainly in the audio. It's particularly bad at the end of tapes and in between shots when the camera has been turned off.

The heads probably need cleaning, though I am worried it may be something much more serious. Any Ideas? It may be just the way I am using it but still odd none the less.

Andrew Smith · June 6th, 2010, 05:22 PM

10 seconds of tape dropout really does seem a bit abnormal, especially since you are using decent tapes.

Are you able to put some time in to trying to replicate the problem on a different tape? It may seem a lot of unnecessary work, but it's better than running in to the problem again on your next paying job.

Andrew

D.J. Ammons · June 9th, 2010, 10:28 PM

When I purchased my two Sony V1U's a couple of years ago I first went with Panny DV tapes as they seemed to have the best user reviews on forums at the time. The first dozen or so I used were fine but then I ran into a batch with a few dropouts but nothing like you experienced. It would just be a blip lasting 15 frames or so to maybe one second. I got online and found out that others had been suddenly experiencing problems with Panny DV tapes. Upon further research found out that a whole lot of people were having excellent results with the standard Sony DV tapes that only cost about $2.25 each online. I have been using those the past year or so without any incidence of dropouts that I can think of.

I am glad I read this thread and was reminded it is a good thing to put bars and tones for a minute at the beginning of each tape for a variety of reasons including missing possible bad tape right at the beginning.

Andrew Smith · June 10th, 2010, 12:24 AM

I've certainly noticed that if I'm going to get a head clog, it will be at the beginning of a tape - usually the cheap DV tapes (I only use Sony). One of the reasons why I have moved up a notch to only use Sony blues or better.

There's something magical about the first 30 seconds of a tape. On the other hand, there's something comparatively cool about being able to drop a tape and not lose any of your data. :-)

Andrew

D.J. Ammons · June 10th, 2010, 11:05 AM

Andrew, what do you mean by "Sony blues"? The Sony DV tapes I use come in a blue wrapper. Is that what you mean? If so I didn't know Sony made any less expensive / lower priced ones than these.

Andrew Smith · June 10th, 2010, 09:16 PM

Rather than rattle off some product code, I'll just post the following images:

Andrew

Bruce Rawlings · June 11th, 2010, 01:25 AM

You really should take it for granted that the first minute of a tape is a no go area as far as reliability is concerned. The old convention of 1 minute of bars is for good reason. Still once it has happened to you the future looks bright.

Dean Sensui · June 12th, 2010, 03:41 AM

I know this might come off sounding insensitive, but it's from the heart.

As soon as you can afford it, switch to tapeless media.

Since I started shooting on solid state media (Sony SxS) at the beginning of 2008, I haven't experienced a single glitch. Prior to that I was shooting on P2. Same thing.

It's brought peace of mind, if nothing else. My only concerns now are the usual: Is it in frame and in focus? Did I start the camera in time? Are the audio levels OK?

Mary Hagopian · June 16th, 2010, 11:33 AM

This may seem obvious, but did you try cleaning your heads? I would consider sending the camera in to a repair center for insepction.

Romuald Martin · June 18th, 2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Not saying you don't have a head issue, or a bad batch of tapes, but there is a VERY good reason for the 1 minute pre-roll on tape that no one seems to follow any more. Print bars and tone at the head of every tape. One minute worth.

Not sure if this would have affected your cake cutting or not.

Nailed! The other reason left may be a defective tape or camera.

Beginning and end of tapes usually receive a lot of damage from FF and RWD (listen to the accelerating sound of some VTRs when approaching those points).
Many years ago we used to FF-RWD the whole tape if it was new and had been in storage for a long time. I recall some Maxwell Betacam that if you didn't do that got an ugly bunch of intermittent small drop-outs throughout the recording.

Follow the advice of going tapeless.

Peter Manojlovic · June 24th, 2010, 07:10 PM

Alrighty....

Another cake cut and same issue....
This time with another camera...

I'm going to dig a bit deeper...Perhaps call up Panasonic directly?

May 27th, 2010, 09:59 PM	#1
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Three tapes, Three dropouts!!! So i'm taping the cake cutting with a fresh tape... I get home, and 10 seconds are missing from the cake cut... I loaded a tape yesterday, ran about 20 seconds of bar, and i get about three seconds of dropout.. Just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, i loaded a tape tonight, and got another 2 seconds missing.. It seems to be the first 20 seconds are critical..Is there anyway to test if my heads, or tape transport aren't out of whack, or should i accept the fact that there's a possible bad batch of tapes... I'm shooting Canon XH A1, with Panasonic 63minute AMQ's.

