The Gigantic Mini DV Deck / Camcorder as Deck Thread

Marty Hudzik · October 3rd, 2004, 09:15 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : The best solution (though the costliest) is to purchase a mini DV deck. Decks are much more robust, generally treat the tapes better, and will last the longest and require the least service. The camera would be my second choice unless you have many hundreds of hours of footage to log and capture. Using a cheap camera as a capture device is somewhat more problematic. I've heard of capture issues, mostly related to dropped frames, with cheap mini Dv cameras. Cameras are very slow to go to in and out points and place more stress on the tapes. -->>>

While I agree with most of what you said I use a Panasonic PV-DV910 Palmcorder to capture my footage. I never do jog shuttle and scene searches though...I always just capture the entire tape. I do my rewinding and fast fowrarding in a dedicated rewinder unit.

When I had my DVX100 I would use it quite often as a deck to review or capture tapes. When I went to sell it on EBAY I got a ton of email asking about how many hours were on the heads.

Well I know I only shot 30-40 1 hours tapes on it but the head time showed 160+ hours. This turned some people off from buying it.

Now I don't know if the XL2 keeps track of the head time but I am now inclined "not" to use it for a deck unless it is absolutely unavoidable.

Jeff Donald · October 3rd, 2004, 09:22 PM

XL2 does not have a user addressable hours counter. Canon service may be able to access the hours, but they do not disclose that information. I worry more about my tapes and the images and sounds they represent, than cameras. Cameras are tools, they are going to depreciate, break and at some point most end up in a landfill. What is important is the images and sounds they record. I do everything possible to protect the tape and insure the best possible image is used in the edit.

Jos Svendsen · October 4th, 2004, 12:50 PM

I have a cheap JVC camcorder that I use as a deck. But I use Screenalyzer to dump the whole tape in one go. I have a 250 Gig drive especially for that. So my tapes will get recorded on once, and played back once - well maybe twice.

The JVC gets a cleaning tape every ten tapes, and so far I've had no problems at all. This saves my Canon for wear and tear, and the quality is of course perfect.

Since I can get 3 cheap camcorders for the price of one deck I find this the the most cost effective solution. Especially taken the cost per megabyte of a big firewire drive. And I find it a lot easier to preview the clips, when they are on a harddisk, than have a deck to wind/rewind to compare two clips.

Kenneth Irvine · October 4th, 2004, 08:55 PM

Thanks very much for the quick feedback folks.

Since I can't really afford a dv deck, I will try the ZR80 and let eveyone know how it goes.

Ken

David Levine · October 5th, 2004, 03:59 AM

Me personally, I am using my gl1 as a playback deck
as Its still under a service plan Im not really worried about wearing out the heads as it can be repaired or replaced as needed by the plan. So far no problems with dropped frames or broken tapes.
evem adding another 5 years to the service plan it seems cheaper then buying a deck

Glen Elliott · October 21st, 2004, 01:02 PM

I've been using a cheap Sony TRV-33 to capture my DV and DVCAM recordings from my PD-170 and VX2100's. From time to time I get a dropout or two. I've heard a possible cause is capturing it in a camera that didn't originally record it- the reason being a possible tracking error beings the tape transport varies from camera to camera.

I've heard DV Decks (like the DSR-11 for example) are less prone to this and are quite lenient in regards to tape tracking, etc. The DSR-11, however, is quite an investment at $1,600.

What are the benefits of using a DV Deck over my current set-up of using a cheap DV camera to "act" as a deck. How rugged really are the heads and the tape transport on a DV Deck compared to a DV Camera? ...Is it worth the investment?

Giroud Francois · October 21st, 2004, 05:32 PM

if your concern is drop out, the best would be to suppress the root cause (tape).
for 800$ you can get a box that record DV to harddisk.
no tape problem and no tape to disk transfer (while you can still record on tape just in case).
That is what i have done , not because drop problems, but because a sell my old vx9000 (big DV tape, up to 4 hours of recording) and i need something to record at least 2 hours non-stop with my vx2000.

Matt Irwin · October 25th, 2004, 11:12 AM

If you have some money, a DV Deck is an excellent investment. The heads in a camera are not designed to be used for extensive playback. A deck IS designed for that, so yes, the heads and transport are much more rugged than those on a camera.

For what it's worth, I know a guy who went on a Log-and-Capture binge with about 40 tapes from a doc shoot using not but a cheap Canon. Around tape #30, smoke began to come out of the camera.

Paul Juhn · October 27th, 2004, 03:22 AM

Hi,
I do regulary edit our church's sermon and chorus with 2 XM2's(equivalent to GL2).
I am looking for a mini-DV deck for this purpose with Premiere Pro1.5 which is very very easy to use.
Any suggestions?
Or I do not need it? - I am worrying about shortening the camera's head life as well as tape mechanism.

