The Gigantic Mini DV Deck / Camcorder as Deck Thread

Mike Rehmus · October 13th, 2003, 09:58 PM

You don't get much for $1500 in DV these days.

Are you sure you can live with a 1 hour tape load?

For recording purposes, the decks don't need genlock. If you need to play one back to your switcher for B-roll, why don't you dig out an old TBC and run it through that? That's what I do in the local college control room. Works very nicely. Since I had the TBC, it was a lot cheaper than purchasing a big deck.

These small transports don't have the kind of control you experienced with the BetaSP decks. So you might want to try some hands-on before you buy. BetaSP-quality deck control (fast response to operator input) means an expensive deck from what I've seen.

James Emory · October 14th, 2003, 02:41 AM

The only decks that I know of that use the DV transports are the DVC Pro line from Panasonic. But get ready to spend some money. They do have the jog/shuttle wheels though.

Josh King · October 16th, 2003, 12:50 AM

Thanks for the suggestions!

Rob: DV is considered broadcast quality if you have broadcast sources. You're right about the camera; if the camera is a "cheap" Canon ZR20, then the footage captured on there isn't going to be very high quality (due to the single small CCD and the small, medium quality optics). However, if we take a Panasonic AG-DVC200 or even the AG-DVX100, then the quality could be considered broadcast quality, due to the higher quality lenses (Leica or Fujion) and the larger, triple CCD.

Mike: 1 hour is fine (we only broadcast for 5 minutes in the morning for the school news), but if we needed to we could go to "large-format" DV, which has running times of up to 276 minutes. I need to double-check on the Genlock, because our Betacam SP units complain like crazy if we try to record to them without Genlock. One option we're considering is using a TBC with a few JVC BR-DV3000U units. They don't have the jog-dial or genlock, but the TBC would be able to compensate for the lack of genlock.

James: We aren't ready or willing to spend the money on a DVCProLine VTR, but it would definitely satisfy our needs (except for low-cost ;) ).

I'd just like to thank you all for looking at this thread and contributing. Thanks!

Jeff Donald · October 16th, 2003, 06:13 AM

You don't need genlock on the decks per se if the signal isn't going to be mixed with other video signals. Genlock allows the use of black burst or some other version of House Sync to be used to sync all the other decks together and devices (DVE, Special Effects Gen, Chyron etc.). If the signal is run through a TBC, as Mike suggests, it can be synced to other signals via the Genlock on the TBC.

James Emory · October 16th, 2003, 07:03 AM

I switch 4 XLs with a Panasonic MX-50 switcher with internal sync. Decks can be substituted for the sources as well. Simply plug either a composite or Y/C connector into the switcher and that's it! I mix to a Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck that uses mini and full size DV cassettes. This is all plug and play, affordable and space friendly for what you can do with it compared to using seperate TBCs for each source.

Dan Lahav · November 12th, 2003, 12:28 PM

I found a really good price for this dvcam online (299) and decided to grab it. I'll be using it primarily to transfer footage from my DVX100. Now I know most of you are going to say that this camera isnt built to do this type of work, but is there anyone who actually tried using this camera (or any other similar JVC product for that matter) for this type of work? How did it do? Thanks.

Chris Hurd · November 13th, 2003, 06:58 AM

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using a cheap camcorder as a feeder deck. In fact, we have a number of threads on this topic. A lot of folks like using the Canon ZR40 or ZR60. I don't see why your JVC wouldn't fill the bill -- go for it!

George Brackett III · November 14th, 2003, 06:04 AM

The JVC will work great as a deck...as far as DV qualities, chroma keying doesn't seem to work right with video taken with the JVC. Video shot with my GL2 and fed to NLE via JVC works fine....

Ed Parker · December 30th, 2003, 11:56 AM

I currently shoot with an XL1 and when I complete my editing I create a master on a SVHS deck. I would like to record directly to my XL1 so as to make a better quality master. I have read the XL1 manual and can't seem to find out how to do it and would appreciate some advice and help.

I am able to make a master on my Sony digital 8, simply by setting it on VCR and recording off of the editing bay and would like to do the same with the XL1.

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

Rob Lohman · January 1st, 2004, 11:31 AM

Do you want to record from an analog source or from your
computer over firewire? The first is only possible on the XL1S
(the later model!) if you put it in VCR mode (you can't do this
if a firewire cable is connected!!).

The second is possible if you play from the timeline or do a
print-to-tape from your NLE application (you might need to
hit record on your XL1 which again must be in VCR mode).

