The long black line. . .of FILTHY LIES! at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · July 28th, 2004, 12:13 PM

seriously though, why do the manufacturers, as well as our beloved camcorders, lie to us?

I'm recording some stuff on tape yesterday, using up the end of the tape (so I think), and though it's on a 63 minute tape (so it says), I actually rolls right into 01:04:00:00, and then right onto into 01:05:00:00. There could even be another minute after THAT! Has the world gone topsy turvy? I've noticed this at work too. . .where we use the AWESOME Digital S format. The tapes are usually called "64 minutes", "84 minutes," etc, yet they'll roll a full two and a half or so minutes longer than that.

So, gentlemen (and women), what's the reasoning behind this deception and trickery?

I have three theories:

1) Protecting human beings from themselves. I.e, we're stupid monkeys, and if we see that we've got 66 minutes of tape, we'll go right to the end, hope there's more, so instead, they put 63 minutes, and lo and behold, there IS more!

2) Making human beings feel like they're getting away with something "What, I got me 66 minutes when it only said 63? Looks I stole me three minutes of tape from Sony/Panasonic/Fuji. Down with the man! I got away with stealing extra minutes!"

3) Making us believe in a higher power. You're getting something really life changing, and amazing, but you've got 4 seconds of tape left (says your camera). But then, it JUST KEEPS RIGHT ON ROLLING! For a minute. . .then another minute. . .and bang! You've got your prize-winning footage. It must have been God! Where did those extra minutes come from? Why, they were Heaven-sent! Someone should see if Sony/Panasonic/Fuji etc. is affiliated with the Church or any other religious organization.

Boyd Ostroff · July 28th, 2004, 02:27 PM

I always thought it meant there would be a minimum of 63 usuable minutes of tape on the reel, meaning that the beginning and end might not be quite up to spec. In reality I'll bet it has more to do with the fact that their equipment can't measure the length too precisely at whatever high speed they load the reels...

Dennis Vogel · July 29th, 2004, 01:16 PM

I think Boyd has it. The cost of machinery that would dispense 63 minutes and only 63 minutes every time would far exceed the cost of the waste tape. But, you can be certain of this: as soon as you count on that extra minute or so, you'll get a tape that's exactly 63 minutes. If you look closely, you'll see it was made by someone named Murphy.

Dennis Vogel

Josh Bass · July 29th, 2004, 01:28 PM

I don't like Murphy. He screws up my life.

I think there should be a little asterisk on the tape case/box after the 63, that indicates there's footnote. When you look at the footnote, it says "Could be 64, 65, 65:20. . .only you can find out!"

Sort of make an adventure out of it, you know?

Alex Filacchione · March 16th, 2005, 04:44 PM

It's always been like this. Audio tapes had the same thing. At one point I had a really nice audio casette deck that would display the amount of time remaining on the tape.

I don't know exactly how it worked. There was a dial for the 15, 30, 45, 90, 120 tape setting. So I would set it to 90, which should give 45 mins/side. I would put the tape into the deck. Didn't matter if it was rewound or in the middle of the tape. It would then tell me how much time was left on the tape, down to the second. I don't think it was ever more than maybe 5 seconds off!

I would put in one tape at the beginning, and after a few seconds it would display something like 48:35 remaining. I would then stop the tape, and put in another one, and it would say something like 46:22 remaining.

I was never able to fool the tape deck, and it was ALWAYS right within about 5 seconds or so! Pretty cool. Haven't seen that on any other tape deck. The deck was from the early/mid 80's I can't even remember the brand, but it was a major name brand (like JVC or AIWA or something).

Alex F

Christopher C. Murphy · March 16th, 2005, 04:59 PM

Hey Josh, have I screwed up your life since then???

Try living with Murphy 24/7 brother!

Josh Bass · March 16th, 2005, 07:19 PM

You're not that Murphy, I don't think.

Jimmy McKenzie · March 16th, 2005, 07:40 PM

...somebody please move this thread to area 51. It really deserves to be there...

...yes I have a sense of humour ...