Thanks in Advance!

Paul Juhn

Darko Flajpan · October 27th, 2004, 03:26 AM

Well, you'll find DV decks are pretty expensive. If you can pay off DV deck with your work - go for it. In other case cheap DV camera will be very good for transfer to computer. I am using that solution without any problems. It's still cheaper than new heads on my XM2.

David Lau · October 27th, 2004, 04:00 AM

http://www.streetprices.com/Electronics/Consumer/VCR/Multi_System/SP828882.html

XM2? Assuming that you are in the UK? Check this out this I think is the 3rd gen of this deck. JVC make this deck is really good, I have used the last 2 generations. They where good. Preview and download from DV and output to SVHS or VHS. Its prefect and its much cheaper than any offering from the other companies.

Paul Juhn · October 27th, 2004, 04:21 AM

Actually I am in Australia...
As darko suggested, cheap MiniDv camera can be a solution but would there be a video quality loss or not?
Since it is all digital, there should not be any quality loss... I maybe wrong..
Thanks anyway... good advice !

Paul J.

Peter Jefferson · October 27th, 2004, 06:13 AM

hmmm... cameras are ok to use, but from my expereince with people doin ghtis, usually the heads die out pretty quickly when compared to a dedicated unit.

The sony GD-V1000 is a nice lil unit with a 4' LCD screen which also doubles as a small reference monitor. Its a portable device and does what it says it does quite well. You'll notice that the heads on these units are a lil more robust than a cheap handycam..

at the moment the price of these re about $2700 AUD (im a supplier and thats a discounted rate.. ) they usually go for $3100 AUD RRP as its a consumer unit...

heres a link to some info from a NZ site
http://www.dvt.co.nz/index.php/ps_pagename/productdetail/pi_productid/464

Paul Juhn · October 27th, 2004, 07:10 AM

What's lil? Please educate me...

What about JVC SR-VS30E - the quoted price is Au$2134.00

I do not need VHS conversion though.

Is Sony GD-V1000 is robust? I mean the tape mechanism and head?
Can I buy it from you?

Thanks!

Paul

Rob Henegar · October 27th, 2004, 08:56 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Juhn : What's lil? Please educate me... -->>>

I think he means "little"

October 3rd, 2004, 09:22 PM	#317
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	XL2 does not have a user addressable hours counter. Canon service may be able to access the hours, but they do not disclose that information. I worry more about my tapes and the images and sounds they represent, than cameras. Cameras are tools, they are going to depreciate, break and at some point most end up in a landfill. What is important is the images and sounds they record. I do everything possible to protect the tape and insure the best possible image is used in the edit. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 4th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#318
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	Back to topic. I have a cheap JVC camcorder that I use as a deck. But I use Screenalyzer to dump the whole tape in one go. I have a 250 Gig drive especially for that. So my tapes will get recorded on once, and played back once - well maybe twice. The JVC gets a cleaning tape every ten tapes, and so far I've had no problems at all. This saves my Canon for wear and tear, and the quality is of course perfect. Since I can get 3 cheap camcorders for the price of one deck I find this the the most cost effective solution. Especially taken the cost per megabyte of a big firewire drive. And I find it a lot easier to preview the clips, when they are on a harddisk, than have a deck to wind/rewind to compare two clips. __________________ ---------------------------- 12c41 JOS. Svendsen

October 5th, 2004, 03:59 AM	#320
David Levine New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 20	gl1 as playback Me personally, I am using my gl1 as a playback deck as Its still under a service plan Im not really worried about wearing out the heads as it can be repaired or replaced as needed by the plan. So far no problems with dropped frames or broken tapes. evem adding another 5 years to the service plan it seems cheaper then buying a deck

October 21st, 2004, 01:02 PM	#321
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Is a DV Deck a good investment? I've been using a cheap Sony TRV-33 to capture my DV and DVCAM recordings from my PD-170 and VX2100's. From time to time I get a dropout or two. I've heard a possible cause is capturing it in a camera that didn't originally record it- the reason being a possible tracking error beings the tape transport varies from camera to camera. I've heard DV Decks (like the DSR-11 for example) are less prone to this and are quite lenient in regards to tape tracking, etc. The DSR-11, however, is quite an investment at $1,600. What are the benefits of using a DV Deck over my current set-up of using a cheap DV camera to "act" as a deck. How rugged really are the heads and the tape transport on a DV Deck compared to a DV Camera? ...Is it worth the investment?