May 28th, 2010, 06:30 AM	#2
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Not saying you don't have a head issue, or a bad batch of tapes, but there is a VERY good reason for the 1 minute pre-roll on tape that no one seems to follow any more. Print bars and tone at the head of every tape. One minute worth. Not sure if this would have affected your cake cutting or not. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

May 28th, 2010, 05:20 PM	#3
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I do the same thing. I can't figure out why everyone doesn't do this. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

June 5th, 2010, 02:42 PM	#5
Jamie Deas New Boot Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 5	I am recording DVCAM on to Sony's premium Mini DV tapes - 60min tape = 40mins footage. I'm using a Sony DSR-130, for recording and playback. I have experienced a ridiculous number of dropouts only on one tape, mainly in the audio. It's particularly bad at the end of tapes and in between shots when the camera has been turned off. The heads probably need cleaning, though I am worried it may be something much more serious. Any Ideas? It may be just the way I am using it but still odd none the less. __________________ Jamie Deas - Freelance Cameraman

June 10th, 2010, 09:16 PM	#10
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,061	Rather than rattle off some product code, I'll just post the following images: Andrew Attached Thumbnails

May 29th, 2010, 11:54 PM	#4
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Yes.... I've started giving about twenty seconds, but perhaps i should take Perrone's advice... I'll let you know if anymore tapes are corrupt....

June 6th, 2010, 05:22 PM	#6
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,061	10 seconds of tape dropout really does seem a bit abnormal, especially since you are using decent tapes. Are you able to put some time in to trying to replicate the problem on a different tape? It may seem a lot of unnecessary work, but it's better than running in to the problem again on your next paying job. Andrew

June 9th, 2010, 10:28 PM	#7
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	When I purchased my two Sony V1U's a couple of years ago I first went with Panny DV tapes as they seemed to have the best user reviews on forums at the time. The first dozen or so I used were fine but then I ran into a batch with a few dropouts but nothing like you experienced. It would just be a blip lasting 15 frames or so to maybe one second. I got online and found out that others had been suddenly experiencing problems with Panny DV tapes. Upon further research found out that a whole lot of people were having excellent results with the standard Sony DV tapes that only cost about $2.25 each online. I have been using those the past year or so without any incidence of dropouts that I can think of. I am glad I read this thread and was reminded it is a good thing to put bars and tones for a minute at the beginning of each tape for a variety of reasons including missing possible bad tape right at the beginning.

June 10th, 2010, 12:24 AM	#8
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,061	I've certainly noticed that if I'm going to get a head clog, it will be at the beginning of a tape - usually the cheap DV tapes (I only use Sony). One of the reasons why I have moved up a notch to only use Sony blues or better. There's something magical about the first 30 seconds of a tape. On the other hand, there's something comparatively cool about being able to drop a tape and not lose any of your data. :-) Andrew

June 10th, 2010, 11:05 AM	#9
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	Andrew, what do you mean by "Sony blues"? The Sony DV tapes I use come in a blue wrapper. Is that what you mean? If so I didn't know Sony made any less expensive / lower priced ones than these.

June 11th, 2010, 01:25 AM	#11
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	You really should take it for granted that the first minute of a tape is a no go area as far as reliability is concerned. The old convention of 1 minute of bars is for good reason. Still once it has happened to you the future looks bright.

June 12th, 2010, 03:41 AM	#12
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	I know this might come off sounding insensitive, but it's from the heart. As soon as you can afford it, switch to tapeless media. Since I started shooting on solid state media (Sony SxS) at the beginning of 2008, I haven't experienced a single glitch. Prior to that I was shooting on P2. Same thing. It's brought peace of mind, if nothing else. My only concerns now are the usual: Is it in frame and in focus? Did I start the camera in time? Are the audio levels OK? __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

June 16th, 2010, 11:33 AM	#13
Mary Hagopian Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 36	This may seem obvious, but did you try cleaning your heads? I would consider sending the camera in to a repair center for insepction.

June 24th, 2010, 07:10 PM	#15
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Alrighty.... Another cake cut and same issue.... This time with another camera... I'm going to dig a bit deeper...Perhaps call up Panasonic directly?