I just thought I'd pre-answer your question.

July 28th, 2004, 12:13 PM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	The long black line. . .of FILTHY LIES! seriously though, why do the manufacturers, as well as our beloved camcorders, lie to us? I'm recording some stuff on tape yesterday, using up the end of the tape (so I think), and though it's on a 63 minute tape (so it says), I actually rolls right into 01:04:00:00, and then right onto into 01:05:00:00. There could even be another minute after THAT! Has the world gone topsy turvy? I've noticed this at work too. . .where we use the AWESOME Digital S format. The tapes are usually called "64 minutes", "84 minutes," etc, yet they'll roll a full two and a half or so minutes longer than that. So, gentlemen (and women), what's the reasoning behind this deception and trickery? I have three theories: 1) Protecting human beings from themselves. I.e, we're stupid monkeys, and if we see that we've got 66 minutes of tape, we'll go right to the end, hope there's more, so instead, they put 63 minutes, and lo and behold, there IS more! 2) Making human beings feel like they're getting away with something "What, I got me 66 minutes when it only said 63? Looks I stole me three minutes of tape from Sony/Panasonic/Fuji. Down with the man! I got away with stealing extra minutes!" 3) Making us believe in a higher power. You're getting something really life changing, and amazing, but you've got 4 seconds of tape left (says your camera). But then, it JUST KEEPS RIGHT ON ROLLING! For a minute. . .then another minute. . .and bang! You've got your prize-winning footage. It must have been God! Where did those extra minutes come from? Why, they were Heaven-sent! Someone should see if Sony/Panasonic/Fuji etc. is affiliated with the Church or any other religious organization. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 29th, 2004, 01:28 PM	#4
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	I don't like Murphy. He screws up my life. I think there should be a little asterisk on the tape case/box after the 63, that indicates there's footnote. When you look at the footnote, it says "Could be 64, 65, 65:20. . .only you can find out!" Sort of make an adventure out of it, you know? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

March 16th, 2005, 04:59 PM	#6
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Hey Josh, have I screwed up your life since then??? Try living with Murphy 24/7 brother! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

March 16th, 2005, 07:19 PM	#7
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	You're not that Murphy, I don't think. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 28th, 2004, 02:27 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,800	I always thought it meant there would be a minimum of 63 usuable minutes of tape on the reel, meaning that the beginning and end might not be quite up to spec. In reality I'll bet it has more to do with the fact that their equipment can't measure the length too precisely at whatever high speed they load the reels...

July 29th, 2004, 01:16 PM	#3
Dennis Vogel Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 409	I think Boyd has it. The cost of machinery that would dispense 63 minutes and only 63 minutes every time would far exceed the cost of the waste tape. But, you can be certain of this: as soon as you count on that extra minute or so, you'll get a tape that's exactly 63 minutes. If you look closely, you'll see it was made by someone named Murphy. Dennis Vogel

March 16th, 2005, 04:44 PM	#5
Alex Filacchione Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 129	It's always been like this. Audio tapes had the same thing. At one point I had a really nice audio casette deck that would display the amount of time remaining on the tape. I don't know exactly how it worked. There was a dial for the 15, 30, 45, 90, 120 tape setting. So I would set it to 90, which should give 45 mins/side. I would put the tape into the deck. Didn't matter if it was rewound or in the middle of the tape. It would then tell me how much time was left on the tape, down to the second. I don't think it was ever more than maybe 5 seconds off! I would put in one tape at the beginning, and after a few seconds it would display something like 48:35 remaining. I would then stop the tape, and put in another one, and it would say something like 46:22 remaining. I was never able to fool the tape deck, and it was ALWAYS right within about 5 seconds or so! Pretty cool. Haven't seen that on any other tape deck. The deck was from the early/mid 80's I can't even remember the brand, but it was a major name brand (like JVC or AIWA or something). Alex F

March 16th, 2005, 07:40 PM	#8
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	...somebody please move this thread to area 51. It really deserves to be there... ...yes I have a sense of humour ... I just thought I'd pre-answer your question.