October 25th, 2004, 11:12 AM	#323
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	If you have some money, a DV Deck is an excellent investment. The heads in a camera are not designed to be used for extensive playback. A deck IS designed for that, so yes, the heads and transport are much more rugged than those on a camera. For what it's worth, I know a guy who went on a Log-and-Capture binge with about 40 tapes from a doc shoot using not but a cheap Canon. Around tape #30, smoke began to come out of the camera. __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

October 3rd, 2004, 09:15 PM	#316
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : The best solution (though the costliest) is to purchase a mini DV deck. Decks are much more robust, generally treat the tapes better, and will last the longest and require the least service. The camera would be my second choice unless you have many hundreds of hours of footage to log and capture. Using a cheap camera as a capture device is somewhat more problematic. I've heard of capture issues, mostly related to dropped frames, with cheap mini Dv cameras. Cameras are very slow to go to in and out points and place more stress on the tapes. -->>> While I agree with most of what you said I use a Panasonic PV-DV910 Palmcorder to capture my footage. I never do jog shuttle and scene searches though...I always just capture the entire tape. I do my rewinding and fast fowrarding in a dedicated rewinder unit. When I had my DVX100 I would use it quite often as a deck to review or capture tapes. When I went to sell it on EBAY I got a ton of email asking about how many hours were on the heads. Well I know I only shot 30-40 1 hours tapes on it but the head time showed 160+ hours. This turned some people off from buying it. Now I don't know if the XL2 keeps track of the head time but I am now inclined "not" to use it for a deck unless it is absolutely unavoidable.

October 4th, 2004, 08:55 PM	#319
Kenneth Irvine New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 23	Thanks very much for the quick feedback folks. Since I can't really afford a dv deck, I will try the ZR80 and let eveyone know how it goes. Ken

October 21st, 2004, 05:32 PM	#322
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	if your concern is drop out, the best would be to suppress the root cause (tape). for 800$ you can get a box that record DV to harddisk. no tape problem and no tape to disk transfer (while you can still record on tape just in case). That is what i have done , not because drop problems, but because a sell my old vx9000 (big DV tape, up to 4 hours of recording) and i need something to record at least 2 hours non-stop with my vx2000.

October 27th, 2004, 03:22 AM	#324
Paul Juhn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 10	Which mini-DV deck? Hi, I do regulary edit our church's sermon and chorus with 2 XM2's(equivalent to GL2). I am looking for a mini-DV deck for this purpose with Premiere Pro1.5 which is very very easy to use. Any suggestions? Or I do not need it? - I am worrying about shortening the camera's head life as well as tape mechanism. Thanks in Advance! Paul Juhn __________________ PJ

October 27th, 2004, 03:26 AM	#325
Darko Flajpan Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bjelovar, Croatia Posts: 153	Well, you'll find DV decks are pretty expensive. If you can pay off DV deck with your work - go for it. In other case cheap DV camera will be very good for transfer to computer. I am using that solution without any problems. It's still cheaper than new heads on my XM2. __________________ XM2 Sony DXC637P BetaSP

October 27th, 2004, 04:00 AM	#326
David Lau New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 19	Mini & SVHS deck http://www.streetprices.com/Electronics/Consumer/VCR/Multi_System/SP828882.html XM2? Assuming that you are in the UK? Check this out this I think is the 3rd gen of this deck. JVC make this deck is really good, I have used the last 2 generations. They where good. Preview and download from DV and output to SVHS or VHS. Its prefect and its much cheaper than any offering from the other companies.

October 27th, 2004, 04:21 AM	#327
Paul Juhn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 10	Actually I am in Australia... As darko suggested, cheap MiniDv camera can be a solution but would there be a video quality loss or not? Since it is all digital, there should not be any quality loss... I maybe wrong.. Thanks anyway... good advice ! Paul J. __________________ PJ

October 27th, 2004, 06:13 AM	#328
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	hmmm... cameras are ok to use, but from my expereince with people doin ghtis, usually the heads die out pretty quickly when compared to a dedicated unit. The sony GD-V1000 is a nice lil unit with a 4' LCD screen which also doubles as a small reference monitor. Its a portable device and does what it says it does quite well. You'll notice that the heads on these units are a lil more robust than a cheap handycam.. at the moment the price of these re about $2700 AUD (im a supplier and thats a discounted rate.. ) they usually go for $3100 AUD RRP as its a consumer unit... heres a link to some info from a NZ site http://www.dvt.co.nz/index.php/ps_pagename/productdetail/pi_productid/464

October 27th, 2004, 07:10 AM	#329
Paul Juhn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 10	lil What's lil? Please educate me... What about JVC SR-VS30E - the quoted price is Au$2134.00 I do not need VHS conversion though. Is Sony GD-V1000 is robust? I mean the tape mechanism and head? Can I buy it from you? Thanks! Paul __________________ PJ

October 27th, 2004, 08:56 AM	#330
Rob Henegar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 33	Re: lil <<<-- Originally posted by Paul Juhn : What's lil? Please educate me... -->>> I think he means "little"