Nicholi Brossia · January 9th, 2004, 12:17 AM

I've been watching and reading the threads for quite some time now regarding Final Cut Pro 4 and Express (now version 2) compatibility with the JVC SR-VS30U dual deck vcr (mini-dv and s-vhs). Many people were having tedious issues with this deck, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it works for a minute then quits, etc. After a while it was basically accepted that they weren't compatible and the subject was dropped.
Today, I was told by a professor that the bugs had been worked out and Final Cut now controlled the deck flawlessly. I didn't get to actually see it in action, so I don't know what to think. Has anyone had any positive experience with this deck and current versions of Final Cut Pro and/or Express?

Mike Rinkunas · January 27th, 2004, 02:42 PM

Hey everyone,

Things are starting to pick up here, so its time to purchase a DV deck for capturing, playback, etc instead of killing my XL1s

I'm currently torn between panasonic's AG-DV2500 and JVC's BR-DV3000U.

Which one is a better bang for the buck considering they are roughly the same price? Has anyone had any good or bad experiences with either deck?

Please let me know
~Mike

P.S. does any one know of any places that offers student discounts on these products? (i'm gonna try to milk the student thing while i still have it considering what i have paid to be a college student!!!!!)

Gints Klimanis · January 27th, 2004, 03:40 PM

$1999.95 list price for the AG-DV2500 for capture and playback?
If you don't need the additional tape formats, get a used or even new cheepie miniDV camcorder. You'll love the portability,
LCD screen and audio monitoring.

Mike Rinkunas · January 27th, 2004, 04:23 PM

True, i could get a small camera for that purpose, i'd rather invest in a true VTR. At the moment, i can find these models in a 1300-1500 price range

I know in the future i want to offer to work in DV in addition to Mini-DV which those models can handle (even DV-CAM playback & Capture)

Also what is the lifespan for the heads on elcheapo cameras? ie would i end up using 2-3 cameras over the same time as the dedicated deck?

~Mike

Jason Brooks · February 5th, 2004, 09:18 AM

I have seen these on ebay for less than $200. I am looking for a cheap cam in order to save the heads on my VX2100. I did a search on the JVC and only came up with three threads that did not fully address my question. So... Have any of you used this cam as a transfer deck and if so how do you like it? If not, then what cam do you use for transfer only?

October 13th, 2003, 09:58 PM	#226
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	You don't get much for $1500 in DV these days. Are you sure you can live with a 1 hour tape load? For recording purposes, the decks don't need genlock. If you need to play one back to your switcher for B-roll, why don't you dig out an old TBC and run it through that? That's what I do in the local college control room. Works very nicely. Since I had the TBC, it was a lot cheaper than purchasing a big deck. These small transports don't have the kind of control you experienced with the BetaSP decks. So you might want to try some hands-on before you buy. BetaSP-quality deck control (fast response to operator input) means an expensive deck from what I've seen. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 14th, 2003, 02:41 AM	#227
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	DV type Decks with pro controls The only decks that I know of that use the DV transports are the DVC Pro line from Panasonic. But get ready to spend some money. They do have the jog/shuttle wheels though.

October 16th, 2003, 12:50 AM	#228
Josh King New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Irvine, CA, USA Posts: 11	Thanks for the suggestions! Rob: DV is considered broadcast quality if you have broadcast sources. You're right about the camera; if the camera is a "cheap" Canon ZR20, then the footage captured on there isn't going to be very high quality (due to the single small CCD and the small, medium quality optics). However, if we take a Panasonic AG-DVC200 or even the AG-DVX100, then the quality could be considered broadcast quality, due to the higher quality lenses (Leica or Fujion) and the larger, triple CCD. Mike: 1 hour is fine (we only broadcast for 5 minutes in the morning for the school news), but if we needed to we could go to "large-format" DV, which has running times of up to 276 minutes. I need to double-check on the Genlock, because our Betacam SP units complain like crazy if we try to record to them without Genlock. One option we're considering is using a TBC with a few JVC BR-DV3000U units. They don't have the jog-dial or genlock, but the TBC would be able to compensate for the lack of genlock. James: We aren't ready or willing to spend the money on a DVCProLine VTR, but it would definitely satisfy our needs (except for low-cost ;) ). I'd just like to thank you all for looking at this thread and contributing. Thanks! __________________ Eagle Television News Daily

October 16th, 2003, 06:13 AM	#229
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	You don't need genlock on the decks per se if the signal isn't going to be mixed with other video signals. Genlock allows the use of black burst or some other version of House Sync to be used to sync all the other decks together and devices (DVE, Special Effects Gen, Chyron etc.). If the signal is run through a TBC, as Mike suggests, it can be synced to other signals via the Genlock on the TBC. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 16th, 2003, 07:03 AM	#230
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Switching without TBCs I switch 4 XLs with a Panasonic MX-50 switcher with internal sync. Decks can be substituted for the sources as well. Simply plug either a composite or Y/C connector into the switcher and that's it! I mix to a Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck that uses mini and full size DV cassettes. This is all plug and play, affordable and space friendly for what you can do with it compared to using seperate TBCs for each source.

November 12th, 2003, 12:28 PM	#231
Dan Lahav Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CA Posts: 172	JVC GR-D30 DVcam as deck? I found a really good price for this dvcam online (299) and decided to grab it. I'll be using it primarily to transfer footage from my DVX100. Now I know most of you are going to say that this camera isnt built to do this type of work, but is there anyone who actually tried using this camera (or any other similar JVC product for that matter) for this type of work? How did it do? Thanks.

November 13th, 2003, 06:58 AM	#232
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,370 Images: 513	There's absolutely nothing wrong with using a cheap camcorder as a feeder deck. In fact, we have a number of threads on this topic. A lot of folks like using the Canon ZR40 or ZR60. I don't see why your JVC wouldn't fill the bill -- go for it! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 14th, 2003, 06:04 AM	#233
George Brackett III Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Waterville, NY USA Posts: 83	The JVC will work great as a deck...as far as DV qualities, chroma keying doesn't seem to work right with video taken with the JVC. Video shot with my GL2 and fed to NLE via JVC works fine.... __________________ If the quality of mercy is not strained, then how do they get the lumps out?

December 30th, 2003, 11:56 AM	#234
Ed Parker Tourist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Bernardino, CA Posts: 1	deck recording to an XL1 I currently shoot with an XL1 and when I complete my editing I create a master on a SVHS deck. I would like to record directly to my XL1 so as to make a better quality master. I have read the XL1 manual and can't seem to find out how to do it and would appreciate some advice and help. I am able to make a master on my Sony digital 8, simply by setting it on VCR and recording off of the editing bay and would like to do the same with the XL1. Thanks in advance for your time and consideration. __________________ Ed Parker

January 1st, 2004, 11:31 AM	#235
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Do you want to record from an analog source or from your computer over firewire? The first is only possible on the XL1S (the later model!) if you put it in VCR mode (you can't do this if a firewire cable is connected!!). The second is possible if you play from the timeline or do a print-to-tape from your NLE application (you might need to hit record on your XL1 which again must be in VCR mode). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 9th, 2004, 12:17 AM	#236
Nicholi Brossia Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 389	Final Cut deck I've been watching and reading the threads for quite some time now regarding Final Cut Pro 4 and Express (now version 2) compatibility with the JVC SR-VS30U dual deck vcr (mini-dv and s-vhs). Many people were having tedious issues with this deck, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it works for a minute then quits, etc. After a while it was basically accepted that they weren't compatible and the subject was dropped. Today, I was told by a professor that the bugs had been worked out and Final Cut now controlled the deck flawlessly. I didn't get to actually see it in action, so I don't know what to think. Has anyone had any positive experience with this deck and current versions of Final Cut Pro and/or Express? __________________ Nicholi Brossia

January 27th, 2004, 02:42 PM	#237
Mike Rinkunas Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 134	Dv deck comparsion Hey everyone, Things are starting to pick up here, so its time to purchase a DV deck for capturing, playback, etc instead of killing my XL1s I'm currently torn between panasonic's AG-DV2500 and JVC's BR-DV3000U. Which one is a better bang for the buck considering they are roughly the same price? Has anyone had any good or bad experiences with either deck? Please let me know ~Mike P.S. does any one know of any places that offers student discounts on these products? (i'm gonna try to milk the student thing while i still have it considering what i have paid to be a college student!!!!!)

January 27th, 2004, 03:40 PM	#238
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	$1999.95 list price for the AG-DV2500 for capture and playback? If you don't need the additional tape formats, get a used or even new cheepie miniDV camcorder. You'll love the portability, LCD screen and audio monitoring.

January 27th, 2004, 04:23 PM	#239
Mike Rinkunas Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 134	True, i could get a small camera for that purpose, i'd rather invest in a true VTR. At the moment, i can find these models in a 1300-1500 price range I know in the future i want to offer to work in DV in addition to Mini-DV which those models can handle (even DV-CAM playback & Capture) Also what is the lifespan for the heads on elcheapo cameras? ie would i end up using 2-3 cameras over the same time as the dedicated deck? ~Mike

February 5th, 2004, 09:18 AM	#240
Jason Brooks New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 14	JVC GR-D30u as a transfer cam/deck? I have seen these on ebay for less than $200. I am looking for a cheap cam in order to save the heads on my VX2100. I did a search on the JVC and only came up with three threads that did not fully address my question. So... Have any of you used this cam as a transfer deck and if so how do you like it? If not, then what cam do you use for transfer only?